Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
L0LiCE

The CV and DD problem

26 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
8 posts
1,881 battles

This may have been asked in the forum quite a lot. Couldnt find anything up to date on it.
How do you guys play Destroyers in Tier 9/10?

After the CV rework I quite often get matchmaking with two CVs.

This is usually when i could already quit the game because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap. I usually try to seek AA-ships to defend me from the planes, but die before i could reach them because the the CVs take 4 hits and i'm gone.

Is there any way to prevent this or is this just the DD player experience and you cant do anything about it?

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,523
[D-DAY]
Members
7,136 posts

Honestly, you have probably just kicked the hornets nest without realising.

My advice will be going to YouTube and search for the DD you are interested in; there are many that stream on Twitch as well. The advice on the forums can be good from some areas, but then the infighting will start.

I hope you find the clips/advice that can/will help you make your own decisions about what is best for you. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
121
[ENDO]
Members
284 posts

Here is what I have noticed.

  • Games without CVs have more DDs.
  • Games with CVs have less DDs.
  • Games with 2 CVs have same number of DDs that games with a single CV has.
  • Many games the CV does not bother me.
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
121
[ENDO]
Members
284 posts

There are many techniques in playing DDs with CVs. The basics are provided below.

  • Turn off your AA until detected.
  • Set your priority sector facing the Red side.
  • If there is one CV per match, chances are it will be on the opposite side, diagonally, that your CV is on. So the best side to go forward is on your CV side.
  • Remember, just because you see the planes, does not mean that they are close to you. Keep tabs on the distance indicator.
  • Set your mini-map to show Air plane spotting range.
  • When attack by the enemy, whether it is by ship or by air, wiggle early, wiggle often.
  • Save your smoke until you really need it. When you use it because of a plane attack. Expect to be rocketed, torpedoed, and bomb, often. 

 

What I do that works for me:

  • When planes are attacking you maneuver so that the ships AA switches one sector to the other and back as rapidly as possible. This way you shoot down more planes. This is due to how the AA is coded and DDs reap the benefit.
  • Watch what the CV is hunting. If the CV is hunting DDs your play style will be slightly different. If the enemy CV is attacking other ships, do the capping, spotting, and things that help your team more aggressively.
  • I select my DDs as if there are no CVs in the match. I play the Asashio which have a AA of 5 and have done well with it even when there is a CV or two. My other daily drive is a Shimakaze which is public enemy #1 to the team it plays against. I have only had minor games where the CV killed me early in the game.
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,180
[WOLF5]
Supertester
5,233 posts
4,348 battles
22 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

Sounds like someone needs to learn how to adapt 

Uh, he's trying. Instead of whining about OP CVs he's asking how to deal with them. But here you are making unhelpful snide remarks.

  • Cool 5
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,484
[HINON]
Members
14,324 posts
9 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Uh, he's trying. Instead of whining about OP CVs he's asking how to deal with them. But here you are making unhelpful snide remarks.

In this case I agree as the OP actually asked for help instead of writing a whiny rage thread.

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
1,881 battles
38 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

Sounds like someone needs to learn how to adapt 

Sounds like someone doesnt know how to do critisism/answer questions

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
1,881 battles
45 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Honestly, you have probably just kicked the hornets nest without realising.

My advice will be going to YouTube and search for the DD you are interested in; there are many that stream on Twitch as well. The advice on the forums can be good from some areas, but then the infighting will start.

I hope you find the clips/advice that can/will help you make your own decisions about what is best for you. :Smile_honoring:

I see, maybe my matchmaking luck is just horrible.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
1,881 battles
25 minutes ago, mrkimba said:

There are many techniques in playing DDs with CVs. The basics are provided below.

  • Turn off your AA until detected.
  • Set your priority sector facing the Red side.
  • If there is one CV per match, chances are it will be on the opposite side, diagonally, that your CV is on. So the best side to go forward is on your CV side.
  • Remember, just because you see the planes, does not mean that they are close to you. Keep tabs on the distance indicator.
  • Set your mini-map to show Air plane spotting range.
  • When attack by the enemy, whether it is by ship or by air, wiggle early, wiggle often.
  • Save your smoke until you really need it. When you use it because of a plane attack. Expect to be rocketed, torpedoed, and bomb, often. 

 

What I do that works for me:

  • When planes are attacking you maneuver so that the ships AA switches one sector to the other and back as rapidly as possible. This way you shoot down more planes. This is due to how the AA is coded and DDs reap the benefit.
  • Watch what the CV is hunting. If the CV is hunting DDs your play style will be slightly different. If the enemy CV is attacking other ships, do the capping, spotting, and things that help your team more aggressively.
  • I select my DDs as if there are no CVs in the match. I play the Asashio which have a AA of 5 and have done well with it even when there is a CV or two. My other daily drive is a Shimakaze which is public enemy #1 to the team it plays against. I have only had minor games where the CV killed me early in the game.

I'll try to take your advice to heart.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,523
[D-DAY]
Members
7,136 posts
4 minutes ago, L0LiCE said:

I see, maybe my matchmaking luck is just horrible.

Thanks

Wish what I thought may happen hadn't so fast, but that is the nature of the forum.

I give the advice about looking at YouTube because many players will describe why they are doing and why; it will take away the toxicity you tend to get here (as shown already). +1 to mrkimba :Smile_honoring:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,241 posts
591 battles
25 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Uh, he's trying. Instead of whining about OP CVs he's asking how to deal with them. But here you are making unhelpful snide remarks.

he does that a lot  ( well as its a re-roll he USED to do it a lot and apparently still does)

Edited by neptunes_wrath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
1,881 battles
17 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Wish what I thought may happen hadn't so fast, but that is the nature of the forum.

I give the advice about looking at YouTube because many players will describe why they are doing and why; it will take away the toxicity you tend to get here (as shown already). +1 to mrkimba :Smile_honoring:

The ingame chat isnt much different. I'm used to it. I just wish people would rather give tips to their team than just complain in the chat "this team sucks a**"

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,003
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester
28,452 posts
14,971 battles

In simple terms in the new CV environment never sail alone and keep your AA off until you are actually detected by a plane.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38
[UWANK]
Members
102 posts
9,986 battles

     Well one of the basic thigs you have to do when attacked is manuever dont leave ur ship length wise to bombers and depending on what attack planes are stalking you determines that, against japanese,american and the Enterprise dont get attacked broadside, their pattern is horizontal oval, while the Graf is a vertical oval, the tiny tim attack planes of the Saipan and midway are circles, same with the British CVs., the Enterprise,Graf and japanese dive bombers are all ap so they pose little threat to you. Also the torpedo planes are minimally dangerous unless your sitting still in which case you probably deserve it.  The danger with torpedo bombers is if they get you to constantly turn and bleed off too much speed, usually I can get a hit on a dd with the 2nd or 3rd drop. The real danger to a DD is getting perma spotted by the planes and or incapacitations from the rockets.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46
[-TOG-]
Members
172 posts
2,038 battles
2 hours ago, L0LiCE said:

This may have been asked in the forum quite a lot. Couldnt find anything up to date on it.
How do you guys play Destroyers in Tier 9/10?

After the CV rework I quite often get matchmaking with two CVs.

This is usually when i could already quit the game because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap. I usually try to seek AA-ships to defend me from the planes, but die before i could reach them because the the CVs take 4 hits and i'm gone.

Is there any way to prevent this or is this just the DD player experience and you cant do anything about it?

Bullcrap. All of this, is bull. 

  • Meh 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,534
[CVA16]
Members
6,766 posts
20,842 battles
2 hours ago, L0LiCE said:

because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap.

CVs have always made capping a much more dangerous activity. When the cap starts turning red they have a good idea where to look for you AND you are likely way ahead of your team so have no AA cover and will be under the guns of many enemy ships when spotted. Since the planes launch so early now, they will be looking for DDs heading towards the CAPs outrunning their BBs and CA/CLs. I would suggest not making for the caps early, hang back a bit within AA cover and let them do their early sweep looking for exposed DDs and move on.  Generally try not to be where the CV predicts you will be. With recent changes, the planes have to get really close to see you. As others have said, keep your AA off until detected.

Smoking that friendly AA monster cruiser and letting yourself be seen racing back toward the cover of the smoke would be a great way to deal with planes too.

But, generally, CVs are there to make your life as a DD captain miserable.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Retired WoWS Community Contributors
3,498 posts
13,985 battles
On 3/21/2019 at 1:20 PM, L0LiCE said:

This may have been asked in the forum quite a lot. Couldnt find anything up to date on it.
How do you guys play Destroyers in Tier 9/10?

After the CV rework I quite often get matchmaking with two CVs.

This is usually when i could already quit the game because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap. I usually try to seek AA-ships to defend me from the planes, but die before i could reach them because the the CVs take 4 hits and i'm gone.

Is there any way to prevent this or is this just the DD player experience and you cant do anything about it?

I created a YouTube channel for guys trying to learn the DD game.  It might be worth your time to take a look.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-CVV_QxU4CesZL5pvdJw4A/videos

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,087
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,690 posts
13,377 battles
On 3/21/2019 at 1:20 PM, L0LiCE said:

This may have been asked in the forum quite a lot. Couldnt find anything up to date on it.
How do you guys play Destroyers in Tier 9/10?

After the CV rework I quite often get matchmaking with two CVs.

This is usually when i could already quit the game because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap. I usually try to seek AA-ships to defend me from the planes, but die before i could reach them because the the CVs take 4 hits and i'm gone.

Is there any way to prevent this or is this just the DD player experience and you cant do anything about it?

In addition to what people above have mentioned, try and take advantage of the CV scouting the red fleet for ya. If the CV spots a bunch of cruisers heading to the cap you were interested in, there's a good chance they're following one of their own DD's into the cap. Make the call then, instead of when you see a DD and instantly get lit up.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[3ONKS]
Members
322 posts
23,739 battles
On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 1:20 PM, L0LiCE said:

This may have been asked in the forum quite a lot. Couldnt find anything up to date on it.
How do you guys play Destroyers in Tier 9/10?

After the CV rework I quite often get matchmaking with two CVs.

This is usually when i could already quit the game because the CVs will kill me before i even reach a cap. I usually try to seek AA-ships to defend me from the planes, but die before i could reach them because the the CVs take 4 hits and i'm gone.

Is there any way to prevent this or is this just the DD player experience and you cant do anything about it?

Your title is a bit misleading. It says problem, but your asking for advice instead. 
Anyways, I personally have not been experiencing any issues with new CVs as a DD player unless I get nuked occasionally but that's balance for me doing it to everyone else and my class getting a crazy amount of unnecessary buffs.

Firstly, try to not go for caps immediately, keep a distance away from caps. See where the enemy aircraft are going then you know where the threat is primarily going to be.
Secondly, keeping AA off till the last seconds is very annoying whenever I try to attack enemy DDs with my CV.
Thirdly, if rocket aircraft and HE dive bombers are determined to get you and you don't really have any allies nearby, then smoke up before he detects you. Do this only if there are no radar ships nearby; especially that broken Russian radar. Smoking may not stop the enemy CV from attacking you, but it'll waste a lot of his/her time if they are really committed.
Fourth, if you ever see a Minotaur/Wooster, those things are monsters. A CV generally tries to avoid them at all costs. This is more situational though.
DD AA is actually quite decent if you use the sectors but I don't recommend getting detected for that unless you already are or CV is going after allied ship them use sector to help allies.

DDs are still very powerful even after the CV was repurposed to counter DDs due to the constant unnecessary buffs they have gotten. It seems like you need a bit of adjusting then you'll be fine. It make take a while to get used to encountering the new CVs as it did for me. I thought they were a bit too strong but after getting used to them, I think the are fair. Well then, good luck. I hope my advise helps you but not when I'm the CV :P

Thank you for not ranting that CVs are OP and they need to be nerfed. It shows that you are a competent DD player that is willing to adapt instead of getting the game to revolve around them. You should try out the new CVs so you can maybe get a feel of how their gameplay is like so you can better defend yourself as a DD player. CVs though being not as powerful as they used to be in RTS mode, are now pretty fun. It takes a bit getting used to aiming these aircraft and dodge flack. The first 10 games, I was an absolute noob. I got better over time. Playing CVs allows me as a DD player to basically know what the CV is planning for. I like to play all classes equally but have stopped playing CVs after the changes to USN CVs, nerfing their fighters. But now with the new rework, they are pretty fun. It's like a new class of ship.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,534
[CVA16]
Members
6,766 posts
20,842 battles
On 3/23/2019 at 8:03 AM, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

CV was repurposed to counter DDs due to the constant unnecessary buffs they have gotten

What are these constant unnecessary buffs of which you speak?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,731
[KIA-C]
Members
3,824 posts
16,812 battles

Turn off your AA and wait few minute before going for cap. Main IJN DD line have very good air concealment but after maybe a pass or 2, the CV will definitely strike you. Use your air concealment and if you're spotted (and as mentioned before you didn't rushed a cap) you should have some time to actually turn away and get close to the nearest cruiser.

 

If you notice a Minotaure and Worcester is aggressively pushing with you, you can make a bet a drop smoke for him. If he's an idiot who press W and sail in binocular view, then your smoke is wasted but you can use him as a temporary meat shield. If he's smart and actually make uses of your smoke you can spot for him or even bait the ennemi CV into thinking you're alone so he sails close to your AA cruiser and loses a planes or 2. Take special care about Midway DB, especially now that an exploit has been discovered. You can expect those CV to drop you for 12-15k if they know how to use it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[3ONKS]
Members
322 posts
23,739 battles
15 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

What are these constant unnecessary buffs of which you speak?

Well the first and biggest one was BB AP on DDs. That was the best way to counter and balance destroyers reliably. Destroyers did not need BB AP changed because they always had the most influence by far in determining which team shall win and which shall lose. BB AP was one of those hard counters sort of balancing them.
Nerfing BB AP was the first buff and biggest by far. When DDs needed nerfs, they got this buff.

The second buff to destroyers was the massive nerf to the duration of the radar mod. The radar mod was especially strong on American cruisers. This allowed the otherwise short ranged radar pretty effective. Because as a DD player, I used to never care about USN radar, but that made me think twice before doing something risky as it meant I had to be extra careful due to the long duration.

Another unnecessary buff was the concealment expert skill nerf on carriers, battleships, and cruisers. This meant carriers have to stay a bit further back. Battleships and cruisers can't push as hard and had to worry even more so about being perma spotted by a DD. Meanwhile DDs get to keep their near invisible point blank concealment.

If all that wasn't enough, radar was changed so that a team has to wait 6 seconds before shooting a DD. This was a major nerf to USN CAs in particular as they don't get battleship armor like Moskva, and didn't get a duration buff like the Russians, and don't have long range so a DD can very well get out of radar range fast, and those 6 seconds will basically be the most important 6 seconds a team can't help.

So CVs basically are now the only counter replacing all those previous things that used to counter. To make up for all these numerous counters to a DD, a CV needs to be more than powerful at countering DDs. Despite this, a single CV replacing all those counters wouldn't be enough.
Enter Russian radar. Well it's the Russians who counter hard because bias xaxaxa. 
Russians got their armor buffed from cruiser levels to BB levels which means they can comfortably go out in the open to radar DDs and shoot at them without getting blapped. In addition after radar changed, not only did their duration get buffed, their range also got buffed. So basically they can have 35 second 12km radar which is very annoying and bothersome as a DD player. It denies areas where DDs could have went and spotting to an extent.

So when people complain about CVs and Russian radar, yes let's nerf them but undo all the buffs to DDs first. About the Russian radar, I understand why some people can be upset by it because back then radar back then, we didn't have one nation outright better than another, but now the Russians are outright better than American and British radar. People can complain about Midway being better than Hak, but they have no idea what they're talking about when Hak gets broken AP bombs that essentially devastate everything but DDs. Nonetheless if a Hak player doesn't know how to drop AP bombs properly, torps are ridiculously powerful and rockets of all nations balance destroyers pretty well.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
1,881 battles
On 3/23/2019 at 4:03 PM, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

Your title is a bit misleading. It says problem, but your asking for advice instead. 
Anyways, I personally have not been experiencing any issues with new CVs as a DD player unless I get nuked occasionally but that's balance for me doing it to everyone else and my class getting a crazy amount of unnecessary buffs.

Firstly, try to not go for caps immediately, keep a distance away from caps. See where the enemy aircraft are going then you know where the threat is primarily going to be.
Secondly, keeping AA off till the last seconds is very annoying whenever I try to attack enemy DDs with my CV.
Thirdly, if rocket aircraft and HE dive bombers are determined to get you and you don't really have any allies nearby, then smoke up before he detects you. Do this only if there are no radar ships nearby; especially that broken Russian radar. Smoking may not stop the enemy CV from attacking you, but it'll waste a lot of his/her time if they are really committed.
Fourth, if you ever see a Minotaur/Wooster, those things are monsters. A CV generally tries to avoid them at all costs. This is more situational though.
DD AA is actually quite decent if you use the sectors but I don't recommend getting detected for that unless you already are or CV is going after allied ship them use sector to help allies.

DDs are still very powerful even after the CV was repurposed to counter DDs due to the constant unnecessary buffs they have gotten. It seems like you need a bit of adjusting then you'll be fine. It make take a while to get used to encountering the new CVs as it did for me. I thought they were a bit too strong but after getting used to them, I think the are fair. Well then, good luck. I hope my advise helps you but not when I'm the CV :P

Thank you for not ranting that CVs are OP and they need to be nerfed. It shows that you are a competent DD player that is willing to adapt instead of getting the game to revolve around them. You should try out the new CVs so you can maybe get a feel of how their gameplay is like so you can better defend yourself as a DD player. CVs though being not as powerful as they used to be in RTS mode, are now pretty fun. It takes a bit getting used to aiming these aircraft and dodge flack. The first 10 games, I was an absolute noob. I got better over time. Playing CVs allows me as a DD player to basically know what the CV is planning for. I like to play all classes equally but have stopped playing CVs after the changes to USN CVs, nerfing their fighters. But now with the new rework, they are pretty fun. It's like a new class of ship.

Thanks for the advice although i'll still pass on playing CV's since i am not that really into planes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×