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Kestrel_Falcon

19 OVER PENS from my Roma??

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Guys, I'm tearing my hair out of my head here.  In one match I was approx 7.4K from FN Richelieu. I fired and fired at water line, then slightly above and just below.  I recorded 19 over pens. What is going on here. I finally gave up and switched to HE I could start fires. Now going toe to toe against Yami, GK, Monty she does pretty good. So what's my option here against Richelieu? Suicide by ramming her?

Edited by Kestrel_Falcon
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As a fellow Roma captain, I'm inclined to agree with your frustrations. I've sailed her since she was released and have had my good share of great games and terrible games, nothing is more frustrating than her damn vertical dispersion. Roma overall is a powerful BB at Tier 8, as she is very tough bow-on and has lol pen AP rounds, not to mention her ninja concealment. Her overall style is to sneak around the flanks and smack broadsides but that rarely happens when your shells go all over the place and you end up with a few overpens if you're lucky. I had a match a few days ago where I had a broadside NC at 9km yet the guns would not behave, in any other BB I would've punished that NC, not in Roma though. 

She was completely fine with her 1.9 sigma back in testing, why it was nerfed I have no idea as the vertical dispersion is terrible with 1.8. Stats for the ship show great performance from players across a variety of servers, she has one of the highest WRs out of all the Tier 8 BBs, but that doesn't excuse her guns. My guess is WG wanted to go by 'historical' accuray and give Roma the bad dispersion the Littorios had in real life, but that issue was solved due to replacing bad powder and shells with much better ones by 1942, so Roma never had that issue as she was launched in 1942. Though since when did WG ever care for historical accuracy considering we're getting fantasy Russian BBs before an actual Italian tech tree or even French destroyers. Either way, i won't dismiss Roma's fantastic strengths but none of those matter, specifically her play style, if the guns just don't perform.

WG could do two things, either increase her sigma/decrease the vertical dispersion, or decrease the reload to 26s since all other Tier 8 BBs with 15in guns have that benefit. As of now, she's one of my most frustrating ships to play, Aim Mod 1 does jack craphonestly and I couldn't imagine playing without it if the dispersion is still terrible with that upgrade. The problem though, is that not only is Roma WR and average damage across all servers higher than most Tier 8 BBs, but I doubt any premium ships are going to be tweaked or messed with for a while due to the whole Giulio Cesare incident and what came out of it.

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Hey

The Roma because of the high velocity of her guns cause the over pen situation, especially when shooting cruisers.  I shot a broadside Prinz Eugen at over 14km and got NOTHING but over pens for 4 full salvo's before he finally moved behind an island, and this happens all the time, same happened on a Des Moines that I thought I would punish, NOPE.  I even over penned the broadside of a Yamato at 12km with what was supposed to be a waterline shot.  It can be very frustrating since the ship itself handles so well, is reasonably tanky, decent rotating guns, looks great.  If only they were either more accurate or did less over pens. 

 

Pete

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19 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

The Roma because of the high velocity of her guns cause the over pen situation, especially when shooting cruisers.  I shot a broadside Prinz Eugen at over 14km and got NOTHING but over pens for 4 full salvo's before he finally moved behind an island, and this happens all the time, same happened on a Des Moines that I thought I would punish, NOPE.  I even over penned the broadside of a Yamato at 12km with what was supposed to be a waterline shot.  It can be very frustrating since the ship itself handles so well, is reasonably tanky, decent rotating guns, looks great.  If only they were either more accurate or did less over pens. 

 

Pete

The very high velocity is a good thing in a few ways, one the shells get out there quick, it reminded me of Scharnhorst when I first played it. This high velocity also means her shells travel far when hitting the water, you kinda have to take a Japanese BB aim point and put the cursor just below the waterline where there's only a few pixels of water between your optic and the waterline of the enemy ship. This is till hard however since her shells rarely go where you aim them. The ship handles so great and she would be a fantastic premium if the guns were just a tad bit more consistent. That's sorta the thing with North Carolina, her base dispersion is not the best but her 2.0 sigma makes the shell grouping predictable. 

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Hey

I find it aggravating that Wargaming takes forever to do anything with ships that are so frustrating and yet look so good.  They make sure the new Russian BB's function good but yet from the start Roma needed help with the way the guns work and yet nothing has changed.  It's very unpredictable in how they will preform; even if they were wonky but in a predictable way.  Oh well, the longer the game goes, the more inconsistent it is and I find myself playing less than I used to, less interested in premiums (and I have my share), and less interested in staying with it.  Sorry for the rant.

 

Pete

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12 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I find it aggravating that Wargaming takes forever to do anything with ships that are so frustrating and yet look so good.  They make sure the new Russian BB's function good but yet from the start Roma needed help with the way the guns work and yet nothing has changed.  It's very unpredictable in how they will preform; even if they were wonky but in a predictable way.  Oh well, the longer the game goes, the more inconsistent it is and I find myself playing less than I used to, less interested in premiums (and I have my share), and less interested in staying with it.  Sorry for the rant.

 

Pete

Roma ***MIGHT*** get help when SAP shells come into the game.  I stress *MIGHT* because they may consider SAP to be the feature of Tech Tree Italian Battleships while Premium Roma may get left out in the cold.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Roma ***MIGHT*** get help when SAP shells come into the game.  I stress *MIGHT* because they may consider SAP to be the feature of Tech Tree Italian Battleships while Premium Roma may get left out in the cold.

Hey

MIGHT; instead of just making guns that perform like many other decent T8 BB's in this game.  It's not like Wargaming doesn't know about Roma's faults and failure to do anything about it.  Let's be honest; if the new Russian BB's performed like Roma, you know darned well they would correct it right away.

 

Pete

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9 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

MIGHT; instead of just making guns that perform like many other decent T8 BB's in this game.  It's not like Wargaming doesn't know about Roma's faults and failure to do anything about it.  Let's be honest; if the new Russian BB's performed like Roma, you know darned well they would correct it right away.

 

Pete

Just because the ship is Russian doesn't mean it's going to get extra help.

Case in point, look up Krasny Krym, a Tier V Premium RU CL that actually has important history but sucks real bad in the game.  She's been in game for years now.  There are even other Russian Premiums that once were strong but have gotten a lot weaker since the game has gone on and changed.  They have received no help.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Just because the ship is Russian doesn't mean it's going to get extra help.

Case in point, look up Krasny Krym, a Tier V Premium RU CL that actually has important history but sucks real bad in the game.  She's been in game for years now.  There are even other Russian Premiums that once were strong but have gotten a lot weaker since the game has gone on and changed.  They have received no help.

Hey

Moskva got help and was it just because of Stalingrad; couldn't have that under performing.  Try fighting the Kreml/Kremlin or the Pobeda in any other T10 BB.  Tell me there isn't a bias of sorts.  As for Krasny Krym; it never was popular and never will be at this point, how often do you play yours?

 

Pete

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7 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Moskva got help and was it just because of Stalingrad; couldn't have that under performing.  Try fighting the Kreml/Kremlin or the Pobeda in any other T10 BB.  Tell me there isn't a bias of sorts.  As for Krasny Krym; it never was popular and never will be at this point, how often do you play yours?

 

Pete

I haven't played Krispy Kreme in years.  I was an idiot and bought it.  She hasn't had any help by WG.

 

You also forget the nerfs Khabarovsk has had.  She's still good but nowhere near what she used to be.

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On 6/26/2019 at 8:58 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Roma ***MIGHT*** get help when SAP shells come into the game.  I stress *MIGHT* because they may consider SAP to be the feature of Tech Tree Italian Battleships while Premium Roma may get left out in the cold.

Might be a good thing to consider, since the Roma's AP shells tend to overpen broadside cruisers yet when they angle away, that's where I see proper penetrations occurring. Italian BBs in real life never had a proper HE shell if I recall, they had a heavier AP shell meant for enemy battleships and a lighter AP shell with much less penetration that wouldn't go straight through cruisers and destroyers. I can really see this as the main personality of the Italian BB line, great gun handling and ballistics with two types of AP shells, great maneuverability and concealment, however they would have lackluster gun range and a very exposed citadel and of course mediocre AA and secondaries. The Italians never expected air opposition in their theater as they expected to fight the French, not the British so bad AA is justified while for secondaries, well the 90mm guns just don't have the pen to barely make it through DD plating.

I honestly don't know how they'll handle the Italians, but I generally hope it's somewhere along these lines since to me, it just makes sense. Though they may change it up a bit since one nation already kind has this play style, the Russians. However, the Italians helped the Russians with ship building which is where the similarities make sense so they may make the Italians and Russians similar for all I know. 

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1 hour ago, P51pilot122 said:

Might be a good thing to consider, since the Roma's AP shells tend to overpen broadside cruisers yet when they angle away, that's where I see proper penetrations occurring. Italian BBs in real life never had a proper HE shell if I recall, they had a heavier AP shell meant for enemy battleships and a lighter AP shell with much less penetration that wouldn't go straight through cruisers and destroyers. I can really see this as the main personality of the Italian BB line, great gun handling and ballistics with two types of AP shells, great maneuverability and concealment, however they would have lackluster gun range and a very exposed citadel and of course mediocre AA and secondaries. The Italians never expected air opposition in their theater as they expected to fight the French, not the British so bad AA is justified while for secondaries, well the 90mm guns just don't have the pen to barely make it through DD plating.

I honestly don't know how they'll handle the Italians, but I generally hope it's somewhere along these lines since to me, it just makes sense. Though they may change it up a bit since one nation already kind has this play style, the Russians. However, the Italians helped the Russians with ship building which is where the similarities make sense so they may make the Italians and Russians similar for all I know. 

Man, I still remember trying to make a Secondaries Build work on Roma.  That was before I learned about how the HE Penetration formula worked and wondered why I wasn't getting any pens with them, even during co-op tests.  Those doubloons spent respecc'ing the captain and swapping out upgrades... What a waste.  I'm just glad I tested it in Co-op first and not embarrass myself with a Secondary Spec Roma in Randoms :Smile_trollface:

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On 6/30/2019 at 1:34 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Man, I still remember trying to make a Secondaries Build work on Roma.  That was before I learned about how the HE Penetration formula worked and wondered why I wasn't getting any pens with them, even during co-op tests.  Those doubloons spent respecc'ing the captain and swapping out upgrades... What a waste.  I'm just glad I tested it in Co-op first and not embarrass myself with a Secondary Spec Roma in Randoms :Smile_trollface:

Might be fun to see a bunch of Romas do a secondaries only battle kinda like the Bismarck secondaries only thing that a bunch of community contributors did a while back. Just a lot more derpy than it already was with Bismarcks :Smile_trollface:

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On 8/8/2019 at 12:01 PM, Kestrel_Falcon said:

I'm hoping that WG will swap-out HE for SAP ammo.

+1. This really would be a welcome change.

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Hey

I ran my G. Cesare last week and had 45 over pens in one game.   It was the worst case I have ever had especially in that boat.  Roma has always had a been problem, but not the G.C.  More of the nonsense continues.

 

Pete

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On 8/8/2019 at 9:01 AM, Kestrel_Falcon said:

I'm hoping that WG will swap-out HE for SAP ammo.

I know this is late, especially now that the ITA Cruiser Line is out.  But I doubt Roma will be altered to swap her HE out for SAP.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see that also, because I think the gun sizes for BATTLESHIPS would work great for SAP, unlike Cruiser sized shells.  I'm imagining BB sized SAP shells can make Overmatch work, whereas the small Cruiser ones can't.

But I doubt this will happen for Roma & Caesar because the existing ITA Cruisers like Duca D'Aosta and Abruzzi did not get changed to have SAP replace their HE shells when the actual ITA Cruiser Line went Live.

... And looking at how Cruiser SAP turned out, it's probably for the best Duca and Abruzzi didn't get SAP :Smile_trollface:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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25 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see that also, because I think the gun sizes for BATTLESHIPS would work great for SAP, unlike Cruiser sized shells.  I'm imagining BB sized SAP shells can make Overmatch work, whereas the small Cruiser ones can't.

But I doubt this will happen for Roma & Caesar because the existing ITA Cruisers like Duca D'Aosta and Abruzzi did not get changed to have SAP replace their HE shells when the actual ITA Cruiser Line went Live.

Well as I've said before, there's always Italy's inevitable battleship line to look forward to for that. SAP for Littorio? Yes please!

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18 hours ago, Landsraad said:

Well as I've said before, there's always Italy's inevitable battleship line to look forward to for that. SAP for Littorio? Yes please!

The only thing I can possibly hope for Roma is to tighten her dispersion up when the ITA BB Line goes Live.

 

This is a BB that relies entirely on her main batteries to do damage.  Roma has no torps and her secondaries are complete garbage, so there's no extra source of damage for her.  Even her AA sucks.  At least WG can improve the accuracy of her guns.

 

Amagi is a Tier VIII BB that lives and dies offensively with her main battery, and they're good.  Lots of 410mm guns and IJN BB accuracy.

 

Roma doesn't even have a half-decent set of guns to rely on.  The high Citadel is easier to deal with if you could at least say you got a decent set of guns.

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The only thing I can possibly hope for Roma is to tighten her dispersion up when the ITA BB Line goes Live.

If RM BBs leave the crappy Euro dispersion curve behind like DKM BBs did...then Roma might actually get it. But a line-wide buff is her only hope now.

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