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awiggin

Leaving the CV debacle aside for the moment...

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What exactly is happening with Clan battles?

SINCE Clan Battles season 2 it appears they've been spiraling downward in numbers.....based on peak population charts.

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These numbers drops are across all servers.

So what's going on? Is CB already heading the way of Ranked?

 

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Remember that we just got out of a long period with multiple grindy multistage missions and there was a noticeable drop in population while people recovered. The amount of grinding necessary for space battles convinced be to basically ignore them. That burnout which made it impossible to get enough on Wednesday and Thursday is likely affecting other clans too.

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It's been said before by others, and more eloquently to boot, but playing an endless parade of "team" ranked battles gets stale and repetitive pretty quickly.  If we had the much larger server pop of either the EU or RU we would probably have more equitable MM for a lot longer into the season, but as the dabblers die off quickly, you end up facing only the other try hard clans looking to push all the way up, and doing it 15-20 times a night is not as mentally rewarding as other pursuits can be.

A map with a specific territories, rewards and opponents - like the old WoT map, would at least segregate the population a bit by skill and keep interest levels high while not fatiguing a clans members.

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I will have to agree with Brush about burnout.  Since the RN event last fall, it has been non stop events(often grindy).  Add in the stress of the CV rework, and the troubles CBs has been having(if you are interesting in that mode), i can imagine quite a few people are taking a break.  I find not playing for a few days refreshing. 

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Even in here it’s hard to escape talking about CVs, since I’ve seen it mentioned on the fourms or reddit the some clans lost a lot of players because the rework was the last straw. Also since the cv rework is still a “work in progress”, each patch after .8 has had a drastic impact on the meta. This constant changing of the meta in quick succession makes it hard to come up with tactics for the season. If you do come up with a good tactic, it could be useless after the next hot fix/patch.  

 Fact is although you might try and avoid taking about the rework, it’s affect on the game is just so strong. I’d say the playbase is in limbo waiting to see what WG does about the rework. 

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6 minutes ago, Desertfox51 said:

Even in here it’s hard to escape talking about CVs, since I’ve seen it mentioned on the fourms or reddit the some clans lost a lot of players because the rework was the last straw. Also since the cv rework is still a “work in progress”, each patch after .8 has had a drastic impact on the meta. This constant changing of the meta in quick succession makes it hard to come up with tactics for the season. If you do come up with a good tactic, it could be useless after the next hot fix/patch.  

 Fact is although you might try and avoid taking about the rework, it’s affect on the game is just so strong. I’d say the playbase is in limbo waiting to see what WG does about the rework. 

Combination of this and the fact that the regular surface ship meta is so firmly cemented in the Henri IV style....it's quite bland to a lot of folks.

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While I have yet to see a convincing analysis that points to the population fluctuations being "real", and especially due to CBs in any way, I will say that personally, the grindy event (Exeter, 100k space, and so on) missions are doing me no favors in terms of fun factor.

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1 hour ago, awiggin said:

These numbers drops are across all servers.

So what's going on? Is CB already heading the way of Ranked?

burnout?

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35 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

I will have to agree with Brush about burnout.  Since the RN event last fall, it has been non stop events(often grindy).  Add in the stress of the CV rework, and the troubles CBs has been having(if you are interesting in that mode), i can imagine quite a few people are taking a break.  I find not playing for a few days refreshing. 

It's actually been non stop grinding since the start of CB season 2, so, a year now. People are playing less and less "hard modes", because WG is burning us all out. Add in questionable choices by WG on top of that, and many just don't see grinding CBs for the minor amount of steel most will get to be worth it. I'm playing them, I find them fun and challenging, and yet I still feel the mental burnout. I'm not even playing WoWs today to give my mind a break.

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2 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

It's actually been non stop grinding since the start of CB season 2, so, a year now. People are playing less and less "hard modes", because WG is burning us all out. Add in questionable choices by WG on top of that, and many just don't see grinding CBs for the minor amount of steel most will get to be worth it. I'm playing them, I find them fun and challenging, and yet I still feel the mental burnout. I'm not even playing WoWs today to give my mind a break.

can't really argue this. I loved playing in CB, but with everything going on I just don't find the thrill of it anymore and I have 18 t10 ships. I have aa cruisers, HE spammers, Range HE threats, several radar ships and almost every dd minus groz,yy, and shim. Its just not fun anymore to play in cb. The rewards are lackluster, the environment feels extremely toxic and unfun. Unfun should be a the takeaway in all this. Do you enjoy CB no then well there you go.

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2 hours ago, BiggieD61 said:

It's been said before by others, and more eloquently to boot, but playing an endless parade of "team" ranked battles gets stale and repetitive pretty quickly.  If we had the much larger server pop of either the EU or RU we would probably have more equitable MM for a lot longer into the season, but as the dabblers die off quickly, you end up facing only the other try hard clans looking to push all the way up, and doing it 15-20 times a night is not as mentally rewarding as other pursuits can be.

A map with a specific territories, rewards and opponents - like the old WoT map, would at least segregate the population a bit by skill and keep interest levels high while not fatiguing a clans members.

Biggie, I don't agree with you on creating a WoT-like Clan Wars for WoWS.  IMO, the old WoT CWs was incredibly toxic, because the very, very top clans dominated the CWs maps and it was no fun for any clan that wasn't good enough to beat those top 20 clans.

IMO, the WoWS devs should do everything within their power to avoid turning WoWS organized clan play into the elitist, toxic craphole that was WoT's Clan Wars global map.

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2 hours ago, awiggin said:

What exactly is happening with Clan battles?

SINCE Clan Battles season 2 it appears they've been spiraling downward in numbers.....based on peak population charts.

  Hide contents

pK673Yx.png

f065hmt.png

CIUv0Vz.png

omM6dOO.png

 

These numbers drops are across all servers.

So what's going on? Is CB already heading the way of Ranked?

 

What does it matter if it's full of people interested in that gameplay? Is it affecting queues?

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1 hour ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

It's actually been non stop grinding since the start of CB season 2, so, a year now. People are playing less and less "hard modes", because WG is burning us all out. Add in questionable choices by WG on top of that, and many just don't see grinding CBs for the minor amount of steel most will get to be worth it. I'm playing them, I find them fun and challenging, and yet I still feel the mental burnout. I'm not even playing WoWs today to give my mind a break.

Agree, 90%.  There's too much heavy grindy missions, ranked battles, clan battles, and so on going on, nearly constantly (or so it seems).  We need more down time away from these heavy grinds.  I don't mind the Fly, Strike, Win (or whatever it's called) mission, because the final prize isn't a must have thing.  The entire FSW thing is nice and a light grind with relatively light rewards that veteran players probably don't feel a compelling need to force themselves to grind.  And yet at the same time, it's a little something to provide give you a pleasant goal for your play.  But when the mission is some nice premium ship, it's hard for many players to not want to do the grind, and then you're back on the treadmill.  Sigh.

I actually don't mind those so-called minor amounts of steel in CBs.  If they made the amounts a lot higher, then you'd be looking at being able to afford the next new steel ship every season or every other season.  And I'm not really sure that that's what WG wants.

 

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Two guys went to a serious CB clan, but a dozen+ other players simply stopped being active because of the CV rework and were removed from the clan (many of which played CB) and I can't reliably field CB teams anymore. I suspect most clans that aren't top 20 are having similar issues since our player base is very small to begin with.

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Burnout.

Times... Always the same, many complaints, WG does nada.

Same maps and modes and tier every time. Its totally stale. Variety desperately needed. Ship choices limited and highly repetitive.

Many clans lost players due to ReBork

Poor rewards.

Same few clans always dominant and will never be beaten. Why bother?

 

 

 

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The constant grinding is a problem, and the CV rework has chased a few people. It's a struggle to get 7 people on for clan battles every night, and when it's the regulars that are taking a break it's all most impossible. 

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My work schedule is such that I can maybe squeeze in one day a week for clan battles but have to get in line behind all the regulars so really have no motivation to even bother.

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It's easier to get more on during the Winter...cold weather, outside work tapering off, etc...with Springtime, more folks having to do yardwork, work picking up in general, camping, fishing, motorcycle trips...you name it...bottom line...there's a lot to do in the Spring, that there isn't in Winter...I'd imagine it's  much the same for other clans.

That's not even counting the ones that are just flat out burned out between the directives, grinding out the brit DD's, now the CV's...ranked, etc...I don't speak for anyone else, but I was waiting for CB's to have a break from randoms for a month or so, lol.

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First, it is because WG caved to the average potato and sold steel when it should have stayed as a reward for CB participation. Once they opened the steel gates to everyone, there's no incentive to keep playing CB.

Second, more people are jumping over to the larger, more competitive clans, leaving the smaller clans unable to compete. Even if they manage to scrap together a team, the smaller clans can't find success against the larger clans, so why would they play?

WG needs to revamp the 2 team system. 1 team for alpha, and 1 team for bravo. No clan should be able to run 2-3 alpha teams at the same time.

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Burnout.

Times... Always the same, many complaints, WG does nada.

Same maps and modes and tier every time. Its totally stale. Variety desperately needed. Ship choices limited and highly repetitive.

Many clans lost players due to ReBork

Poor rewards.

Same few clans always dominant and will never be beaten. Why bother?

 

 

 

For starters, the charts above tell us nothing about clan battles. They show a general downtrend on server population. You can't break out any clan battle data from that.

Taichunger's post is the most spot on.

CBs are the same maps and the same basic meta. About the only change over the last 18 months is the Henri tweaking things. Same old park at an island and radar stuff ad nauseum.

I am sure the CV rework has affected population, as has just general attrition.

CBs cause a lot of friction and stir things up. It's when people leave clans.

Lastly, there is definitely team stacking in the better clans. I try to recruit, but at this point no GDIs ever want to join a clan. The better clans are able to pluck people and build A, B and C type teams.

Still, I prefer CBs and ranked over randoms any day. Small breaks are needed in between. Non-competitive play is mostly boring and now, with the CV rework, just plain aggravating.

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I have noticed this with all the Wargaming titles. It is pretty much the same old thing, only the rewards change. The grind can be soul sucking and the pay off is really just the same old thing only with better vehicles fighting better vehicles so it is stagnant. Nothing is new, it is literally the same thing over and over and over... Not sure what the answer is. New modes are good and may help. Events are kind of meh because often it is just reskinned ships doing the same thing as what is seen in the normal game. Space Battles are a prime example of this. 

The sad fact is Wargaming is boring its players to death. When we ask for additional content, this just doesn't mean more ships. Make some dang maps. Make some dang modes, bastion mode for co-op is just a no brainer IMHO. Make some OPs. Slapping reskinned ships into normal PvP play is cute but it isn't especially interesting or new. 

Fix the issues players have been begging you to fix for years like signal mounting/demounting and the ability to mute "f" key spammers. Port lag in the game has gotten so bad that I often just quit the program because I am tired of waiting for my mouse selection to activate. 

I have gotten to the point where I don't really care. Normally I would quit a game that I was playing that was in this state, but feel because I have so much time and money into it that leaving seems wrong. All I can do now is not spend anything to minimize my losses later when I do finally get fed up and dump the games. Since WoWS is the only WG title I can not use gold/doubloons for their other titles, any chance of me playing one of those to break up the monotony is destroyed. It is far easier to find other games to play that are much different and more engaging. Isolating WoWS from the other titles is a disaster since you already have customers interested in the idea of games based on fighting vehicles using your product. Transitioning from one game to the other should be seamless, Wargaming has failed in this regard and in a very big way. 

Wargaming your products are old and stale and you are boring many of your customers. It is really time you took your own advice and git gud. 

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37 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have noticed this with all the Wargaming titles. It is pretty much the same old thing, only the rewards change. The grind can be soul sucking and the pay off is really just the same old thing only with better vehicles fighting better vehicles so it is stagnant. Nothing is new, it is literally the same thing over and over and over... Not sure what the answer is. New modes are good and may help. Events are kind of meh because often it is just reskinned ships doing the same thing as what is seen in the normal game. Space Battles are a prime example of this. 

The sad fact is Wargaming is boring its players to death. When we ask for additional content, this just doesn't mean more ships. Make some dang maps. Make some dang modes, bastion mode for co-op is just a no brainer IMHO. Make some OPs. Slapping reskinned ships into normal PvP play is cute but it isn't especially interesting or new. 

Fix the issues players have been begging you to fix for years like signal mounting/demounting and the ability to mute "f" key spammers. Port lag in the game has gotten so bad that I often just quit the program because I am tired of waiting for my mouse selection to activate. 

I have gotten to the point where I don't really care. Normally I would quit a game that I was playing that was in this state, but feel because I have so much time and money into it that leaving seems wrong. All I can do now is not spend anything to minimize my losses later when I do finally get fed up and dump the games. Since WoWS is the only WG title I can not use gold/doubloons for their other titles, any chance of me playing one of those to break up the monotony is destroyed. It is far easier to find other games to play that are much different and more engaging. Isolating WoWS from the other titles is a disaster since you already have customers interested in the idea of games based on fighting vehicles using your product. Transitioning from one game to the other should be seamless, Wargaming has failed in this regard and in a very big way. 

Wargaming your products are old and stale and you are boring many of your customers. It is really time you took your own advice and git gud. 

I needed a change, so I went over to Wots for a look … 

I was surprised how formulaic WG is in how they implement these games - very cookie cutter 

I even found Russian bias there lol … and plenty of fubar of course :)

Ironically, there is less rage in their forums … which is saying a lot when you consider gold ammo and wheelies :)

Edited by Commander_367

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I know about 8 in 10 of the people I played with stopped or massively reduced their playing time due to CV rework.  CVs are way better today, but like me I went and got into other games and simply don't have the urge to come back the same way I used to.  I was spending over $100 a month in this game and now average $0.

WG really screwed up - and its just the fact they were so willing to do that which made me not trust them going forward.  Id like to see some of the directors of the studio get fired and maybe then we can trust they'll do the right thing.

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9 hours ago, BiggieD61 said:

 

A map with a specific territories, rewards and opponents - like the old WoT map, would at least segregate the population a bit by skill and keep interest levels high while not fatiguing a clans members.

Yes please

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