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FWGuy

Upgrading Gun Fire Control

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Does upgrading the gun fire control system improve accuracy at the shorter ranges?

I know it gives you greater range (10%) but what about shell dispersion?

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the dispersion remains unchanged

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22 minutes ago, FWGuy said:

Does upgrading the gun fire control system improve accuracy at the shorter ranges?

I know it gives you greater range (10%) but what about shell dispersion?

IIRC, dispersion scales with distance, but I'm not sure if it is linear or not.

 

So if you have a 200m dispersion at 20km, adding a Fire Control upgrade will will give you 22km, but the dispersion may not be 220m. It will still be 200m at 20km tho. So putting up a spotter only makes the dispersion worse at the longer ranges where the distance is what makes it worse. Hopefully that was clear. :)

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The dispersion as listed is based on your max range. so if you pre-upgrade is 15 with say 150 and your upgrade is 16.5 with 150 then yes there is an improvement closer up. Mind you it will be very hard to notice. The dispersion as listed really only deals with horizontal dispersion not vertical(sigma). Sigma is only affected by devs so....

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38 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

The dispersion as listed is based on your max range. so if you pre-upgrade is 15 with say 150 and your upgrade is 16.5 with 150 then yes there is an improvement closer up. Mind you it will be very hard to notice. The dispersion as listed really only deals with horizontal dispersion not vertical(sigma). Sigma is only affected by devs so....

Eh, no, a few things off there.

First, whenever you mount a range extension, be it GFCS or the range mod, the maximum dispersion will also increase. You can check this in the client, here is North Carolina for example:

Spoiler

Stock Range, 21.1km with 271m max dispersion:

shot-19_04.11_03_22.44-0884.thumb.jpg.2f195c62684cc0e709917f429c7f1672.jpg

Upgraded range, 23.3km with 293m dispersion:

shot-19_04.11_03_22.36-0301.thumb.jpg.d2fb9a72b3fd996aaf7fd1d122e0ee27.jpg

Second, sigma does not describe the vertical dispersion. The vertical dispersion is its own value which usually is tied to the gun, and depends on the ballistics (hence why USN shells have tighter vertical dispersion than for example Roma). Sigma describes the likelihood of your shells to deviate towards the center of aim. The higher, the better.

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19 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Eh, no, a few things off there.

First, whenever you mount a range extension, be it GFCS or the range mod, the maximum dispersion will also increase. You can check this in the client, here is North Carolina for example:

  Reveal hidden contents

Stock Range, 21.1km with 271m max dispersion:

shot-19_04.11_03_22.44-0884.thumb.jpg.2f195c62684cc0e709917f429c7f1672.jpg

Upgraded range, 23.3km with 293m dispersion:

shot-19_04.11_03_22.36-0301.thumb.jpg.d2fb9a72b3fd996aaf7fd1d122e0ee27.jpg

Second, sigma does not describe the vertical dispersion. The vertical dispersion is its own value which usually is tied to the gun, and depends on the ballistics (hence why USN shells have tighter vertical dispersion than for example Roma). Sigma describes the likelihood of your shells to deviate towards the center of aim. The higher, the better.

I did state it as "IF" so If it does change then no it is not an improvement. There was a time however in the early days of WOWS where the "IF" was true. Mind this was Alpha and BETA. Since then I have never really paid much attention to this. Even still the increases tend to be 8m-18m. Then, of course, you have the IOWA which actually gets a -11m for the GFCS and another -30m for hull b or c, thus proving an exception to this rule. Though I think this was chalked up as a buff to make the Iowa less painful to play as for a long time people hated it, but my memory may be fuzzy on that.

Then you have the French cruiser line who also does not suffer a penalty in terms of upgrading the gfcs or the PCA n 7 MLe. So by that logic it would be a decrease in dispersion the closer you are to the target.

I know you are a wiki mod and I know you know your stuff. Im only showing there are exceptions to these rules. IOWA and French cruisers. It is also possible that in that French DD's and Italian ship lines may also have this as a core feature, but that is just speculation, but a possibility.

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15 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Then you have the French cruiser line who also does not suffer a penalty in terms of upgrading the gfcs or the PCA n 7 MLe. So by that logic it would be a decrease in dispersion the closer you are to the target.

Checking Algerie, I can say that she is not an outlier. She follows the same rules as all the other ships do.

Spoiler

shot-19_04.11_03_52.27-0883.thumb.jpg.f7bc6bc7cb1dc69d39debe5958899d65.jpgshot-19_04.11_03_52.32-0750.thumb.jpg.f214212ffcf9b26cbca8e84861ff2826.jpg

 

17 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Then, of course, you have the IOWA which actually gets a -11m for the GFCS and another -30m for hull b or c, thus proving an exception to this rule. Though I think this was chalked up as a buff to make the Iowa less painful to play as for a long time people hated it, but my memory may be fuzzy on that.

I can not replicate the events you describe on Iowa. Could you take screenshots of this, because I unfortunately do not see this being the case. There has been a UI bug around for some time where if you have sold a ship prior to demounting modules, it would for some reason show the benefits of the modules when selecting the upgraded hull. Could be that this may have affected your observations.

24 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Even still the increases tend to be 8m-18m.

In all cases that I have seen so far the increase was so that the dispersion would remain true to the dispersion curve. Horizontal dispersion is not a value that gets spit out by an rng device, but when you know the ship and the few exceptions (which however still follow a graph) you can exactly tell what the dispersion values at any given range is, with the exception ranges below 4km as dispersion does wonky things there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N3J2SIkED_rny9I8tYXrDwhZRkp3jX8eXWw8HnxiLqo/edit#gid=0

Taking Algerie as an example. Stock range is 16.3km. The dispersion for a regular cruiser at 16km is 143.4m. I could enter 16.3 into the formula and would come out at the 146m that you see listed in port.

Now the 17.9km range, I round to 18km, table spits out 157.2m max dispersion. Comparing with the screenshot, it's a bullseye.

 

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The accuracy will not increase, your dispersion will increase but so will your range.  Your dispersion/range ratio remains constant.

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9 minutes ago, ValkyrWarframe said:

The accuracy will not increase, your dispersion will increase but so will your range.  Your dispersion/range ratio remains constant.

This

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59 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Checking Algerie, I can say that she is not an outlier. She follows the same rules as all the other ships do.

  Hide contents

shot-19_04.11_03_52.27-0883.thumb.jpg.f7bc6bc7cb1dc69d39debe5958899d65.jpgshot-19_04.11_03_52.32-0750.thumb.jpg.f214212ffcf9b26cbca8e84861ff2826.jpg

 

I can not replicate the events you describe on Iowa. Could you take screenshots of this, because I unfortunately do not see this being the case. There has been a UI bug around for some time where if you have sold a ship prior to demounting modules, it would for some reason show the benefits of the modules when selecting the upgraded hull. Could be that this may have affected your observations.

In all cases that I have seen so far the increase was so that the dispersion would remain true to the dispersion curve. Horizontal dispersion is not a value that gets spit out by an rng device, but when you know the ship and the few exceptions (which however still follow a graph) you can exactly tell what the dispersion values at any given range is, with the exception ranges below 4km as dispersion does wonky things there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N3J2SIkED_rny9I8tYXrDwhZRkp3jX8eXWw8HnxiLqo/edit#gid=0

Taking Algerie as an example. Stock range is 16.3km. The dispersion for a regular cruiser at 16km is 143.4m. I could enter 16.3 into the formula and would come out at the 146m that you see listed in port.

Now the 17.9km range, I round to 18km, table spits out 157.2m max dispersion. Comparing with the screenshot, it's a bullseye.

 

if you check the stats without a captain and in the Tech tree you will see these results this may be a bug that has been overlooked but for most other ships this is not the case

in the following order without a captain No mod not purchased. With upgrade fc, with hull b. 

b897cd18cd2468ca60bf1d41b2418632.png2038a1075e58f1fca25e4cd7cd0ee047.png

60e41077ebeaee2c8310cd7f3ebd5bb4.png

 

For the IOWA

Again no captain, not purchased, in tech tree. Follow order. Plain, with gfcs, hull b

ce3dd6c5f821ac6e372d489228b115ec.png9d1100fb48f8d5a07d7f6c762604c8a9.png

6063e9075ba3cfbf5b94e4bb4910ddeb.png

I think this may be a bug however as these are ships I have already gone past in those lines. I used the tech tree to view the information without captain and by clicking on the gfcs and the hull b to see the results of the effect. I was able to get these results on French ships t7-9 usn bb t9. All of the other ships I have scanned over, did not do the whole tech tree, seem to be working as intended though but these 4 ships don't seem to conform to what you are saying. Again probably a bug

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9 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

in the following order without a captain No mod not purchased. With upgrade fc, with hull b. 

b897cd18cd2468ca60bf1d41b2418632.png2038a1075e58f1fca25e4cd7cd0ee047.png

60e41077ebeaee2c8310cd7f3ebd5bb4.png

It is as I thought, you are experiencing the bug. I am willing to bet that you installed Aiming Systems Mod 1 on your Algerie when you were grinding through her.

Your stock dispersion is 146m. With the GFCS your calculated dispersion at 17.9km is 156.51km. However now the game does this bug and believes it has to apply ASM1. So multiply with 0.93 and you get 145.55m, which rounds to 146m which is the value you see there.

By installing the B-Hull the bug also kicks in, you multiply your stock dispersion (it's actually 145.47 when you calculate it, so some serious rounding took place in the UI) with 0.93 and you get the 135.29m dispersion your client is selling you there.

16 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

For the IOWA

Again no captain, not purchased, in tech tree. Follow order. Plain, with gfcs, hull b

ce3dd6c5f821ac6e372d489228b115ec.png9d1100fb48f8d5a07d7f6c762604c8a9.png

6063e9075ba3cfbf5b94e4bb4910ddeb.png

Doing the same math here, but with the factor 0.89 since that's the accuracy module that Iowa gets.

I explained the steps above already, so I'll just drop the equation here.

Iowa + GFCS: (23.3 * 10 + 60) * 0.89 = 260.77

Iowa + B-Hull: (21.2 * 10 + 60 ) * 0.89 = 242.08

21 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

I think this may be a bug however as these are ships I have already gone past in those lines. I used the tech tree to view the information without captain and by clicking on the gfcs and the hull b to see the results of the effect. I was able to get these results on French ships t7-9 usn bb t9. All of the other ships I have scanned over, did not do the whole tech tree, seem to be working as intended though but these 4 ships don't seem to conform to what you are saying. Again probably a bug

You can test this for yourself if you do not want to take my word. If you have the credits to spare you can rebuy Algerie and seee if the values will still remain like the clinet is telling you right now. I promise with 99% confidence that they will change back to what I sent earlier. An annoying bug for sure, especially if people are not aware of it and believe things have changed, but nothing you or I can do about it.

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5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

It is as I thought, you are experiencing the bug. I am willing to bet that you installed Aiming Systems Mod 1 on your Algerie when you were grinding through her.

Your stock dispersion is 146m. With the GFCS your calculated dispersion at 17.9km is 156.51km. However now the game does this bug and believes it has to apply ASM1. So multiply with 0.93 and you get 145.55m, which rounds to 146m which is the value you see there.

By installing the B-Hull the bug also kicks in, you multiply your stock dispersion (it's actually 145.47 when you calculate it, so some serious rounding took place in the UI) with 0.93 and you get the 135.29m dispersion your client is selling you there.

Doing the same math here, but with the factor 0.89 since that's the accuracy module that Iowa gets.

I explained the steps above already, so I'll just drop the equation here.

Iowa + GFCS: (23.3 * 10 + 60) * 0.89 = 260.77

Iowa + B-Hull: (21.2 * 10 + 60 ) * 0.89 = 242.08

You can test this for yourself if you do not want to take my word. If you have the credits to spare you can rebuy Algerie and seee if the values will still remain like the clinet is telling you right now. I promise with 99% confidence that they will change back to what I sent earlier. An annoying bug for sure, especially if people are not aware of it and believe things have changed, but nothing you or I can do about it.

I do for the cruiser, but will take your word for it. though to be honest this is an area where wg could tweak a bit for newer lines coming out to give them some measure of difference from every other DD,CA, or bb line. Imagine if italian bbs were a bit more accurate with the gfcs upgrade, but suffer a 2 second penalty to reload. That would be a very interesting concept.

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