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SJ_Sailer

Economy at T8 is [edited]

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Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

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Maybe you were unlucky, did you run economy flags? Camo with credit bonus? Premium consumables? Credits I believe are largely based on damage so if you had a low damage game and ran expensive consumables then maybe.  I probably lose money in a match about once a month if that so not sure why you had this problem.  T10 are good credit makers unfortunately so you can play them badly and still make money.  Also premium time helps a lot if you run it.

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lol, get used to it...   I have won a T10 game and scored in the top 3 of the scoreboard and still lost credits.

This is partly due to WG wanting you to buy premium time and perma cammo so that they make some cash and partly due to the stupid way rewards are earned.

If you want to earn huge credits you should just farm damage and hope you team earns you the win.

 

tl/dr - more damage = more rewards (both credits and xp)

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19 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

 

3 minutes ago, Squib_Surefire said:

lol, get used to it...   I have won a T10 game and scored in the top 3 of the scoreboard and still lost credits.

This is partly due to WG wanting you to buy premium time and perma cammo so that they make some cash and partly due to the stupid way rewards are earned.

If you want to earn huge credits you should just farm damage and hope you team earns you the win.

 

tl/dr - more damage = more rewards (both credits and xp)

Sounds to me like you two guys don't have premium accounts.  

Squib, you should know, given your pretty decent battle count and because you imply this knowledge, that WG incentivizes having premium accounts by having increasing service costs in the highest tiers (i.e. tier 8+).  Or you can play 2-3 battles in the mid tiers to pay for a high tier battle.

SJ_Sailer, if you want to consistently turn a profit in high tier battles, you need a premium account or you need to be spectacularly good and produce great games with regularity.  Or,  as I said before, you play 2-3 mid tier battles to pay for a single high tier battle (and the losses that come with it).

You guys may think that this is a stupid economic model, but it's the way WG's always done it, both in WoWS and WoT.  And I seriously doubt that it's going to change any time soon. 

 

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The Hipper has three premium consumable slots at 22500 each, service cost of ship per game offset by either premium time, high damage, economy flags, ship camo permanent or temporary.  So plenty of ways to make money, a Hipper in a T10 match is a tough game so a more cautious damage dealing approach wouldn't be unexpected.  I also agree with Crucis but in addition to that you have crates which give camo/signals and lots of rewards so just use them intelligently.

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21 minutes ago, Crucis said:

You guys may think that this is a stupid economic model, but it's the way WG's always done it, both in WoWS and WoT.  And I seriously doubt that it's going to change any time soon.

It is a way to turn a profit, true. It is also a way to force player to continue playing lower tier.

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I find profit in running T8 and T9 premiums.

I don't buy them with $$, mind you (see sig below), but I have award, coal and free XP ships at those levels, and I almost always profit. I have 2 T10 boats with less than 50 games in the both of them...

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

Got any screenshots of the final screens so we can dissect what happened?

 

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

Are you running premium consumables?

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Current directives offer permacamo for US heavy cruisers T6-9 and French cruisers T6-9. Look for everything else this game offers you and take it where you can.

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

I found the same problem when I 1st reach T8. I stopped playing T8 and built up my commander points & credits. I also picked up a lot of camos & signals as well. At Christmas the 360 day premium was half price & became my Christmas present. All these things made it possible to come out ahead in most battles where I run a T8 ship. 

I see you have  just over 1500 battles. If you're anything like I was at 1500 battles you don't have many credits, camos or signals yet.

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Funny. I was just thinking about how much T8 pays off more than it used too. I get massive scores when bottom tier. I'm sorry but "4th from the bottom" isn't exactly what I'd call middle of the pack either that's the "I was carried" zone so maybe not the best example lol... If you're not a premium account player and use premium consumables (which you should be, especially in a higher tier cruiser) then you really need to perform above average to make money. That's the way it's always been, in fact it used to be worse. Run premium time and/or perform above average or expect to lose money, you'll have to fund your high tier ships with low tier ships. Just the way it works.

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I've noticed too since they did the adjustments where if you are lower tier you get more credits for damaging/killing higher tier boat. Problem is it doesn't seem like they adjusted the lower tier boat to go up, I think they nerfed everything else down to make it seem that way. I'm running same camos and flags I was before the change, definitely noticed a decrease in earnings except those matches where I'm tier 8 shooting at tier 10 boats.

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2 hours ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Seriously:  I just won a game in a T8 Hipper, T10 battle of course, was middle of the pack, 4th from the bottom, all but 2 enemy ships destroyed and I LOST credits.

Why would anyone play higher tiers if this is how you are rewarded.  I changed my mind on pursuing a T10 ship which will make many in the upper tiers happy I suppose.

:cap_book:

SJ_Sailer,

A few questions to start with. Were you running premium time? Were you running the economic flags? Were you running camouflage that increases credit earning? Are you using premium consumables in all available slots and restocking them with credits?

I know these are a lot of questions but these are all factors in helping increase credit earning. 

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Protip: shoot destroyers.

It's not about how much damage you do, it's about where you apply that damage.  

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

Got any screenshots of the final screens so we can dissect what happened?

 

No but if I remember correctly it was a epicenter battle, I was at 60% health, 25K damage, no kills, no prem consumables, a special camo but forget which one, no economic flags.

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1 hour ago, theLaalaa said:

I find profit in running T8 and T9 premiums.

I don't buy them with $$, mind you (see sig below), but I have award, coal and free XP ships at those levels, and I almost always profit. I have 2 T10 boats with less than 50 games in the both of them...

So save my coal and one day I can have a Salem?  At 400 a day that is a long stretch.

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23 minutes ago, iKami said:

SJ_Sailer,

A few questions to start with. Were you running premium time? Were you running the economic flags? Were you running camouflage that increases credit earning? Are you using premium consumables in all available slots and restocking them with credits?

I know these are a lot of questions but these are all factors in helping increase credit earning. 

No Premium time, that seems to be core problem it seems but I did have special camo but no economic flags.  It seems the high tiers are only for those that purchase premium time.  If they offered that "360 Day Half Price" special today I think I would get it but until then I think I will just stick to Tier 7.  I am lucky if I play 2-3 games a day and 6 on the weekends assuming IRL does not take over.

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3 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

No but if I remember correctly it was a epicenter battle, I was at 60% health, 25K damage, no kills, no prem consumables, a special camo but forget which one, no economic flags.

What was the 25k damage on? If you did 25k to BBs you will not get much credits and XP out of that as that is 25-40% of a single BBs health. If you got 25k on DDs, that would be more than 1 DDs health and you would get a lot more credits and XP.

 

2 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

So save my coal and one day I can have a Salem?  At 400 a day that is a long stretch.

 

The average is ~500 coal per container. So with 3 containers and at least one Daily Chain, you are looking at 1,700 coal per day.

 

2 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

No Premium time, that seems to be core problem it seems but I did have special camo but no economic flags.  It seems the high tiers are only for those that purchase premium time.  If they offered that "360 Day Half Price" special today I think I would get it but until then I think I will just stick to Tier 7.  I am lucky if I play 2-3 games a day and 6 on the weekends assuming IRL does not take over.

Perma-camo and some one use camos will give you -10% service cost at T8. The India Bravo Terrathree signal gives you another -10%. Your clan has a -5% service cost. Your clan can boost that to -15%. At T8, you have a 75,000 credit service cost for DDs, CL/CAs, & BBs. Here is what you can get that down to.

71,250 - with just your -5% clan bonus 

63,750 - with a -15% clan bonus 

63,750 - with just your -5% clan bonus & perma-camo -10%

56,250 - with just your -5% clan bonus, -10% service flag, & perma-camo -10%

48,750 - with a -15% clan bonus, -10% service flag, & perma-camo -10%

~20-26k credits extra can be the difference between making and losing credits

 

Premium time does not reduce service cost, but does boost credits by +50%.

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 To make credits (and exp), it's a little more to it then just doing damage. Yes doing damage is a good place to start, the more you do the more you going to make. But there are other factors that come into play. Couple of them are, what's the tier difference between the ships, and how much health that ship has.

 

With the tier difference, the lower tier ship earns more for doing damage to higher tier ship.

 

Now with the health. Lets say in one salvo, you do 5,000 damage. That 5000 is going to be worth more depending on what ship you hit. If it's to a destroyer with 20,000 HP, that's 25% of its health. But the same 5,000 damage to a battleship is going to be worth less, because it has a higher health pool. Just to make the numbers easier, if the battleship has 100,000, that's only 5% of it's HP. So you have to do more damage to the battleship, to earn the same amount as you would a destroyer.

 

Some other things that add to making credits and exp, capping, defending a cap, spotting, and shooting down aircraft.

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28 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

No Premium time, that seems to be core problem it seems but I did have special camo but no economic flags.  It seems the high tiers are only for those that purchase premium time.  If they offered that "360 Day Half Price" special today I think I would get it but until then I think I will just stick to Tier 7.  I am lucky if I play 2-3 games a day and 6 on the weekends assuming IRL does not take over.

Yea I think you really need the premium time to bad you didn't get it when it was 48.00 dollars for the year that's like 15 cents a day it helps a lot .

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1 hour ago, iKami said:

SJ_Sailer,

A few questions to start with. Were you running premium time? Were you running the economic flags? Were you running camouflage that increases credit earning? Are you using premium consumables in all available slots and restocking them with credits?

I know these are a lot of questions but these are all factors in helping increase credit earning. 

Or in other words...have you payed to play?

WG is a business. Running the game costs money...

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark
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44 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

No but if I remember correctly it was a epicenter battle, I was at 60% health, 25K damage, no kills, no prem consumables, a special camo but forget which one, no economic flags.

Your best game in the Hipper was 23k damage.  You aren't going to come out ahead with that damage in a Tier 8, unless it is all DD damage.  You need to learn the ship better so you can do more damage and help your team.  

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4 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Or in other words...have you payed to play?

WG is a business. Running the game costs money...

That isn't a bad thing.  But, if you play decently well, you should be able to play tier 8's and not lose silver.  I don't spend money on premium time very often (prefer to use my doubloons on retraining and module demount), still don't have any issue making silver in Tier 8's.  

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56 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

No but if I remember correctly it was a epicenter battle, I was at 60% health, 25K damage, no kills, no prem consumables, a special camo but forget which one, no economic flags.

25k damage is very low for a Tier 10 game. Note that Admiral Hipper's Hull A has 37k HP, and Hulls B and C have 43k (almost 44k) HP. I consider breaking even in damage dealt an "Okay" game, and you're at least 17k damage short of even that much. It's little wonder you're losing money in the Admiral Hipper. The best thing for you to do right now is to keep grinding away at Hipper until you understand her strengths and weaknesses.

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