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WizardFerret

Hakuryu quad torps still terrible

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The 4 drop on Hakuryu has great damage potential, but the horrendous aiming combined with how they do not fly under flak when performing an attack run (like every other torpedo bomber in the game) makes them feel very underpowered. They would be a lot better if these changes were made, but sadly they are ignored in every patch. I recorded the torpedoes being dropped and then sped it up by 30%, and the converging cone I think looks good in the 1st video where it is sped up (The second is the normal speed). If anyone else has any ideas on how the alternative torpedo bomber module for Hakuryu could be improved, please tell me.
Edited by WizardFerret
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6.4km torps, I assume you're using TA. These planes are all about stealth torping and you're using them as the 6km of course you're going to struggle.

 

The 8km planes are bad, and if you want to do direct drop you better just use the 6km ones

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1 hour ago, WizardFerret said:

 

The 4 drop on Hakuryu has great damage potential, but the horrendous aiming combined with how they do not fly under flak when performing an attack run (like every other torpedo bomber in the game) makes them feel very underpowered. They would be a lot better if these changes were made, but sadly they are ignored in every patch. I recorded the torpedoes being dropped and then sped it up by 30%, and the converging cone I think looks good in the 1st video where it is sped up (The second is the normal speed). If anyone else has any ideas on how the alternative torpedo bomber module for Hakuryu could be improved, please tell me.

They should just remove them rather then leave it as a hopelessly useless option. 

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1 hour ago, Shinzon1 said:

They should just remove them rather then leave it as a hopelessly useless option. 

Well WG tends to never remove things. I'd say that with a bit of improvement they would be good and a viable alternative. If they improved the aiming and had them fly under flak, the choice between the two would be for 2 drop to be able to drop a lot closer and guarantee them to hit whereas the 4 drop would have a longer arming distance (Which it does right now) but if you lead correctly and have good aiming skills you have more damage potential than the 2 drop, and can get higher numbers. To me the damage from the 2 drop is a bit underwhelming, or maybe they could just remove both and replace it with one that drops 3 torpedoes per attack.

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1 hour ago, WizardFerret said:

Well WG tends to never remove things. I'd say that with a bit of improvement they would be good and a viable alternative. If they improved the aiming and had them fly under flak, the choice between the two would be for 2 drop to be able to drop a lot closer and guarantee them to hit whereas the 4 drop would have a longer arming distance (Which it does right now) but if you lead correctly and have good aiming skills you have more damage potential than the 2 drop, and can get higher numbers. To me the damage from the 2 drop is a bit underwhelming, or maybe they could just remove both and replace it with one that drops 3 torpedoes per attack.

There isn't a ship in game with turning bad enough to eat all 4 torpedoes. 4 drops are completely useless. Unequivocally. With an 8km drop on a BB moving at max speed you are looking at probably somewhere around 10 ship lengths of lead. That's just for a BB. That means the ship you are aiming for won't even be on your screen and you do not have a lead indicator. They are literally luck based junk.

Edited by _Caliph_

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The idea behind them is that you can "stealth torp" and one of the four will hit the target. However, this ability requires both heavy upgrade and skill investment and the "T-rex" torps have pretty long range for surprise (if not stealth) attacks.

The problem about balancing this is that if you made it so that the quad torps were as effective close range as the T-rex torps, nobody would use the T-rex torps anymore. Maybe they could make the range even longer or the stealth even greater on them? That would still make the quad torps highly situational, but wouldn't require nearly as big an investment to do what they are designed for.

Edited by Wows_Nightly_News

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2 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

The idea behind them is that you can "stealth torp" and one of the four will hit the target. However, this ability requires both heavy upgrade and skill investment and the "T-rex" torps have pretty long range for surprise (if not stealth) attacks.

The problem about balancing this is that if you made it so that the quad torps were as effective close range and the T-rex torps, nobody would use the T-rex torps anymore. Maybe they could make the range even longer or the stealth even greater on them? That would still make the quad torps highly situational, but wouldn't require nearly as big an investment to do what they are designed for.

Or just give them a lead indicator like surface ships.

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Yeah man I enjoyed the Hak even though is was never good with the 4 torps. Now it does seem like maybe an area denial tool but highly inefficient. At T10 a shim could delete ships while denying an area but Hak torps just tickle. But I guess that’s the trade off for flying torpedo drops. I don’t touch my Hak anymore though. I don’t really feel it can compete with Midways so what’s the point? 

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1 minute ago, _Caliph_ said:

Or just give them a lead indicator like surface ships.

given that the quads move slower, I'm not sure how much this would help. In anycase you would still need to devote a lot of skills and modules to torpedo bombers.

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9 hours ago, _Caliph_ said:

There isn't a ship in game with turning bad enough to eat all 4 torpedoes. 4 drops are completely useless. Unequivocally. With an 8km drop on a BB moving at max speed you are looking at probably somewhere around 10 ship lengths of lead. That's just for a BB. That means the ship you are aiming for won't even be on your screen and you do not have a lead indicator. They are literally luck based junk.

I did a lot of testing in training battles, and you can actually hit all 4 torps sometimes (Of course they were unarmed mobile bots to experiment, real players are much harder to attack with these). In 8.0 before the stupid hotfixes they could also reliably hit the target as the speed was higher as well and the aiming was way better and the planes could actually attack without being mowed down. So they could be good if just several things were changed.

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9 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Yeah man I enjoyed the Hak even though is was never good with the 4 torps. Now it does seem like maybe an area denial tool but highly inefficient. At T10 a shim could delete ships while denying an area but Hak torps just tickle. But I guess that’s the trade off for flying torpedo drops. I don’t touch my Hak anymore though. I don’t really feel it can compete with Midways so what’s the point? 

Yeah it is not fun to play. Through my testing I find that if you could reliably hit them they can do a lot of damage very quick (If 9 torps from your first squad hit, they can bring you up to 70k in the first 2 minutes) but of course it is not the case in randoms. There is really strong AA, they don't fly under flak when attacking, the aim and torpedo speed is terrible they have nothing good about them unlike in 8.0.

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Well.. According to server stats its second best CV at its tier..    I don't think its the DBs that are doing it?   Audacious is just smooth showing out right now.    Kind of sad how terrible Midway looks on average compared to all the OP claims that are being put out there.       

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1 hour ago, RA6E_ said:

Well.. According to server stats its second best CV at its tier..    I don't think its the DBs that are doing it?   Audacious is just smooth showing out right now.    Kind of sad how terrible Midway looks on average compared to all the OP claims that are being put out there.       

Guaranteed you are using stats from pre-flooding nerfs.

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11 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

 I don’t touch my Hak anymore though. I don’t really feel it can compete with Midways so what’s the point? 

She can compete but you have to master aiming those torps. In this game I landed 25 of them with only 4 floods to show for it. That's using both flooding signals too. 

https://replayswows.com/replay/46804#stats

Edited by _Caliph_

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2 hours ago, _Caliph_ said:

She can compete but you have to master aiming those torps. In this game I landed 25 of them with only 4 floods to show for it. That's using both flooding signals too. 

https://replayswows.com/replay/46804#stats

I'm actually looking forward to Hak...  Doing better in shokaku than I did in Lexington and have absolutely stunk up the place in my first few games in midway.   

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The 4 drop is supposed to only work on unaware ships, or you can cross-drop. If perfectly executed, the BB should take 1 torpedo on turning into the drop or away from it, and then you fly around to where he is turning to put 4 on him. Although very difficult to execute, it does work against BBs with a bad turning radius. 

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4 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

The 4 drop is supposed to only work on unaware ships, or you can cross-drop. If perfectly executed, the BB should take 1 torpedo on turning into the drop or away from it, and then you fly around to where he is turning to put 4 on him. Although very difficult to execute, it does work against BBs with a bad turning radius. 

Seems a bit too difficult and situational for a good module.

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What exactly is the difference between Hak's 2 sets of torp bombers. and what are they used for? I got her recently and I just got the 4 torp upgrade but I can't really hit anything with them. I don't have the other version yet to see the difference. Could someone kindly explain what they difference is other than 2 torps vs. 4? The tooltip seemed basically the same otherwise. 

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19 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

What exactly is the difference between Hak's 2 sets of torp bombers. and what are they used for? I got her recently and I just got the 4 torp upgrade but I can't really hit anything with them. I don't have the other version yet to see the difference. Could someone kindly explain what they difference is other than 2 torps vs. 4? The tooltip seemed basically the same otherwise. 

 

The 4 torps has -10kts and her planes doesn't fly underflaks. You're supposed to stealth torps with that, leading without white indicator and makes sure you spend your time invisible. While the first drop isn't too hard, the second drops will be harder to perform because it requires time to aim and also a very good prediction, all of that within a short windows. Your last strike is pretty much impossible to do without being detected.

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