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TheCmay

Grind to Des Moines

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And yes, had to look up how to spell Des Moines on the wiki. Great name USN.

 

I've refused to go down (or up?) the USN tech tree, mostly because the NA server has enough 'murica already (swore an oath the the queen, should at least represent). But space battles gave me the Galaxy (aka Des Moines lite) and I'm hooked. Its the ROF on the 203's, now I need my daily fix. Damn you weegee :p

 

So I'm asking for advice, from all those who have ground the USN CC's, even pre split. I've played 3 games in the Pensacola so far, that's the extent of my US heavy cruiser experience. Looking for tips/tricks/stories/builds. Thanks in advance.

 

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Shoot at everything you can hit, burn the world, but do it from behind island cover or at full gallop.  I suppose its the same for every ship in the game.  Give more damage than you get and you will have more fun than if the reverse occurs.  USN cruisers are squishy but breathe dragon fire under the proper circumstances.

Good luck.

 

 

Edited by USSLangley

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Des Memes is one awesome ship, my favorite TX cruiser so far.

Use islands, use HE, use AP on broadside targers, carefull with angle, carefull with bbs.

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why don't you just do it the easy way and get the Salem with coal...:Smile_amazed: 

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I enjoyed the USN grind pre split. 

Pensocola broadsides should be rare, safe, and extremely infrequent. I remember getting caught broadside just turning and getting deleted. You want to fight at max range early and only plan to use your front or rear guns. Never sail in a straight line. You can close the range as the game thins and the AP is great on cruisers. That is the general way to play randoms as you move up. Stay at range. Don’t show broadside. Close late and use AP. New Orleans with its low detection is good at ambushing dds and cruisers. Balti and DM aren’t as stealthy but you can still hide with islands and wait on a cruiser to come through. Never played the buffalo 

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I've recently been working on getting the Des Moines myself (thank the state of Iowa for the name!) and did do a decent push during the split.  I found the Pensacola pretty challenging personally and almost a glass cannon.  Treating it almost like a faster BB helped me live a little longer.  On that one, my advice is just push through to the New Orleans as I feel that got better (for my play style personally anyway).

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Pensacola is much better than people give her credit for. Load AP as your primary ammunition and focus on enemy cruisers. Use islands to sneak around and catch people's broadsides from unexpected angles. Spam HE at BBs if you have nothing better to do.The mid tier USN CAs can be punishing to play, but can also be really rewarding when you get it right. They will teach you about any deficiencies in your positioning, the hard way.

When I ground the line out I wasn't expecting a fun experience because until then I'd only heard bad things about Pensa. But I enjoyed her way more than I anticipated. And with New Orleans and Baltimore it was much the same, in fact Baltimore is now one of my favorite T8s.

And then Des Moines... whew... talk about a cherry on top.

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5 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

I've recently been working on getting the Des Moines myself (thank the state of Iowa for the name!)

The explorers of New France have a lot more of a US legacy then people realise.  After all,  you lot bought 1/3 of your country from the French.

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1 hour ago, TheCmay said:

So I'm asking for advice, from all those who have ground the USN CC's, even pre split. I've played 3 games in the Pensacola so far, that's the extent of my US heavy cruiser experience. Looking for tips/tricks/stories/builds. Thanks in advance.

do the grind in scenarios with a team if possible.

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17 minutes ago, Shinnidan said:

why don't you just do it the easy way and get the Salem with coal...:Smile_amazed: 

B-b-b-b-ut that's cheating...

 Seriously, though, the US CA's like to play the fire support and flanker roles.   You don't want to be the center of attention- you want to be the guy exploiting that situation by hammering the piss out of enemies whose guns are pointed elsewhere!

  The AP is seriously good- use it, and use it often.  It punishes cruisers HARD, and can gouge big chunks of health off a broadsiding BB.   If you can work your way in close without dying, your guns are utterly lethal.   Lol- I actually smacked a Moskva for 8 citadels and a normal pen in one glorious salvo the other day with DM, and was reloaded and him dead before he could line up a shot on me, lol.  (I think MY grandmother felt that one)

  They're also all capable vs CV's.

At higher tiers, you can equip Def AA; Hydro; AND radar at the same time- which gives you a lot of utility. (and makes DD's hate you)

 Pensacola is a real challenge to master, because it's a light cruiser with heavy cruiser armament- which is also seen from space.   You DO, however, get 10 of those USN 8" rifles- and have the same number of barrels aft as you do forward.   Mastering this one will teach you a lot.

  None of the rest are THAT squishy, nor do they have concealment as terrible.   N'Orlins is a joy to play at tier 7;  Balti adds thicker bow armor and a faster reload;  Buffalo has 12 guns (with the trade off of slightly reduced maneuverability, and a slightly slower reload- but you get a heal and the tier 9 upgrade), and can crush things under the weight of all those shells;  DM is an 8" machine gun with ridiculous AA.

  Just don't get over aggressive or carried away, and look for opportunities to get shots at broadside enemies.

  I don't "do" Randoms because I hate hugging islands- but doing so is recommended for US cruisers in pvp.   Slowish shells means you can lob over islands others can't.   At the end of the day, they ARE cruisers.   Giving BB's a good opportunity is a quick way to get sent back to port early.  It's just that your AP allows you to return the favor when it's YOU in the driver's seat.

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1 hour ago, TheCmay said:

And yes, had to look up how to spell Des Moines on the wiki. Great name USN.

 

I've refused to go down (or up?) the USN tech tree, mostly because the NA server has enough 'murica already (swore an oath the the queen, should at least represent). But space battles gave me the Galaxy (aka Des Moines lite) and I'm hooked. Its the ROF on the 203's, now I need my daily fix. Damn you weegee :p

 

So I'm asking for advice, from all those who have ground the USN CC's, even pre split. I've played 3 games in the Pensacola so far, that's the extent of my US heavy cruiser experience. Looking for tips/tricks/stories/builds. Thanks in advance.

 

You definitely want to get all the free space camo w current event. Buffalo grind may not be kind.  That said if you find lower Tier 6 7 in Random sucks then definitely grind ops.  Mount up special flags and you’ll breeze by.  I passed thru Baltimore via Cherry Blossom with Special Flags; unfortunately that ops isn’t available.  You can use all the FreeXP to skip Buffalo or save it for Azumahaha.

Do you like gun boating DD?  If yes get the DM UU with Engine Mod.  You’ll be hopping from island to island shoot shoot oh crap torps full speed reverse toro beat Haha DD then full speed forward shoot shoot shiet you sped up too fast crap Yamato shells hard left slam on brakes BAM almost half HP gone crap GK shells coming and Shima torps Full Speed ahead hard left behind island and shooting at the same time.  Add commas where needed above. 

Enjoy. My win rate sucks in DM but it’s fun playing it like a DD. 

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For Pensacola, putting MBM1 in slot 3 and EM are important. Keep EM for the whole line. SI is good as they all have lots of consumables. PT and CE are a given.

 

IFHE is not needed, unless the RU BBs introduce a <43mm barrier, as 203mm HE pens 32mm of armor without IFHE. The AA is stong, so BFT/MFCAA & then AFT would be the order I would use if you don't like CVs pestering you. MFCAA first if you like swapping AA sectors and BFT if you don't. BoS and FP are good for slowing down fire spam. AR is always good.

 

PT, EM, SI, CE, BFT, MFCAA/AFT, AR for AA build. 

PT, EM, SI, CE, BoS, FP, AR for survival.

PT, EM, SI, CE, PM, BOS, BFT, AR for a hybrid build.

 

MAM1 or if you hate planes, AAM1 to make the AA last longer in slot 1.

 

DCSM1 very slightly lowers the fire chance or PM1 for if your engine is hit, which is not often. Either is fine for slot 2.

 

AAM1 for slot 3 to give you +2 flak clouds for any build. The more you have, the further they spread out making them harder to dodge. The exception is Pensacola which needs MBM1.

 

PM2 for faster starts. US cruisers are island huggers, so starting faster is better. Stacks with DM UU really well (~8s to 27 kts). Otherwise go for the DCSM2 as it has -15% fire/flood and stacks with BoS.

 

CE mod of course in slot 5. Steering gears mod if you want to WASD to victory from range.

 

Slot 6 is the UU slot. Like I mentioned above, you can accelerate from 0 to 27 knots in roughly 8 seconds with the UU and PM2. Gun range is the next best IMO as you can stay further away from the big boys to HE them. Lots of people like the gun reload. AAM2 if you really, really hate planes as is buffs both continuous and flak cloud DPS. I did this for Salem as it has better AA than the DM.

 

Island/smoke hug (you have to borrow smoke). Or stay at the edge of your gun range and WASD. Kiting is a very good idea. I am a co-op main, but I take my ships into random battles. I did well with the T9 Baltimore and the T10 DM.

 

Edit, knew I was forgetting something. At T8+ US CAs get improved AP pen at angles. You start checking for bounce at 60° instead of at 45°. So use AP on those cruisers that show a little to much side.

Edit part 2. Messed that up.  Here is the right info from @HazeGrayUnderway  

41 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

USN CA AP have a universal benefit:  They get special AP bounce angles.  Angles that normal AP would get bounced, the USN CA AP shells may not.

The older model of USN CA guns from Tier VI-VII are more level in their shell arcs than the Tier VIII-X ones in the line.  Tech Tree High Tier USN CAs, including Premium Salem, get the heavier SHS AP shells that pen harder.  A few guys get surprised by that transition to more floaty shells, but since you tried "Space Des Moines" then you already know what to expect once you hit Baltimore in Tier VIII.

 

 

Edited by Kizarvexis

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14 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

B-b-b-b-ut that's cheating...

 Seriously, though, the US CA's like to play the fire support and flanker roles.   You don't want to be the center of attention- you want to be the guy exploiting that situation by hammering the piss out of enemies whose guns are pointed elsewhere!

  The AP is seriously good- use it, and use it often.  It punishes cruisers HARD, and can gouge big chunks of health off a broadsiding BB.   If you can work your way in close without dying, your guns are utterly lethal.   Lol- I actually smacked a Moskva for 8 citadels and a normal pen in one glorious salvo the other day with DM, and was reloaded and him dead before he could line up a shot on me, lol.  (I think MY grandmother felt that one)

  They're also all capable vs CV's.

At higher tiers, you can equip Def AA; Hydro; AND radar at the same time- which gives you a lot of utility. (and makes DD's hate you)

 Pensacola is a real challenge to master, because it's a light cruiser with heavy cruiser armament- which is also seen from space.   You DO, however, get 10 of those USN 8" rifles- and have the same number of barrels aft as you do forward.   Mastering this one will teach you a lot.

  None of the rest are THAT squishy, nor do they have concealment as terrible.   N'Orlins is a joy to play at tier 7;  Balti adds thicker bow armor and a faster reload;  Buffalo has 12 guns (with the trade off of slightly reduced maneuverability, and a slightly slower reload- but you get a heal and the tier 9 upgrade), and can crush things under the weight of all those shells;  DM is an 8" machine gun with ridiculous AA.

  Just don't get over aggressive or carried away, and look for opportunities to get shots at broadside enemies.

  I don't "do" Randoms because I hate hugging islands- but doing so is recommended for US cruisers in pvp.   Slowish shells means you can lob over islands others can't.   At the end of the day, they ARE cruisers.   Giving BB's a good opportunity is a quick way to get sent back to port early.  It's just that your AP allows you to return the favor when it's YOU in the driver's seat.

well...if you have the coal to burn....why not...its there for you to pick...unless you have better things to get with the coal? :Smile_amazed:

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3 minutes ago, Shinnidan said:

well...if you have the coal to burn....why not...its there for you to pick...unless you have better things to get with the coal? :Smile_amazed:

I know I got it and it is a nice AA boat with a really good heal. Got it for Christmas and I'm about 12k coal from Jean Bart.

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6 minutes ago, Shinnidan said:

well...if you have the coal to burn....why not...its there for you to pick...unless you have better things to get with the coal? :Smile_amazed:

  Nope, I didn't- so I spent mine on Salem, lol.  (and Charleston, and a French special commander)  I already had Des Moines, though.

 I was just thinking he might be in for a rude awakening, if he skipped through the entire line like that.

 My coal has also rebounded, and I, also, am getting fairly close to JB.

Wichita is also a nice premium CA for lovers of the line.

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What everybody else said, plus - when you're shooting the BB's, once you've got them lit up and their crews are nice and toasty warm and not bored anymore:

You can switch to AP and get some much less repairable damage in on their superstructures.  Alternately, if you have a wide angle shot on a BB you can generally pen both bow and stern BB plating too.

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48 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

I was just thinking he might be in for a rude awakening, if he skipped through the entire line like that.

I sure as hell suffered from one originally with DM...

...my path to it was Chester, St Louis, Cleveland (T6,) Des Moines.

48 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

 ...and Charleston...

mweh heh heh...

Now I have two St Louis types to troll with.

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Get the Salem. "Basically" the same boat with trade offs. No hydro, spotter plane, or as long of radar. Does have perma camo, zombie heal, and a smaller citadel? I think?

Main guns same, which is like saying This K9 unit will bite you to death, just like this other K9 unit will bite you to death. Both can dish out the punishment with rapid reloading 8" rifles. Both have pretty thick frontal bow armor that can bounce all DD, most CA, CL, and some BB AP when angle on bow.

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Since your intent is on the CA part of the split, OP, this keeps things simple.

USN CA AP have a universal benefit:  They get special AP bounce angles.  Angles that normal AP would get bounced, the USN CA AP shells may not.

The older model of USN CA guns from Tier VI-VII are more level in their shell arcs than the Tier VIII-X ones in the line.  Tech Tree High Tier USN CAs, including Premium Salem, get the heavier SHS AP shells that pen harder.  A few guys get surprised by that transition to more floaty shells, but since you tried "Space Des Moines" then you already know what to expect once you hit Baltimore in Tier VIII.

USN CAs with their AP shells are at their best punishing Cruisers.  DDs are your highest priority to attack but you need to prey on CAs when you can

Radar access starts in Tier VIII for USN CAs.

AA in general ranges from good to downright excellent.  Gets better as you climb the tiers.

Another characteristic is that USN & German CAs from Tier VIII on get the 27mm bow.  It's very useful when you get to square off with a 381mm or smaller armed BB and face tank their shells.  But 406mm+ AP, they'll crash right through the bow.

 

Do be careful with your Citadel in USN CAs.  You don't have French Cruiser Engine Boost shennanigans, IJN Cruiser Ninja concealment, nor RN CL Smoke to bail you out of trouble.  Your handling is decent, your concealment is in between IJN Cruisers and the BB-like concealment of French / RU / German Cruisers.  Since USN CAs in general aren't exactly known for agility nor speed, it's not that hard for BBs to nail you.  USN CA Citadels are pretty up there.  Buffalo and DM-class in general have very exposed citadels.

 

Edit:  Don't be shy of using the AP shells against BBs in close range, especially with the SHS AP.  DM-class if they get around the sides of a BB can quickly cause tons of damage with AP and the super fast reloads.  If the range is too far to get good AP pen on the sides of BBs, then rake the sides of the base of the superstructure for FAT AP PENS.  Shell switching, especially on DM-class, is important.  To help in the shell switching in a tense fight, some guys have adopted Expert Loader.  The normal reload of DM-class is 5.5 seconds, so EL cutting that down can make DM very dangerous, especially in a Cruiser vs Cruiser fight.  You can keep your HE loaded, spamming away.  The other Cruiser feels the pressure of the HE spam and feels compelled to show a bit of sides to use more of their guns or use torps.  You can anticipate this with DM-class, and with Expert Loader, you'll have something like a 2 second switch from HE -> AP and punish the ever living hell out of the guy.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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4 hours ago, TheCmay said:

And yes, had to look up how to spell Des Moines on the wiki. Great name USN.

 

I've refused to go down (or up?) the USN tech tree, mostly because the NA server has enough 'murica already (swore an oath the the queen, should at least represent). But space battles gave me the Galaxy (aka Des Moines lite) and I'm hooked. Its the ROF on the 203's, now I need my daily fix. Damn you weegee :p

 

So I'm asking for advice, from all those who have ground the USN CC's, even pre split. I've played 3 games in the Pensacola so far, that's the extent of my US heavy cruiser experience. Looking for tips/tricks/stories/builds. Thanks in advance.

 

41 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

USN CA AP have a universal benefit:  They get special AP bounce angles.  Angles that normal AP would get bounced, the USN CA AP shells may not.

The older model of USN CA guns from Tier VI-VII are more level in their shell arcs than the Tier VIII-X ones in the line.  Tech Tree High Tier USN CAs, including Premium Salem, get the heavier SHS AP shells that pen harder.  A few guys get surprised by that transition to more floaty shells, but since you tried "Space Des Moines" then you already know what to expect once you hit Baltimore in Tier VIII.

 

Thanks HazeGrayUnderway. I messed that up earlier.

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4 hours ago, TheCmay said:

And yes, had to look up how to spell Des Moines on the wiki. Great name USN.

 

I've refused to go down (or up?) the USN tech tree, mostly because the NA server has enough 'murica already (swore an oath the the queen, should at least represent). But space battles gave me the Galaxy (aka Des Moines lite) and I'm hooked. Its the ROF on the 203's, now I need my daily fix. Damn you weegee :p

 

So I'm asking for advice, from all those who have ground the USN CC's, even pre split. I've played 3 games in the Pensacola so far, that's the extent of my US heavy cruiser experience. Looking for tips/tricks/stories/builds. Thanks in advance.

 

It's absolutely worth the grind. I have the entire line, with the DSM Legendary Module as well. To me, and free advice is worth what you pay for it, the Legendary Module is absolutely worth the extra effort.

 

Pensacola - aka, the PepsiCan - Nice boat and good guns for the tier, but as the nickname implies it has little armor. Gets punished hard if you give broadsides to just about anything. Don't get too close.

New Orleans - better than people giver her credit for. I played the NO more as an open water boat at long-is range. Burn things. Burn them often. Keep burning them.

Baltimore - perhaps the best overall T8 CA (a very arguable point). Use the rocks, forget you have aft guns. Burn things more. This is the beginnings of the rock-hugging in earnest. If you position correctly, you've got one heck of a boat here.

Buffalo - an oddity that many people dislike. I play her as an open water CA with maximum rudder shift mods and scout planes. No radar. A potent force at mid-range with very powerful AP from all those dozens of guns. She's tricky, but in the right hands a lot of fun.

Des Moines - the ultimate goal. I've actually charged wounded BBs and won. The Legendary Mod - used properly - can make you very hard to hit.

 

For open water, I take all the rudder mods I can. Don't slow down, twist and turn, run and gun. This will help if you ever decide to run the IJN CA line.

 

For close support, you're the dreaded radar boat. Get a rock to one side of you to protect your sides, close to the zone your DDs are trying to get. My job in clan wars is either DM or Shima, and I've held plenty of zones in the DM.

 

The entire line is a lot of fun, and I've kept almost all of my USN CAs.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Grflrgl said:

Buffalo - an oddity that many people dislike. I play her as an open water CA with maximum rudder shift mods and scout planes. No radar. A potent force at mid-range with very powerful AP from all those dozens of guns. She's tricky, but in the right hands a lot of fun.

I really like my Buffalo. It is a good ranged cruiser, (especially for the USN line). One of the fatal flaws of the DM/Salem is alligator arm range. Making them very dependent on island and smoke cover from other ships.

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10 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I really like my Buffalo. It is a good ranged cruiser, (especially for the USN line). One of the fatal flaws of the DM/Salem is alligator arm range. Making them very dependent on island and smoke cover from other ships.

I enjoy the Buffalo as well. Didn't mean to make it sound like I don't. Just that many people don't seem to like her much.

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8 hours ago, Shinnidan said:

why don't you just do it the easy way and get the Salem with coal...:Smile_amazed: 

That's what I did.  I used the coupon to get the Jean Bart the day it came out and in that time was able to save up enough Coal to the get the Salem last week... not a bad grind at all.
I've been on the Baltimore and Cleveland since the tree split and can't find motivation to play more than a game a week in each.  Coal is the way to go.

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Back before the line split the USN CA line was this odd mess of long/mid range spammers and short range island campers. It was the first line I ever ground to completion, and it took me a shocking number of battles without premium time, camos or flags. The playstyle as you progress up the line used to vary back and forth: the StLouis is a mid range turning HE spammer with BB-level survivability. The Pheonix and Omaha used to be HE spammers who survived by out-ranging all the BBs (though I think this advantage has eroded over time), but who struggled in close range brawls with other cruisers. The tier 6 cleveland was an island camping beast that could crush same tier BBs and cruisers in brawls, but only with IFHE (the only ship in the line which benefitted from this skill). Then pepsi was back to a long range AP spammer, but this time with the ability to also brawl enemy cruisers at medium range. Then the rest of the line was this odd mix that didn't commit to either playstyle and so was kinda meh at everything, until you got to the DM at the top which is just king camp.

If the line could have been said to have a unifying theme, it was of cruisers that loved being at medium range (no torps for close range, and bad dispersion/shell travel time at longer ranges), but that had no real way to protect themeselves from BB shells at those ranges. This contradiction is laid bare whenever you find yourself in situations or matches where no BBs are present. This is very rare, but occasionally you end up in ranked battles, or on flanks or after a few ships have been destroyed, with no BBs to worry about. Suddenly the cautious, somewhat clunky playstyles are gone, and USN CAs turn into these monsters that are capable of pretty much destroying anything they meet by simply pushing into medium-to-close range, and using the combination of their decent cruiser armour and ridiculous firepower to out-DPM entire teams. I still remember a ranked battle where I realized early on there were no BBs to worry about. So I simply sailed my DM down the middle of the map through some islands where nobody expects a DM to sail in a normal match, and proceeded to crush about 3/4 of the enemy team one by one. It was pretty insane how nobody could stop me.

My impression is that this overall pattern of whiplash between different playstyles but with an emphasis on medium range has not really changed since the line split. That said, I haven't actually re-ground the line, so I can't be sure of that.

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