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DOC365

New BB for WOWS idea

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SMS Szent Istvan of the WW 1 Austro-Hungarian navy would make a good new Tier 5 ship. What do you think about it?

kuk-szent-istvan-1915-battleship.png

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While this is the section more for historical topics, making a Tegethoff class BB a tier 5 is to vastly overrate it.  At best, it's tier 4.  Even then, it would be very prone to torpedo damage (if modelled historically).

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There is an Austro- Hungarian BB in testing but they are using the Viribus Unitis.

Just now, Murotsu said:

While this is the section more for historical topics, making a Tegethoff class BB a tier 5 is to vastly overrate it.  At best, it's tier 4.  Even then, it would be very prone to torpedo damage (if modelled historically).

The problem with tier 5 is seeing tier 6 CV's unless they give it a half decent AA suit.

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why not more ships more variety look into for ideas of more national flavour. 

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55 minutes ago, DOC365 said:

SMS Szent Istvan of the WW 1 Austro-Hungarian navy would make a good new Tier 5 ship. What do you think about it?

kuk-szent-istvan-1915-battleship.png

Maybe not at tier 5, but it would make a good tier 4. Personally, I would love to see some battlecruisers of that era, either British or German (Even if the German ones and their armor would fit my style better) 

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My personal preference would be to see them expand the lower tiers into a separate line of pre-dreadnoughts, armored cruisers, and the like where you get true close in contests with broadsides, lots of smoke (black powder, etc.), huge slow firing guns and small quick firing ones that do only a little damage.  All the while you have torpedo boats with one or two torpedoes that are small and short ranged trying to race into point blank range and fire their one or two tubes hoping for a hit.

Maybe add night actions where the ships have to use searchlights to find their targets.

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On 3/17/2019 at 7:56 PM, Murotsu said:

My personal preference would be to see them expand the lower tiers into a separate line of pre-dreadnoughts, armored cruisers, and the like where you get true close in contests with broadsides, lots of smoke (black powder, etc.), huge slow firing guns and small quick firing ones that do only a little damage.  All the while you have torpedo boats with one or two torpedoes that are small and short ranged trying to race into point blank range and fire their one or two tubes hoping for a hit.

Maybe add night actions where the ships have to use searchlights to find their targets.

Thanks for the good ship suggestion @DOC365 and suggestions all.

Personally, I would love the inclusion of more of the famed WW 1 ships and classes. Mainly because of the history and old school design elements.
We have tested the Viribus Unitis , so if we do ever release it, a  Tegethoff class BB, it will likely be the Unitis. 
If the SMS 
Szent Istva were to make the game, what would be your reasoning for it over the SMS Tegetthoff?

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On 3/17/2019 at 8:56 PM, Murotsu said:

My personal preference would be to see them expand the lower tiers into a separate line of pre-dreadnoughts, armored cruisers, and the like where you get true close in contests with broadsides, lots of smoke (black powder, etc.), huge slow firing guns and small quick firing ones that do only a little damage.  All the while you have torpedo boats with one or two torpedoes that are small and short ranged trying to race into point blank range and fire their one or two tubes hoping for a hit.

Maybe add night actions where the ships have to use searchlights to find their targets.

DEF digg that idea.....Would love to see interesting low tier ships like TBoats firing off a pedo or 2 at a time firing forward only...

Now on the low tier note, Im also launching a new Poll on who would be interested in tiers XI - XX.

 

Could be modern days jets on CV's, Missiles on boats, phalanx anti AA, etc. Could still be adopted for closer battles as opposed to the realistic distances these modern Ships battle over.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, drakoolia said:

Now on the low tier note, Im also launching a new Poll on who would be interested in tiers XI - XX.

Could be modern days jets on CV's, Missiles on boats, phalanx anti AA, etc. Could still be adopted for closer battles as opposed to the realistic distances these modern Ships battle over.

I doubt you could go much beyond the 60's or early 70's with such an idea within the game as it currently exists.  Beyond that you are looking at massive changes in sensor systems and how they would have to interact.

Up to the 60's, early 70's, ships were still primarily operating individually.  The had more extensive sensors and guided weapons but they weren't highly integrated.  Past that point what you get is increasing integration of multiple platforms.  That is, one platform acts as the sensor system, another is the weapons platform.  In game terms this might be a carrier player has an AEW aircraft up that is lighting up several opponents.  A cruiser or destroyer with antiship missiles uses the AEW sensors to fire and guide the missiles to a target.  That would be sort of like player A puts a spotter plane up and player B gets to use it to fire on targets.

Or, even how would you model this ship?

USS_Chicago_(CG-11)_underway_in_the_West

It has two very different missile systems aboard (Talos and Tartar--- long range and short range), along with 2 5"/38 single gun turrets.  It's designed to be used with a carrier, not independently so playing it as an individual ship would put it at a big disadvantage.  It has good AA and ASW systems but really lacks any good anti-ship capacity as the carrier is expected to be the ship killer.

On the flip side you have Soviet ships like the Kynda class cruiser, a rough contemporary of the Chicago above:

kynda-DNST9100402.JPG

Now you have antiship missiles, a SAM launcher (forward), guns aft (76mm twin mounts), antiship torpedo tubes amidships, and limited ASW capacity.  It might have a Ka 25 helicopter that would act more or less like a spotter plane to extend the ASM range, but it's designed as a stand-alone platform not as an integrated part of a larger task force.

Also, how would you model the electronic warfare systems both ships have?  I think this would be a 

can-of-worms.jpg

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On 3/17/2019 at 5:56 PM, Murotsu said:

My personal preference would be to see them expand the lower tiers into a separate line of pre-dreadnoughts, armored cruisers, and the like where you get true close in contests with broadsides, lots of smoke (black powder, etc.), huge slow firing guns and small quick firing ones that do only a little damage.  All the while you have torpedo boats with one or two torpedoes that are small and short ranged trying to race into point blank range and fire their one or two tubes hoping for a hit.

Maybe add night actions where the ships have to use searchlights to find their targets.

Well as far as torpedo craft are concerned take a look at the USS Smith already in game.  She would be one of the most advanced destroyer types built with single tube launchers before navies adopted the twin launchers most commonly seen during WWII.  Of course, Smith was not the beginning of destroyer designs.  If anyone is interested, here's a post that covers most of the key DD designs which immediately pre-date the ships you now see in WOWS.  

As far as battleships are concerned, Pre-Dreadnought battleships used guns that either were identical to or closely related to the guns used by the 1st generation of Dreadnoughts presented in WOWs.  12 or 11 inch guns were fairly standard though there were also faster firing designs using 9.2 inch to 10 inch guns as well.  Most of these guns either used one of two varieties of "smokeless" powder such as those used by the ships in WOWS or "semi-smokelss" brown powder for some of the earliest of the type.  Secondary batteries were not especially small but mostly consisted of the ubiquitous 6 inch BL (breach loading) or QF (Quick firing) guns, though some vessels used guns from around 4 inches to 10 inches for this purpose. 

Here's a post about these vessels for each of the major powers of that time. 

 I think this era from starting around 1890 through just before WWI is particularly fascinating.  If anything the progress of technology impacted this era with rapid changes that, if anything, were at least as revolutionary as that shown in the main WOWS ships.  I think this is essentially unexplored territory for WOWS that I hope they someday find a way to address. 

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I'd go back a bit earlier to about 1880 or so.  That way you can get a whole panoply of oddball ships in transition from sail to steam and from muzzleloaders to breechloaders.  Maybe toss in the (in)famous Russian round battleships for fun (they're a few years earlier but who's counting?).

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On 4/18/2019 at 2:37 PM, Murotsu said:

I doubt you could go much beyond the 60's or early 70's with such an idea within the game as it currently exists.  Beyond that you are looking at massive changes in sensor systems and how they would have to interact.

Up to the 60's, early 70's, ships were still primarily operating individually.  The had more extensive sensors and guided weapons but they weren't highly integrated.  Past that point what you get is increasing integration of multiple platforms.  That is, one platform acts as the sensor system, another is the weapons platform.  In game terms this might be a carrier player has an AEW aircraft up that is lighting up several opponents.  A cruiser or destroyer with antiship missiles uses the AEW sensors to fire and guide the missiles to a target.  That would be sort of like player A puts a spotter plane up and player B gets to use it to fire on targets.

Or, even how would you model this ship?

USS_Chicago_(CG-11)_underway_in_the_West

It has two very different missile systems aboard (Talos and Tartar--- long range and short range), along with 2 5"/38 single gun turrets.  It's designed to be used with a carrier, not independently so playing it as an individual ship would put it at a big disadvantage.  It has good AA and ASW systems but really lacks any good anti-ship capacity as the carrier is expected to be the ship killer.

On the flip side you have Soviet ships like the Kynda class cruiser, a rough contemporary of the Chicago above:

kynda-DNST9100402.JPG

Now you have antiship missiles, a SAM launcher (forward), guns aft (76mm twin mounts), antiship torpedo tubes amidships, and limited ASW capacity.  It might have a Ka 25 helicopter that would act more or less like a spotter plane to extend the ASM range, but it's designed as a stand-alone platform not as an integrated part of a larger task force.

Also, how would you model the electronic warfare systems both ships have?  I think this would be a 

can-of-worms.jpg

So you are going waaayyyy too deep down the rabbit hole.

 

You don't need to model anything advanced in terms of sensors per se or how these systems interact, what would be the point?

 

All you need to do is lower the distances needed to fire the more advanced guns....you can create a virtual lob angle for any of the missile systems.....you can just basically lower the real world effectiveness of it all..after all.otherwise 1 cv could take out both fleets in a match no problem if they were going to be realistic .

 

Warthunders already doing it. But I believe wg could do it better.

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 6:40 PM, Murotsu said:

I'd go back a bit earlier to about 1880 or so.  That way you can get a whole panoply of oddball ships in transition from sail to steam and from muzzleloaders to breechloaders.  Maybe toss in the (in)famous Russian round battleships for fun (they're a few years earlier but who's counting?).

With the way the game is set up going back is the only way to add new challenges why not go all the way back and add Napoleonic, American Revolution, Spanish Armada era ships. Ships like HMS Warrior, USS Constitution, HMS Victory, USS Bonhome Richard etc. 

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On 4/22/2019 at 1:05 AM, snakes3425 said:

With the way the game is set up going back is the only way to add new challenges why not go all the way back and add Napoleonic, American Revolution, Spanish Armada era ships. Ships like HMS Warrior, USS Constitution, HMS Victory, USS Bonhome Richard etc. 

I could see all that being tiers -1 through tiers -20..the further back you go...starting @ tier -20.

 

 

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On 3/17/2019 at 7:28 PM, DOC365 said:

SMS Szent Istvan of the WW 1 Austro-Hungarian navy would make a good new Tier 5 ship. What do you think about it?

kuk-szent-istvan-1915-battleship.png

Given the Imperial-Royal Navy isn't represented it would be amazing to see Austria-Hungary finally show up 

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On 4/18/2019 at 6:40 PM, Murotsu said:

I'd go back a bit earlier to about 1880 or so.  That way you can get a whole panoply of oddball ships in transition from sail to steam and from muzzleloaders to breechloaders.  Maybe toss in the (in)famous Russian round battleships for fun (they're a few years earlier but who's counting?).

I'd totally be down for tiers -10 to tier -1

 

TOTALLY down with that....maybe with some fun wonky mechanics thrown in for good measure....

 

 

 

 

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