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2 CV changes that could solve a lot of the frustration...

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I see a lot of people frustrated by the new CV rework, and how its made a lot of peoples favorite playstyles either more difficult, or altogether not viable. 
 

I would suggest two fairly simple changes that would address a few of the major issues with CV's.

1. Allow CV's to call in their fighters by hitting the consumable, then clicking on a map grid square to where they would like them to patrol. One big issue with the CV rework that gets little to no attention is how much less of an impact most CV's have in counter CV play. Pre-rework, the first 5 or so minutes at least were spent trying to get air superiority. Sometimes 2 good players could be battling over air superiority for the whole battle. This keeps the CV's busy, and makes it harder for them to consistently get good drops. Now however, fighters have much less of an impact, and its harder to make good use of them. Most players wont want to fly across the whole map just to drop fighters for their team. Often they are just use to draw AA fire, kill catapult fighters, or keep DD's spotted after the last drop. If the CV's could choose where to send their fighters from wherever they are, they would be more viable as a support tool. I would also suggest here that the fighters be unlimited (like DCP) with a cooldown.

2. Have it so that targets spotted by a CV's planes are only shown on the minimap, and not rendered for allies. Its apparent that CV's spotting is more troublesome now, especially for DD's. WG even seems to notice this, as they made some pretty drastic spotting changes in an attempt to solve it. WG's change made it a little more difficult to attack DD's that they're spotting for themselves, but ultimately did little to address the actual problem. With the added flexibility and micromanagement possible now that we're directly in control of our squadrons, there is nothing a DD could do if a carrier wants to keep them spotted. Stealth is a DD's main asset, and a CV basically completely removes it from them. If the CV could only show the enemy ships positions, without lighting them up for the team to shoot them, it would solve the issue of DD's getting focused down so hard, and push the CV back to a DOT role and not a DD counter/hunter. 

Let me know what you guys think, and hopefully WG devs will see this and at least give it a try. 

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I would love to see the one tier MM with a twist to help balance them as well.

Have Tier 9-10, 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 or 2/3 for all matches.

This would allow CVs to be top tier all the times and Wargaming could balance them better.

This would give tier 9s, 7s and 5s incentive to get to the next tier,

No radar tier 6 and below, etc.

No more being beat down for tier 6s and tier 8s when they are bottom tier against ships that are quantum leap better.

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43 minutes ago, N00T said:

I see a lot of people frustrated by the new CV rework, and how its made a lot of peoples favorite playstyles either more difficult, or altogether not viable. 
 

I would suggest two fairly simple changes that would address a few of the major issues with CV's.

1. Allow CV's to call in their fighters by hitting the consumable, then clicking on a map grid square to where they would like them to patrol. One big issue with the CV rework that gets little to no attention is how much less of an impact most CV's have in counter CV play. Pre-rework, the first 5 or so minutes at least were spent trying to get air superiority. Sometimes 2 good players could be battling over air superiority for the whole battle. This keeps the CV's busy, and makes it harder for them to consistently get good drops. Now however, fighters have much less of an impact, and its harder to make good use of them. Most players wont want to fly across the whole map just to drop fighters for their team. Often they are just use to draw AA fire, kill catapult fighters, or keep DD's spotted after the last drop. If the CV's could choose where to send their fighters from wherever they are, they would be more viable as a support tool. I would also suggest here that the fighters be unlimited (like DCP) with a cooldown.

This would be good as long as it uses up a fighter consumable slot. Could be an unintended consequence of spamming squadrons in quick succession to put out lots of fighters, but then they would be out of fighters for later and not attacking in the meantime. I think it will work even if people try to game the system on multiple fighter launches.

 

43 minutes ago, N00T said:

2. Have it so that targets spotted by a CV's planes are only shown on the minimap, and not rendered for allies. Its apparent that CV's spotting is more troublesome now, especially for DD's. WG even seems to notice this, as they made some pretty drastic spotting changes in an attempt to solve it. WG's change made it a little more difficult to attack DD's that they're spotting for themselves, but ultimately did little to address the actual problem. With the added flexibility and micromanagement possible now that we're directly in control of our squadrons, there is nothing a DD could do if a carrier wants to keep them spotted. Stealth is a DD's main asset, and a CV basically completely removes it from them. If the CV could only show the enemy ships positions, without lighting them up for the team to shoot them, it would solve the issue of DD's getting focused down so hard, and push the CV back to a DOT role and not a DD counter/hunter. 

Let me know what you guys think, and hopefully WG devs will see this and at least give it a try. 

If they do this, then the buffs to aerial spotting ranges for ships need to be rolled back. Also the spotting rewards for CVs should drastically shoot upwards.

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I don't mind these proposals, but would also add a couple more:

1. In the old system, an entire squadron had to be airborne before they could begin transiting to a waypoint.  Not anymore, as soon as the match starts, a CV launces and they're headed to their destination.  And at a MUCH faster pace than previously.  Force them to wait for the entire squadron to launch.

2. Slow down the planes.  They should NOT be in the enemy spawn within 45 seconds of a match starting.  This mechanic alone drastically changed the flow of this game.   My BBs used to always take CE before the rework.  No need anymore.  Stealth is a fantasy when 2 CVs are in the game.

My 2 cents.

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I like both sugestions, but what i dont like in second one is annoying dds trying snipe the cvs then you cant spot for your allieds, thats bad.

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24 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

I don't mind these proposals, but would also add a couple more:

1. In the old system, an entire squadron had to be airborne before they could begin transiting to a waypoint.  Not anymore, as soon as the match starts, a CV launces and they're headed to their destination.  And at a MUCH faster pace than previously.  Force them to wait for the entire squadron to launch.

2. Slow down the planes.  They should NOT be in the enemy spawn within 45 seconds of a match starting.  This mechanic alone drastically changed the flow of this game.   My BBs used to always take CE before the rework.  No need anymore.  Stealth is a fantasy when 2 CVs are in the game.

My 2 cents.

If you are going to slow down the planes, universal damage would need to be increased.  CVs damage currently relies on many attacks.  Reducing the number of possible attacks in a game would reduce the possible damage opportunities, so it would need to be compensated.

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The fighter idea is good...as is the tying it to a SHIP consumable with a cooldown.

It might be used to 'escort strikes' though against ships with self defense fighters...do you want that to be a viable use?

I'm on the fence about spotting changes...my preferred solution there is to have a period where the planes aren't available at match start.

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I'd tweak this suggestion by adding in a third point:

Add a consumable spotter squad that provides normal spotting to allies. It's basically what current fighter squads are used for now, but since the new fighters would be used to actually shoot planes then this would be how CVs provide spotting support and receive spotting damage rewards. The charges can be limited and on a long cooldown, they can be just as vulnerable to AA and now unable to defend themselves from fighter squads. But I believe spotting is something that a CV should be able to provide, albeit at a much reduced rate.

E: Another addition, automated CV CAP would include a spotter as well.

Edited by Flashtirade

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30 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

I don't mind these proposals, but would also add a couple more:

1. In the old system, an entire squadron had to be airborne before they could begin transiting to a waypoint.  Not anymore, as soon as the match starts, a CV launces and they're headed to their destination.  And at a MUCH faster pace than previously.  Force them to wait for the entire squadron to launch.

2. Slow down the planes.  They should NOT be in the enemy spawn within 45 seconds of a match starting.  This mechanic alone drastically changed the flow of this game.   My BBs used to always take CE before the rework.  No need anymore.  Stealth is a fantasy when 2 CVs are in the game.

My 2 cents.

If we slow down planes we definitely need to reduce the damage AA can put out. I am all for returning fighter control to the old RTS version and changing how CVs spot (perhaps just a delay to team spotting like radar is currently) but AA is a bit OP, well flak is anyways. Well maybe my problem is that we get so many planes in a squadron but can only attack with 1/3 or 1/4 of them at any one time, so you end up with alot of planes that just take damage for no reason. So maybe reduce the size of the squadron to two strikes and increase the size of the attacking groups by a plane. Having slower planes just means flak and DoT does alot more damage with is survivable for the first attack wave but the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, nope. 

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2 hours ago, Prothall said:

I would love to see the one tier MM with a twist to help balance them as well.

Have Tier 9-10, 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 or 2/3 for all matches.

This would allow CVs to be top tier all the times and Wargaming could balance them better.

This would give tier 9s, 7s and 5s incentive to get to the next tier,

No radar tier 6 and below, etc.

No more being beat down for tier 6s and tier 8s when they are bottom tier against ships that are quantum leap better.

Just no.  The "twist" is what's wrong here.

It might not be horrible if CVs were only +/-1 tier, which would prevent tier 8 CVs from being in the same battle as tier 6 CVs.  Or prevent tier 6 CVs (for example) from seeing tier 8 ships entirely.

The problem I have with this is that it then becomes an excuse, a rallying point for those who want +/-1 tier MM globally to demand it.  And I don't think that's such a great idea, nor do I think that WG would ever go for it.

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4 minutes ago, Bolivar_Shagnasty_ said:

Two better suggestions:

1. Refund premium CV's.

2. Delete the stupid things.

Easy, elegant, effective.

1. They did that already.  Lots of people liked them and kept them.  Now they are about to buy more of them.

2. WG is about to sell premium CVs again (see 1), they are not going anywhere.

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26 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

2. WG is about to sell premium CVs again (see 1), they are not going anywhere.

No, but the game is. :Smile_teethhappy:

Player population is circling the drain across four servers. Enjoy your Flappy Bird while you can. :Smile-_tongue:

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3 hours ago, Prothall said:

I would love to see the one tier MM with a twist to help balance them as well.

Have Tier 9-10, 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 or 2/3 for all matches.

This would allow CVs to be top tier all the times and Wargaming could balance them better.

This would give tier 9s, 7s and 5s incentive to get to the next tier,

No radar tier 6 and below, etc.

No more being beat down for tier 6s and tier 8s when they are bottom tier against ships that are quantum leap better.

Why should CVs be guaranteed top tier? That's batcrap crazy.

 

CVs should at best be +1/-1 so T10 sees T9. T8 sees T7-T9. T6 sees T5-T7. And T4 sees the T3-T5 it sees now.

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1 minute ago, Bolivar_Shagnasty_ said:

No, but the game is. :Smile_teethhappy:

Player population is circling the drain across four servers. Enjoy your Flappy Bird while you can. :Smile-_tongue:

:Smile_smile:

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20 minutes ago, Bolivar_Shagnasty_ said:

No, but the game is. :Smile_teethhappy:

Player population is circling the drain across four servers. Enjoy your Flappy Bird while you can. :Smile-_tongue:

It isn't.  This "myth" has been dis-proven a bunch of times but it's fun to perpetuate I guess.

Personally, just watching the players logged on numbers at the same times for the past few months, I have not seen it change.

Radar, Asashio, concealment changes, they were all going to "kill the game" according to many.  Here we are.

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11 minutes ago, Bolivar_Shagnasty_ said:

Player population is circling the drain across four servers.

No worries, WG will keep the lights on as long as there's 2 CV players left and one poor slob playing a Krasny Krim in Co-op.

Right?

Riiight???

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

Why should CVs be guaranteed top tier? That's batcrap crazy.

 

CVs should at best be +1/-1 so T10 sees T9. T8 sees T7-T9. T6 sees T5-T7. And T4 sees the T3-T5 it sees now.

Exactly, Kiz.  His suggestion was absolutely crazy, like I said above.

The problem with having CVs (only) being +/-1 tier is that it would become a rallying cry for making all MM +/-1 tier.

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1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

It isn't.  This "myth" has been dis-proven a bunch of times but it's fun to perpetuate I guess.

Personally, just watching the players logged on numbers at the same times for the past few months, I have not seen it change.

Radar, Asashio, concealment changes, they were all going to "kill the game" according to many.  Here we are.

Have a thumbs up to help counter the DD mafia and sock puppets.  They appear to be out in force today.

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6 hours ago, N00T said:

I see a lot of people frustrated by the new CV rework, and how its made a lot of peoples favorite playstyles either more difficult, or altogether not viable. 
 

I would suggest two fairly simple changes that would address a few of the major issues with CV's.

1. Allow CV's to call in their fighters by hitting the consumable, then clicking on a map grid square to where they would like them to patrol. One big issue with the CV rework that gets little to no attention is how much less of an impact most CV's have in counter CV play. Pre-rework, the first 5 or so minutes at least were spent trying to get air superiority. Sometimes 2 good players could be battling over air superiority for the whole battle. This keeps the CV's busy, and makes it harder for them to consistently get good drops. Now however, fighters have much less of an impact, and its harder to make good use of them. Most players wont want to fly across the whole map just to drop fighters for their team. Often they are just use to draw AA fire, kill catapult fighters, or keep DD's spotted after the last drop. If the CV's could choose where to send their fighters from wherever they are, they would be more viable as a support tool. I would also suggest here that the fighters be unlimited (like DCP) with a cooldown.

2. Have it so that targets spotted by a CV's planes are only shown on the minimap, and not rendered for allies. Its apparent that CV's spotting is more troublesome now, especially for DD's. WG even seems to notice this, as they made some pretty drastic spotting changes in an attempt to solve it. WG's change made it a little more difficult to attack DD's that they're spotting for themselves, but ultimately did little to address the actual problem. With the added flexibility and micromanagement possible now that we're directly in control of our squadrons, there is nothing a DD could do if a carrier wants to keep them spotted. Stealth is a DD's main asset, and a CV basically completely removes it from them. If the CV could only show the enemy ships positions, without lighting them up for the team to shoot them, it would solve the issue of DD's getting focused down so hard, and push the CV back to a DOT role and not a DD counter/hunter. 

Let me know what you guys think, and hopefully WG devs will see this and at least give it a try. 

 

Point # 1    WG has made their best attempt to not allow very proficient CV pilots to trump a lessor one and destroy that player's allies a chance at victory due to undo influence.  Its debatable as to it success.. personally, though I do feel CV's influence on matches has been reduced.     I think this mechanic is worrisome for this reason?. 

Point # 2    This would be pretty much on the verge of making DDs immune to carriers at all?  You do realize that a CV can do the same thing to any other class in the game right?  spot so others can shoot?      Planes of all types have been able to spot DDs since this game was in alpha?     There were carriers pre-rework that could fly up to 6 squadrons all over the map..  spotting DDs from almost 3 times the range that a single squad from a CV can now?   How did anyone ever play them prior to now?  I think broken RTS CVs and their absence from ques has made a whole group of DD players become dependent on a playstyle that the game never meant to provide with all the classes present.    DD players clearly are going to hold onto that Meta kicking and screaming, before figuring out other ways to play the ships except as solo stealth warriors.  which according to latest class pop. numbers,  they still can in around 1/2 their matches.                        

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44 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Exactly, Kiz.  His suggestion was absolutely crazy, like I said above.

The problem with having CVs (only) being +/-1 tier is that it would become a rallying cry for making all MM +/-1 tier.

Eh, they are already demanding +1/-1. If it was stuck to CVs only, the salt would really flood the forums. :Smile_glasses: I think that +1/-1 for CVs may be the only way to go. CVs don't have to face AA two tiers above them and the other ships don't have to face a CV that is two tiers above them. Win/win for everyone. Would make the balancing of the planes and AA easier I think.

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2 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

 

Point # 1    WG has made their best attempt to not allow very proficient CV pilots to trump a lessor one and destroy that player's allies a chance at victory due to undo influence.  Its debatable as to it success.. personally, though I do feel CV's influence on matches has been reduced.     I think this mechanic is worrisome for this reason?. 

Point # 2    This would be pretty much on the verge of making DDs immune to carriers at all?  You do realize that a CV can do the same thing to any other class in the game right?  spot so others can shoot?      Planes of all types have been able to spot DDs since this game was in alpha?     There were carriers pre-rework that could fly up to 6 squadrons all over the map..  spotting DDs from almost 3 times the range that a single squad from a CV can now?   How did anyone ever play them prior to now?  I think broken RTS CVs and their absence from ques has made a whole group of DD players become dependent on a playstyle that the game never meant to provide with all the classes present.    DD players clearly are going to hold onto that Meta kicking and screaming, before figuring out other ways to play the ships except as solo stealth warriors.  which according to latest class pop. numbers,  they still can in around 1/2 their matches.                        

Well said. :Smile_honoring:

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4 hours ago, Flashtirade said:

I'd tweak this suggestion by adding in a third point:

Add a consumable spotter squad that provides normal spotting to allies. It's basically what current fighter squads are used for now, but since the new fighters would be used to actually shoot planes then this would be how CVs provide spotting support and receive spotting damage rewards. The charges can be limited and on a long cooldown, they can be just as vulnerable to AA and now unable to defend themselves from fighter squads. But I believe spotting is something that a CV should be able to provide, albeit at a much reduced rate.

E: Another addition, automated CV CAP would include a spotter as well.

Not a bad suggestion,, Make 2 different types of consumables one for shooting planes and one for spotting. But this will cause some problems.. First, the service cost of CV, which already high enough will drastically rise due to additional plane losses and unique consumable. Second, they will have to increase the EXP, and economy gain for these spotting from CV, in which, other surface ship players will feel, lets say, Cheated.. And last but not least,  in doing so they will have to increase the spotting range a whole lot more, and im saying the spotting range of UNNERFED Attack planes we had before than the regular fighters, since the planes are "Spotters", which will result in a Additional "Whinning" from the DD mafia, especially from IJN DD players.

Edited by Nagato_Kai__Ni

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1) Agreed. Would be nice to direct fighters where you need them to go instead of where you yourself are. Mind you, that's on the caveat that fighters have to actually fly from where you are to that destination point. Would be ridiculously cheese if fighters could instantly spawn anywhere on the map at will.

2) No, no , heeeeeell no. People who don't play CVs don't realize that spotting is the only support CVs can offer their team. CVs can't tank. CVs can't cap unless the entire enemy team is far far outside their concealment range. Hell, CVs at the start of the match can't even attack since enemy ships in the first few minutes are all clumped up into an AA no fly zone. The ONLY thing CVs can do at the start is spot for their team. And WG made this a team game ... you can't have a team game if you're playing a ship that offers no team support whatsoever.

Also note that CV spotting is MUCH weaker than DD spotting. Air spotting ranges are not only much smaller then surface spotting, but planes actually need to fly through cruiser AA to spot them as many of them have an air spotting range equal to their long range auras. Also, the massive reduction of air spotting ranges means that DDs with their AA turned off are nearly impossible to spot unless the CV player knows exactly where they are. I've played DDs several times where I was actually capping, but moving around and the CV player could not find me at all. Also note that unlike CVs, DDs can both spot AND launch torpedo attacks without being spotted. A CV who attacks ceases to spot for their team after a couple of attack runs. So it's often an either or situation.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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