Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Ensign_Cthulhu

Naval Fire Control in the era of WOWS.

14 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

10,493
[ARGSY]
Members
18,277 posts
12,709 battles

Guns:

 

 

Torpedoes:

 

 

Considering the pace at which WOWS moves, be thankful that you don't have to deal with all this on top of steering your ship! 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
284
[WOLF6]
Members
775 posts
5,132 battles

Pretty cool.

once radar came on scene it became pretty easy to figure out the enemy course and speed using a manual contraption called a maneuvering board,  (just a sheet of paper with a radial compass rose and range ticks and pencil). Or you could do the calculations directly on the scope head using white grease pencil.

But plotting it on the moboard you could solve the enemy motion by plotting the observed relative motion and your own ship motion..  once you calculated enemy course and speed, you could change the relative motion vector by adjusting your own ship course and speed to do whatever you want, open range, intercept, avoid, etc.

(From the video) the range rate of 800 ft/min is also 8kts closing, 24kts deflection is 2400ft/min.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
66 posts
512 battles

I mean with advanced fire control systems like on modern warships or the Iowa all you do is select what you want to shoot and then you'll get automatic near perfect lead at all ranges and speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
513
[LEGIT]
Members
2,217 posts
30,355 battles

And some people want this game to be more like a simulation?  No thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,878 posts
11,515 battles

 

21 minutes ago, captinjoehenry said:

I mean with advanced fire control systems like on modern warships or the Iowa all you do is select what you want to shoot and then you'll get automatic near perfect lead at all ranges and speeds.

not 100% accurate. As someone who operated an FC system on a Ticonderoga class cruiser, I can say this isn't always the case. If in nonwartime condition and something that we cant identify pops up there are like 20 some odd checks that have to be done before we are able to fire and even then its most likely a no fire situation. For wargames and or wartime operations there are some 5-10 checks that are done before weapons release. Most of those are to verify that we are not shooting a friendly target. In my case on the mk 15 phalanx it was a matter of 1. target identification(100% done via networked systems) 2 calculating speed and course,(again 100% done by networked systems), 3 assessing threat to ship and or allies in the area,(100% me.) 4 start track of target for both ram and gun system,(50% me 50% networked system), 5, report threat to CSO, 6 wait for weapons release command,7 weapons release and either a few ram missiles will intercept or a slew of 20 mm projectiles will turn it into nothing. The longest part of this process is waiting for the order to engage. 1-5 can be done in less then 5 seconds, 3 if you are seasoned and have been running the same drill 5 times a day for 2 weeks. Waiting for the command to release has to go through the chain but in the case of defensive measures during wartime is left to the CSO and generally doesn't have to wait for authorization from the co or xo, unless that ship has standing orders that are different.. For weapons meant to engage enemy ships, land targets and or non-immediate threat aerial targets those orders must come from the co.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
66 posts
512 battles
4 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

 

not 100% accurate. As someone who operated an FC system on a Ticonderoga class cruiser, I can say this isn't always the case. If in nonwartime condition and something that we cant identify pops up there are like 20 some odd checks that have to be done before we are able to fire and even then its most likely a no fire situation. For wargames and or wartime operations there are some 5-10 checks that are done before weapons release. Most of those are to verify that we are not shooting a friendly target. In my case on the mk 15 phalanx it was a matter of 1. target identification(100% done via networked systems) 2 calculating speed and course,(again 100% done by networked systems), 3 assessing threat to ship and or allies in the area,(100% me.) 4 start track of target for both ram and gun system,(50% me 50% networked system), 5, report threat to CSO, 6 wait for weapons release command,7 weapons release and either a few ram missiles will intercept or a slew of 20 mm projectiles will turn it into nothing. The longest part of this process is waiting for the order to engage. 1-5 can be done in less then 5 seconds, 3 if you are seasoned and have been running the same drill 5 times a day for 2 weeks. Waiting for the command to release has to go through the chain but in the case of defensive measures during wartime is left to the CSO and generally doesn't have to wait for authorization from the co or xo, unless that ship has standing orders that are different.. For weapons meant to engage enemy ships, land targets and or non-immediate threat aerial targets those orders must come from the co.

Eh?  I mean yes but the FC is still providing all the targetting data and for guns it'll be near perfect.  So in gameplay terms that would just be locking a target and then holding down the fire button and hitting as many shots as dispersion gives you as lead would be dealt with already.  Which would not be that interesting.

also thanks for the info :D  Big fan of all sorts of military info :D

Edited by captinjoehenry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,878 posts
11,515 battles
10 minutes ago, captinjoehenry said:

Eh?  I mean yes but the FC is still providing all the targetting data and for guns it'll be near perfect.  So in gameplay terms that would just be locking a target and then holding down the fire button and hitting as many shots as dispersion gives you as lead would be dealt with already.  Which would not be that interesting.

also thanks for the info :D  Big fan of all sorts of military info :D

depends again if we are talking about missiles then yes. If we are talking about 5-inch guns yes depending on the shell, but there are accuracy variances when shooting surface ships that do occur for non "smart" munitions. For the most part waves. With the introduction of the Zumwalt though the accuracy issue is pretty much a non-issue for stationary targets. I have not seen any data on those guns shooting moving target to have an opinion and can only speak from the systems I experienced and they could hit a moving target that wasn't maneuvering about 80% accuracy with a medium sea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,493
[ARGSY]
Members
18,277 posts
12,709 battles
13 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

Anyone interested in more information on Dumaresqs, etc., spend the $1.30 and buy this book on Kindle.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Naval-Firepower-Battleship-Gunnery-Dreadnought-ebook/dp/B00KTI0T0E

Or substantially more, and get a lovely, high-quality hardback copy that you can read in old-school coffee-houses when the kindle runs out of power.

YouTube user Jeff Quitney is also a good source for all things fire-control from the WOWS era to just beyond. Go check him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,257
[XBRTC]
Members
3,154 posts
10,011 battles
Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Or substantially more, and get a lovely, high-quality hardback copy that you can read in old-school coffee-houses when the kindle runs out of power.

YouTube user Jeff Quitney is also a good source for all things fire-control from the WOWS era to just beyond. Go check him out.

 

Yeah. I've got a lot of his books. Some on kindle, some in dead tree format. I can't afford too many of the dead tree ones, unfortunately.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
199
[TSF]
Beta Testers
392 posts
13,535 battles

In Fire Control 'A' School (1962), we had to do the calculations done automatically by the Mk 1A analog computer used on most USN ships. We were given the same target parameters from the Director, that fed the Mk 1A. With a slide rule and a set of log/Trig tables. We had to show all calculations on 2 sheets of a legal pad. The result was a set of gun orders for Bearing, Elevation, and fuse setting, All compensated for ship's Pitch, Roll, and  Heading. Those calculations were a sequential process, and an error  on one will make the entire answer wrong. I found it fascinating, and aced the final test. There is no way I could do it today, too many brain cells have faded beyond access.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23
[WLDD]
Members
119 posts
5,944 battles
19 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

 

 Most of those are to verify that we are not shooting a friendly target.

 

The longest part of this process is waiting for the order to engage.

USS Helena at Cape Esperance with her SG radar waiting for the supremely capable Rear Adm Scott who unfortunately flew his flag on San Francisco which didn’t have SG and didn’t have the clear picture of the battle that Helena and Boise had.

Edited by CharlesBB55

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,493
[ARGSY]
Members
18,277 posts
12,709 battles
1 hour ago, CaptnAndy said:

In Fire Control 'A' School (1962), we had to do the calculations done automatically by the Mk 1A analog computer used on most USN ships. We were given the same target parameters from the Director, that fed the Mk 1A. With a slide rule and a set of log/Trig tables. We had to show all calculations on 2 sheets of a legal pad. The result was a set of gun orders for Bearing, Elevation, and fuse setting, All compensated for ship's Pitch, Roll, and  Heading. Those calculations were a sequential process, and an error  on one will make the entire answer wrong. I found it fascinating, and aced the final test. There is no way I could do it today, too many brain cells have faded beyond access.

Reminds me of the scene in Dale Brown's novel "Hammerheads" in which the junior coast guard officer is standing on the bridge of his ship after a terrorist's missile has killed most of the bridge crew and smashed the fire control computer and radar but left the actual gun working. He digs the pelorus out of its box and uses it to compute range and bearing (IN HIS HEAD), gives the manual orders to the gun and smacks the terrorist boat. As unrealistic as I fear this scenario is, it was awesome to read.

Then again, I am one of those interesting souls who collects slide rules, and sometimes uses them for real-world problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×