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Legio_X_

My god the Kongsberg is squishy.

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I”m a cruiser main and consider myself above average, but good lord this ship is giving me fits. 

Only good thing i can say about this ship is the good reload speed and great firing angles, but thats where it ends.

i have been dev struck in this ship more combined than any other cruiser i have played. No matter what my angle is. Heck, i took 1 round to the stern and my health with from full HP to less than 1k.

but what pisses me off the most about this ship is the steering geer. IT ALWAYS GOES OUT. Even with the mod to help reduce damage. Getting shot from front? Steering geer goes out. Hit repair....next set of rounds steer geer goes out again. Now im a sitting suck and just waiting for the quick return back to port. 

What a fustrating ship. Im ready to get to yorck. Atleast she has a french feel to her with long range HE spam.

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9 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

I”m a cruiser main and consider myself above average, but good lord this ship is giving me fits. 

Only good thing i can say about this ship is the good reload speed and great firing angles, but thats where it ends.

i have been dev struck in this ship more combined than any other cruiser i have played. No matter what my angle is. Heck, i took 1 round to the stern and my health with from full HP to less than 1k.

but what pisses me off the most about this ship is the steering geer. IT ALWAYS GOES OUT. Even with the mod to help reduce damage. Getting shot from front? Steering geer goes out. Hit repair....next set of rounds steer geer goes out again. Now im a sitting suck and just waiting for the quick return back to port. 

What a fustrating ship. Im ready to get to yorck. Atleast she has a french feel to her with long range HE spam.

Stop channeling cheese-eating wine drinkers, and instead channel the famous Sir Robin.

Konigsburg, Nurnburg, Makarovburg, Roon, and Myogi all share one thing in common; they’re made for running away and kiting more than stand up fights.

Ruthlessly slay lolibotes and broadside contemporaries; run from everything else.

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1 hour ago, Legio_X_ said:

What a fustrating ship.

It's a tier 5 light cruiser; did you think it would tank like Fat Freddy De Goober? (It won't.)

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It‘s necessary for her and Nürnberg to be squishy for balance reasons, since they have IFHE baked in and would otherwise dominate.

T5 Cruisers are squishy against AP with two exceptions, Furutaka and Kirov. So what you have to do is avoid shells entirely, and keep the appropriate distance.

I find the playstyle fun, not frustrating, since K-Berg is by all means a glass cannon which rewards proper positioning and awareness. Master these and she‘ll be very kind.

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Keep the distance long.  Once you start hanging around shorter and shorter ranges, the only thing saving your K-/N-Berg from instant deletion is the marksmanship of your enemy.  Keep the range long and  have ample open water to run around in, she can be real annoying as a BB.  You need to learn this as N-Berg in Tier VI is pretty much the same.

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Keep the distance, keep moving.

Find a juicy XP piñata (usually the closest BB), get close enough to fire but try to keep concealment, turn around and open fire. Set one fire after the other and watch that BB get mad at you while his shells falls left and right of you. Once the BB is consumed by the fires, move to the next one.

If a DD crosses your path, just don't give a flat broadside (as low caliber AP will still eat chunks of your HP). Hydro on and keep shooting HE.

Using Steering Gears Mod 1, preventive maintenance and Juliet-Charlie also helps.

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5 hours ago, Whiskey_Rebel said:

What's this now? (New German CO here).

All german cruisers enjoy a /4 HE penetration dynamic, rather than /6 that is normal.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#HE_penetration

That effect is very similar to the benefit that IFHE provides, but not exactly. And, IFHE will stack (though it's seldom useful to do so).

So, the Konigsberg's 150mm guns shoot HE which will penetrate 37mm of armor. Other nation's cruisers with identical 150mm guns will only penetrate 24mm of armor when shooting HE.  Add IFHE to those other cruiser's captain skills, and you can penetrate (with IFHE) 32mm of armor.

 

This ability was added to German cruisers to compensate for their otherwise *very* lackluster HE damage potential and mediocre Fire-starting chance.

In reality, German cruiser HE will cause about the same amount of damage that any other nation's cruisers will cause, once ROF, Fires, and hits are taken into account.  It's a Game Balance thing.

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Wow, thanks for the info. Is IFHE not worth it because the 1/4 rule normally gets you past the super structure, while 1/4+IFHE would make no difference on the superstructure but wold not get you through most hulls? I have a Rogue Wave captain in this thing, and I would love to pick up EL and EM rather than IFHE...

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Hey

For me; I struggled with Konigsberg too. But I found Nurnberg to be better (still fragile) and much more fun.  Stay at range, dodge and weave, and burn everything and if you catch a cruiser broadside at closer ranges, your AP is murderous with it's high ROF.  Never forget those torps either.

 

Pete

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:19 AM, Whiskey_Rebel said:

Wow, thanks for the info. Is IFHE not worth it because the 1/4 rule normally gets you past the super structure, while 1/4+IFHE would make no difference on the superstructure but wold not get you through most hulls? I have a Rogue Wave captain in this thing, and I would love to pick up EL and EM rather than IFHE...

For the German 150mm guns, adding IFHE changes their pen from 37mm to 48mm.  I'm not aware of anything that has 38mm to 48mm of armor on it in T4 through T7 - everything is either less than 37mm or more than 49mm.  Which makes IFHE worse than useless (as it enforces a loss of Fire Chance).

The Konigsberg's 150mm without IFHE will pen bow and stern armor of ANY ship it sees.  It will pen the deck armor of any ship it sees (I think). It will pen the upper deck hull armor of any cruiser it sees, but not of any BB. It should pen armors of secondaries for anything it sees. It won't pen turret armor of most cruisers or BBs it sees. It won't pen the main belt armor of any cruiser or BB.  It will pen every part of any DD.  IFHE won't change any of that.

DON'T use IFHE on any of the ships that have the /4.  It's only useful in very limited situations for those ships, and then really only for memes, not practical play.

Edited by LAnybody
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On 4/10/2019 at 1:25 AM, SireneRacker said:

T5 Cruisers are squishy against AP with two exceptions, Furutaka and Kirov.

I'm sorry, are you talking about the same old Furutaka and Kirov everyone knows and most sane people hate? 
There is no T5 cruiser that can be described as tanky when forced against anything bigger than destroyer caliber guns. Only HMS Exeter is in any position to take a beating and still survive thanks to her low citadel (much lower than Emerald, although if a battleship wants it and has good aim he will have it) and her heal.

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1 hour ago, Nine_Lives_ said:

I'm sorry, are you talking about the same old Furutaka and Kirov everyone knows and most sane people hate? 
There is no T5 cruiser that can be described as tanky when forced against anything bigger than destroyer caliber guns. Only HMS Exeter is in any position to take a beating and still survive thanks to her low citadel (much lower than Emerald, although if a battleship wants it and has good aim he will have it) and her heal.

Yes, I am talking about the exact same ships. Take Kirov as example, open her up in port, and look at her armor. Make sure to look from an angle that would resemble her while kiting.

Now, in front of your mental eye, imagine all those surface areas that a shell would have to hit in order to be a citadel, and where a shell would hit and bounce. You‘ll find that the citadel area (a bit at the aft) is not that large, while the relatively long belt is wonderful for bouncing every shell that might fly in. And unlike Königsberg you have a 50mm deck so no citadels through plunging fire.

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:19 AM, Whiskey_Rebel said:

Wow, thanks for the info. Is IFHE not worth it because the 1/4 rule normally gets you past the super structure, while 1/4+IFHE would make no difference on the superstructure but wold not get you through most hulls? I have a Rogue Wave captain in this thing, and I would love to pick up EL and EM rather than IFHE...

Play with the math, from the post you quoted :Smile_Default:

German 150mm HE

150mm / 4 = 37.5 or 38mm of armor needed to defeat this shell.

 

This alone lets German 150mm HE Pen A LOT of armor sections out there.  Consider also the armor thickness of the threats you're facing out there that Konigsberg & Nurnberg encounter in their Tier Brackets. (up to Tier VII for K-Berg, up to VIII for N-Berg).

Cruisers:  25mm armor section is very, very common, even in High Tier Cruisers.  There are some Cruisers with 27mm bows.  In the MM brackets these German CLs find themselves in, they encounter no Cruisers with abnormally high armor.  Tier VII Cruisers can encounter Super Cruisers from Tier IX with armor sections thicker than what's normal for a Cruiser, but they're still worse than BB armor.

 

Battleships:  For Mid Tier BBs that K-/N-Berg find themselves facing, 25mm is still the typical armor they find.  Hell, even in Tier VII, they have 25mm bows.  N-Berg can fight Tier VIII BBs with 32mm bows and decks, and even without IFHE, German 150mm HE will still pen that.  Now, Tier VIII USN BBs have 38mm decks, numerous German BBs have 50mm decks and your HE will not pen.  RU BBs do not get those crazy 60mm decks until Tier IX.  IJN BBs get 57mm-58mm decks starting at Tier IX.  They're out of Nurnberg's MM bracket.

 

Personal opinion:  For any captain that will be dedicated to play Konigsberg & Nurnberg, you don't need IFHE.  Hell, take DE to go with those guns and use the extra spare point elsewhere in the build.

 

But what about IFHE if taken for German 150mm guns?

(150mm / 4) x 1.3 = 48.75 or 49mm of armor needed to defeat this shell.

 

The only targets that open up for 150mm armed German CLs is for Nurnberg in Tier VI when she encounters Tier VIII USN BBs, which have 38mm decks.  But German BBs with 50mm decks will still defeat your HE.

 

But where this special German HE Pen really shines is in the 8" guns.  210mm (Yorck) and 203mm as found on Hipper-class, Roon, and Hindenburg.  The 203mm guns have an inherent ability to HE Pen 50mm armor sections, which is very convenient in getting regular HE Pens to make up for your low HE damage value.

German 203mm:  203mm / 4 = 50.75 or 51mm of armor needed to defeat this shell.

German 210mm (Yorck):  210mm / 4 = 52.5 or 53mm of armor needed to defeat this shell.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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