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JoeSlackman

Still No Relief from AA Hell

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Fellow Captains,

I was hoping that the latest update would make CV play fun again.  I was hoping that all my planes would not burst into flame upon contact with enemy cruisers or making a single run on a battleship.  

Why is WoW killing CVs off?

Best Regards,

Joe

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It’s not as easy to hit stuff as it used to be, but it forces you to think about your attacks.  Personally, I think it’s way more fun now than before despite a hard adjustment period.

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16 minutes ago, JoeSlackman said:

Fellow Captains,

I was hoping that the latest update would make CV play fun again.  I was hoping that all my planes would not burst into flame upon contact with enemy cruisers or making a single run on a battleship.  

Why is WoW killing CVs off?

Best Regards,

Joe

Do you have aircraft armor and the additional aircraft hp captain skills?

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Also, you need the aircraft speed skills.  But, I agree that AA is still jacked up.  A lone ship on a flank (I’m looking at you US ships) shouldn’t be able to single handedly wipe out your entire squadron without launching any ordinance.  AA needs toned down a bit.  You should still lose all of your aircraft, if you sail into 3-4 ships grouped up, but not by one ship alone, with a few rare exceptions. 

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I got the Midway and the AA is ferocious. I have better luck playing the Lexington. At least sometimes I end up as top tier and can farm damage. Seems when playing Midway the AA is so fierce I'm"F" keying after first attack to keep from being deplaned. That is if the whole squadron isn't wiped from the air before even dropping ordinance. Seems there is always a AA monster lurking and spotting me before I do them. I haven't mastered the skill of dodging flak. It seems this method works better for me. Just try to spot and wait till the game progresses a little and some of the red fleet has their AA damaged by capital ships from my team. Then attack.

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1 minute ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I got the Midway and the AA is ferocious. I have better luck playing the Lexington. At least sometimes I end up as top tier and can farm damage. Seems when playing Midway the AA is so fierce I'm"F" keying after first attack to keep from being deplaned. That is if the whole squadron isn't wiped from the air before even dropping ordinance. Seems there is always a AA monster lurking and spotting me before I do them. I haven't mastered the skill of dodging flak. It seems this method works better for me. Just try to spot and wait till the game progresses a little and some of the red fleet has their AA damaged by capital ships from my team. Then attack.

 

If you know you will only get one pass, drop ordnance early to reduce the planes in your squadron so you have more planes leftover later. Then go on your attack with a smaller squadron to minimize losses.

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50 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

 

If you know you will only get one pass, drop ordnance early to reduce the planes in your squadron so you have more planes leftover later. Then go on your attack with a smaller squadron to minimize losses.

Ah thanks! It seems any... ANY pass is one pass

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I play CVs now every once in a while. I don't have an issue with the AA at it's current state. It use to be worse. I also think that if a player specs for it, then it's their right to not be annoyed or dead because of a CV. It would be like a DD complaining that he can't survive in a one on one with an Atlanta of Worcester. CVs shouldn't be immune from all ships. A single BB can't defend itself against a one on one match with a DD for the most part. It's part of the game and you have to know where you can support your team and where you can take the fight. I'm not even the best CV player or even close to it, but I come out near the top and have no complaints. If I were better, I can easily be top ship in the majority of battles, so I can't support a nerf to AA IMHO.

 

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On 4/6/2019 at 12:11 PM, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Ah thanks! It seems any... ANY pass is one pass

Early on the the match when all ships are full health and close together you should only plan on single pass attacks.  Also use your faster and more disposable rocket planes.  If you are forced to use DB's or Torp planes, use islands to cover your approach or look up how to "catapult" your DB's past the flak and over your target.   It isn't until the match has progressed and the potatoes have wandered off all by themselves that you can begin hitting them with full squadrons and multiple strikes.  Then you can listen to them cry about how "cv's are too overpowered" and how "their CV sucks".

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On 4/6/2019 at 2:21 PM, RipNuN2 said:

 

If you know you will only get one pass, drop ordnance early to reduce the planes in your squadron so you have more planes leftover later. Then go on your attack with a smaller squadron to minimize losses.

this is an obvious work around to something that is broke.  If you can lose your entire squad before you drop a single piece of ordinance, and you lose planes left and right spotting from a distance then there's really no fun in playing that ship.  Comments that consist of "get gud" and use a strange mechanic to reduce how much it sucks by 10% aren't productive.

 

This last patch made it worse, because now there's you're the only t8 cv in a t10 battle.  At least there used to be some company for the misery before.  I just played my GZ, that I've hung on to this long, and those fighters just get wrecked.  I did more damage with my secondaries.

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On 4/6/2019 at 10:33 AM, Sierra1968 said:

 A lone ship on a flank (I’m looking at you US ships) shouldn’t be able to single handedly wipe out your entire squadron without launching any ordinance.

But that was always the US "thing". The reason they gave up torps on the cruisers (I assume you are talking about cruisers) and were still being played. That was their claim to fame before the rework too, just not a lot of CVs then. CV players knew to avoid them until late game when they had been HE hammered to take out some of the AA. The reaction to constant CVs in the rework is to play heavy AA ships (mostly US) and travel in bait balls. Its what the CV players said we should do when we complained about the new, ever present CVs.

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30 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

But that was always the US "thing". The reason they gave up torps on the cruisers (I assume you are talking about cruisers) and were still being played. That was their claim to fame before the rework too, just not a lot of CVs then. CV players knew to avoid them until late game when they had been HE hammered to take out some of the AA. The reaction to constant CVs in the rework is to play heavy AA ships (mostly US) and travel in bait balls. Its what the CV players said we should do when we complained about the new, ever present CVs.

This...

One would not sail into a cap full of enemy dd's unless they had radar, hydro and were good at killing dd's.   For the same reason one should not sail alone when there are cv's present unless they have the tools to deal with planes (aa).  Cv's are not overpowered, they are simply a new tool used to punish poor play.  Poor players are going to feel it the worst and rightfully so.

Edited by HallaSnackbar

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15 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

Early on the the match when all ships are full health and close together you should only plan on single pass attacks.  Also use your faster and more disposable rocket planes.  If you are forced to use DB's or Torp planes, use islands to cover your approach or look up how to "catapult" your DB's past the flak and over your target.   It isn't until the match has progressed and the potatoes have wandered off all by themselves that you can begin hitting them with full squadrons and multiple strikes.  Then you can listen to them cry about how "cv's are too overpowered" and how "their CV sucks".

This works - to a degree.

But RN rocket fighters have minuscule boosts and stupidly slow cruise speeds - so it's usually more effective to take out bombers on those early game recon flights.

Otherwise, yes ... it's a matter of riding out the first half the game in as useful a manner possible (spotting, fighter CAP) before picking on 'stragglers'.

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1 hour ago, HMS_Formidable said:

This works - to a degree.

But RN rocket fighters have minuscule boosts and stupidly slow cruise speeds - so it's usually more effective to take out bombers on those early game recon flights.

Otherwise, yes ... it's a matter of riding out the first half the game in as useful a manner possible (spotting, fighter CAP) before picking on 'stragglers'.

I agree. CV's early game is spotting and finding out what AA ships are guarding what and locating the DD's for the fleet to deal with.  Once the fleet "spreads" out a bit you can start your attack runs.  CV is not an early game star, shes a mid game, late game star.

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On 4/6/2019 at 1:45 PM, RipNuN2 said:

Do you know how to dodge flak or proper target selection and approach vectors?

Besides dodging flak and having a curved approach path, create the habit of dropping one of your loads in the water and shrink the size of your squadron (while already saving 2-3 planes that are sent back to the carrier). Once you get larger squadrons in t8, it doesn't make much sense to make your first runs with full squadrons. All planes will loose some HP once they are inside short range AA bubble in the first attack and again in the second one. The remainder for the 3rd attack will have such low HP that they might not be able to perform the last attack run. Becoming deplaned will take much longer. If you manage your squadrons carefully, you may even have full squadrons by the end of the game, which is when you have the strongest impact. There are fewer ships with less functional AA modules and which are usually scattered around the map.

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The problem with that scenario is you end up with a smaller HP pool for your planes when attacking.  AA damage at medium and short range is spread out over the entire squadron, so you are really diminishing your chances for a successful attack run.

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51 minutes ago, Sierra1968 said:

The problem with that scenario is you end up with a smaller HP pool for your planes when attacking.  AA damage at medium and short range is spread out over the entire squadron, so you are really diminishing your chances for a successful attack run.

I keep hearing this but have yet to see it as an actual issue in game for myself or the players I follow.  In my experience if the AA is so bad I cant get a single squad in to drop bombs it is because the aa is stacked meaning the rest of my squadron would be forced to fly through the rest of the ships following the drop and all would be lost anyway.

If you can't get a lone squadron in and bombs away before dying either your build is incorrect or your target selection is incorrect.  

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So... has everyone seen this yet?
Basically how to use the "attack immunity"  to bypass the long and mid-ranged AA.

 

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Besides dodging flak and having a curved approach path, create the habit of dropping one of your loads in the water and shrink the size of your squadron (while already saving 2-3 planes that are sent back to the carrier)

You have to munchkin this only because the AA model is still busted. There's a huge modifier based on Tier difference. 

  • Target = -2 Tiers below you: You can hover above them all day with your planes without a scratch
  • Target = -1 Tier below you: Easy run, minimal AA damage
  • Same tier target :"normal" AA, can at attrit you but you'll get 2 drops off, maybe 3 if you do the right approaches
  • Target = +1 Tier above you: Tough AA, you will probably only get one drop off
  • Target = +2 Tiers above you: Insane AA, your planes will get shredded before they make an attack, you may get one rocket or torp run off if you're lucky.

So if you're a T8 CV in a T6 match, your planes are like demigods, striking down targets at will. But if you're a T8 CV in a T10 match you're almost bloody useless, almost better off just running into a corner and saving the credit for for losing planes.

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36 minutes ago, EasyEight said:

You have to munchkin this only because the AA model is still busted. There's a huge modifier based on Tier difference. 

  • Target = -2 Tiers below you: You can hover above them all day with your planes without a scratch
  • Target = -1 Tier below you: Easy run, minimal AA damage
  • Same tier target :"normal" AA, can at attrit you but you'll get 2 drops off, maybe 3 if you do the right approaches
  • Target = +1 Tier above you: Tough AA, you will probably only get one drop off
  • Target = +2 Tiers above you: Insane AA, your planes will get shredded before they make an attack, you may get one rocket or torp run off if you're lucky.

So if you're a T8 CV in a T6 match, your planes are like demigods, striking down targets at will. But if you're a T8 CV in a T10 match you're almost bloody useless, almost better off just running into a corner and saving the credit for for losing planes.

You will never be dominated by nor obliterated by Tier alone. +2-2 only gives a general idea, a NC is dangerous even to T10 planes.  This game is more balanced around the individual ship than anything else tiering is just a rough guideline one that is not followed very well through out the game as a whole.

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On 4/10/2019 at 1:05 PM, 5O_Shades_of_Steel said:

I play CVs now every once in a while. I don't have an issue with the AA at it's current state. It use to be worse. I also think that if a player specs for it, then it's their right to not be annoyed or dead because of a CV. It would be like a DD complaining that he can't survive in a one on one with an Atlanta of Worcester. CVs shouldn't be immune from all ships. A single BB can't defend itself against a one on one match with a DD for the most part. It's part of the game and you have to know where you can support your team and where you can take the fight. I'm not even the best CV player or even close to it, but I come out near the top and have no complaints. If I were better, I can easily be top ship in the majority of battles, so I can't support a nerf to AA IMHO.

 

Not a good one for one.  A DD caught by an Atlanta can still damage and potentially sink the Atlanta,  while an AA monster is virtually immune to anything the CV can do.  I absolutely think that you should be rewarded for speccing into AA,  but not to the extent that a squadron is wiped out the second it even thinks about entering to AA range.  

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6 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

You will never be dominated by nor obliterated by Tier alone. +2-2 only gives a general idea, a NC is dangerous even to T10 planes.  This game is more balanced around the individual ship than anything else tiering is just a rough guideline one that is not followed very well through out the game as a whole.

I decided to take advantage of all the noob CV drivers in their new shiny premium t8 CV's and took my Massachusetts out for a spin.  Parked in a cap with a friendly DD who smokes me and we enjoyed the fireworks.  How many planes can a Massachusetts shoot down you ask... all of them.  Not even AA spec'd..

Screenshot (37).png

Screenshot (36).png

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planes need more health if you ask me the current amount of health pool with skill perks is still not enough or wont cut it. WG just needs to buff just enough so that it's not too tanky.

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6 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

I decided to take advantage of all the noob CV drivers in their new shiny premium t8 CV's and took my Massachusetts out for a spin.  Parked in a cap with a friendly DD who smokes me and we enjoyed the fireworks.  How many planes can a Massachusetts shoot down you ask... all of them.  Not even AA spec'd..

Screenshot (37).png

Screenshot (36).png

Ya Mass is basically a no fly zone to me in my CVs.

 

6 hours ago, The_Big_Red_1 said:

planes need more health if you ask me the current amount of health pool with skill perks is still not enough or wont cut it. WG just needs to buff just enough so that it's not too tanky.

Some squadrons need more health like GZ fighters but its more that 'great aa ships' need toned down some like the wooster and mino, and other ships AA needs buffed a bit so it contributes more and overlapping AA still needs tweaked.  AA is prolly the number 1 most broken part of the cv rework, they should never have changed it, it looks pretty but flak goes from useless to stupid OP in blink of an eye.  The fact that we can bypass tons of flak is lame, and the fact that if you touch it your squadrons all explode is equally as lame.

Way I see AA is you should have a reasonable chance to strike even the best AA ship, but all ships should have a reasonable chance to defend themselves to a decent degree.  So yes you would take less losses on heavy AA ships but you would sustain more losses spread out across all the other ships.  This would leave the total loss of aircraft about the same but change the over all feel of the CV vs Surface ship encounters.  It would be less fustrating for most surface ships, and less crippling for CV.  I would also massively tone down overlapping AA so that the CV can contribute against a ball, but the ball formation is no longer an absolute must use tactic.  Take the highest dmg AA and that is what the base AA is, then 50% of the next ships AA dmg, and 25% of the 3rd, 15% of the 4th, 5% of the fifth or something like that giving large diminishing returns.  Tweak that till it feels right for game balance.  The devs have already done something along this line but the AA dmg still seems a bit high making it a complete no fly zone, leading to death balls still being preferred as the only viable tactic in cv games.

The biggest thing with AA is the scale curve in the tiering.  Low tier AA is to ineffective and high tier AA is to effective.  It needs to be a smoother line not a rocket style curve when you hit T8-10.

Edited by JToney3449

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