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CharlesBB55

New captain skill idea - big gun RoF

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In 1938, the CNO placed a limit on 24sec minimum for reloading the main guns of the USN battleships.   This was the fleet average for the short range (rapid fire) drill in 1930.  The reason was safety.  The RN Battlecruiser crews are well know for their willingness to bypass safety to raise RoF.

So...how about a captain skill (or module) which allows an increased RoF and the cost of an increased detonation risk (which cannot be prevented by a flag)?  Or perhaps you run the risk of having a turret incapacitated while firing but without taking a hit by RNG as a result of using this skill?  Or maybe this only affects you if you are firing your guns more rapidly than the standard reload?  So, your 30sec reload drops to 26sec with this skill, and you are not affected if your waiting to 30sec to fire, but as you fire faster (don’t wait after reloading), the chances of a turret being randomly incapacitated goes way up.

How much of an increase in RoF and detonation danger would be acceptable?  Detonations certainly aren’t fun and engaging, but sometimes we do occasionally hope for them to afflict an enemy in battle. 

I like the incapacitation penalty more than the detonation penalty.  If not balanced well, this skill would either be OP or worthless.

 

Source for the USN references (a great read):

http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/INRO_BB-Gunnery.php

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I'm on the fence about this one.

What's the cutoff for "big gun"? CLs already out-DPM CAs by a wide margin with IFHE, so it would have to be greater than 15.5cm (Mogami). Since I play CAs, I'd love improved RoF on Exeter and Aoba, but Zao and Des moines would be terrifying with buffed 20.3cm RoFs. Also, would this RoF buff Main Battery Reload Booster, or would that remain a flat reload rate? If the former, Jean Bart would be unstoppable.

Too many variables.

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For me this game has already shown that bigger guns means bigger damage. Also all the ships with bigger guns have better survival rates.

So you are considering a skill that allows the best damage dealers to get more damage against the ships that have less survival or at best equal. I understand you are suggesting the balance of being detonated, but we all know that if that ends up happening to often the big gun ships will complain.

So in essence it turns out to be a request for the best damage ships to do more damage in a way that doesn't really penalise it because if it did, it wouldn't be fun and engaging!:Smile_honoring:

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Perhaps if the "Cost" of the greater rate of fire could be dispersion? Perhaps the further you are out when you fire the greater the dispersion.

That would encourage BB's to get in close to use your concept.

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Dispersion is an idea I like...it either increases dispersion by taking it, or increases dispersion whenever you fire faster than the normal reload.  This encourages closer ranged fights when using this skill.

It would need a trade off so that the total damage dealt doesn’t change, but when it is dealt does change.  Kind of like how IFHE is supposed to be balanced by direct damage vs fire chance.  Not a buff for BBs!  I play all the classes and don’t want any one buffed/nerfed relative to the others except at specific tiers where the balance is poor (T5 cruiser except taco and Exeter need love).

 

The real life issues with RoF were crew handling mistakes (which could knock out the turret a la Iowa/Newport News or just temporarily incapacitate it due to spilled propellant/injured crews).

So I’m sailing in to brawl, with such a skill, against a a red BB...I start firing faster...say 15% faster...but then I lose a turret for 30sec and my DPM just dropped by 25-33%.  

The skill lets you roll the dice on more frequent turrets getting knocked out for increased DPM.

Or maybe the trade off is that turret hits flash the magazine for citadel damage?  So a turret getting knocked out doubles as a citadel since the crew bypassed the safety?  That would discourage light cruisers and DDs from using it.

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33 minutes ago, BTed72 said:

That would encourage BB's to get in close to use your concept.

If you really want to do that, you need to limit the effectiveness of long range HE.

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21 minutes ago, Harathan said:

Didn’t we used to have a module that did this? We have the “+rotation, -RoF” one, I thought there used to be a “+RoG, -rotation” as well. Maybe I just imagined it. 

For T9-10s it is in the game...+RoF and -rotation.

 

This is different...it is more like Basic Fire Training for BBs, super cruisers, and maybe CA’s, but with the big downside of it possibly backfiring.   The RoF mod just decreases turret rotation which in many cases is an easy no-brained choice...minimal downside.  

Like atlanta with IFHE...do you want to roll the dice with fires or get the more reliable Direct HE damage

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OP suggest a 14% better reload at the cost of higher incapacitation chance.

 

I don't have the reload mod value but I'm pretty sure a Yamato with this could reach 15 sec with the OP suggestion + reload mod + AR.

If I take a ship like République with something like 20 sec reload... oof. It might even have 13-10 sec reload.

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3 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

OP suggest a 14% better reload at the cost of higher incapacitation chance.

 

I don't have the reload mod value but I'm pretty sure a Yamato with this could reach 15 sec with the OP suggestion + reload mod + AR.

If I take a ship like République with something like 20 sec reload... oof. It might even have 13-10 sec reload.

The goal of the suggestion was to get BBs with Cruiser reload speeds.  Which is a lot of b.s. for a mere "increased chance for incapacitation" with the added benefit of being able to delete things quickly with BB guns.

 

We had a guy wanting Zao to get faster reloading 12km torpedoes.

We got a lingering thread around here wanting 25pt Captains.

We now got a thread wanting BBs with Cruiser Reloads.

No sense of balance on these message boards.

 

I mean, Jesus H. Christ, we got 2 BBs with MBRB consumable already, and that's not enough, BBs need to shoot even faster?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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35 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The goal of the suggestion was to get BBs with Cruiser reload speeds.  Which is a lot of b.s. for a mere "increased chance for incapacitation" with the added benefit of being able to delete things quickly with BB guns.

 

We had a guy wanting Zao to get faster reloading 12km torpedoes.

We got a lingering thread around here wanting 25pt Captains.

We now got a thread wanting BBs with Cruiser Reloads.

No sense of balance on these message boards.

 

I mean, Jesus H. Christ, we got 2 BBs with MBRB consumable already, and that's not enough, BBs need to shoot even faster?

 

I wouldn't be against a 25pt captain to have the perfect anime protagonist captain x'D

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The goal of the suggestion was to get BBs with Cruiser reload speeds.  Which is a lot of b.s. for a mere "increased chance for incapacitation" with the added benefit of being able to delete things quickly with BB guns.

 

We had a guy wanting Zao to get faster reloading 12km torpedoes.

We got a lingering thread around here wanting 25pt Captains.

We now got a thread wanting BBs with Cruiser Reloads.

No sense of balance on these message boards.

 

I mean, Jesus H. Christ, we got 2 BBs with MBRB consumable already, and that's not enough, BBs need to shoot even faster?

Over the top replies there guys.  No, there isn’t a “goal” and if you check my profile, you will see that I play cruisers more the BBs, especially at T10 where 80-90% of my play is cruisers.

Perhaps such a skill doesn’t stack with the reload mod (a good point you brought up) so that it is pointless for people who use that...but allows USN BBs to chose reload allowing with dispersion, and T3-T8 BBs in general to take it.

Not a “mere increase in incapacitation risk”, but rather a very significant one...something which makes it a a truly balanced trade off and not some unneeded buff.  If the RoF is buffed by 14%, then I’d start with a 14% chance that the turret be incapacited at random (without getting hit) during the reload cycle which offsets for the RoF. (Crew spills propellant...can’t fire gun for a cycle).    Perhaps increasing dispersion as well.

i think the most interesting way to implement would be that the risk is only present if you are firing faster than the normal reload...allowing the risk to be mitigated by waiting for the normal reload.  Allowing the user to balance the risk and reward.

 

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The goal of the suggestion was to get BBs with Cruiser reload speeds.  Which is a lot of b.s. for a mere "increased chance for incapacitation" with the added benefit of being able to delete things quickly with BB guns.

 

We had a guy wanting Zao to get faster reloading 12km torpedoes.

We got a lingering thread around here wanting 25pt Captains.

We now got a thread wanting BBs with Cruiser Reloads.

No sense of balance on these message boards.

 

I mean, Jesus H. Christ, we got 2 BBs with MBRB consumable already, and that's not enough, BBs need to shoot even faster?

Yes ……  I just couldn't resist but doesn't this proposed captain skill pertain to all ships CAs and DDs everyone is firing faster not just BBs . Some cruisers would be crazy with reload speeds.

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