Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Zaydin

To destroyers who complain about being 'permaspotted by CVs', I have some simple advice

81 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3
[MHG]
Members
31 posts
2,459 battles
Just now, SJ_Sailer said:

So dropping on a DD that is broadside but actively turning into the torps can cause you to miss the arming distance?  So best advice is still to turn into torps I guess.  Sims does have a tight turning radius.

Correct. Torpedo drops are generally dropped at the absolute last moment for US and British CVs. I don't have the IJN line so I can't speak for those but if I drop too early it gives you more time to adjust and cause me to miss. If I drop too late you get a thud with no teeth. Turning into them is the best way to handle it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
331
[KRAB]
Members
706 posts
6,942 battles

I have played a fair bit of CV since the rework, and can state categorically that a DD with AA turned off is a LOT harder to take out than one with AA up. You need to predict his movement in order to hit with rocket planes (as their detection is smaller than your minimum drop distance) and USN dive bombers will often have to drop perpendicular to you (when they hit much harder if they get a long-axis drop). With your AA on the CV has to dodge flak, but they know where you are, which way you are turning and can adapt accordingly. 

I find the best strategy is to keep AA off until the planes are about to hit your base air detection, then turn AA on to ambush them with a flak burst they don't expect at 2.9-3km, then turn AA off when they leave the same range. The CV will have a lot of trouble lining up a drop (since you see his planes even when you disappear) and will still suffer from AA when they try and attack directly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,379
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
17,401 posts
15,874 battles
46 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Turn your damn AA off. It can be that simple. At higher tiers especially, your AA range will be twice what your aerial detection range is. Having your AA on if you aren't under direct attack or trying to support a friendly under air attack just gives your position away to the enemy carrier and, in turn, the carriers team.

Is it guaranteed to protect you? No, of course not. But making it harder for the enemy CV to know where you are will improve your life expectancy.

Let the downvotes from destroyer mains commence.

I thought this was already standard DD practice to turn AA off unless being directly attacked?  Maybe if you got an AA DD like Kidd trolling CVs you can go all willy-nilly with AA, but everyone else was supposed to already turn it off.  This was standard practice before the CV Rework, was it not?  :Smile_teethhappy:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,001
[USCC2]
Members
4,429 posts
2 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Nah, baDDies have a tendency to refuse to admit them getting sunk was their fault. Saw a DD player whine that it took him thirty seconds to get away from a radar boat and when people pointed out that meant he got too close he went into denial.

Have to disagree.

I've never heard a ship type blame their poor play on something or someone else - just a bad player...and every ship type has them. :Smile_honoring:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
227
[-BUI-]
Members
562 posts
2,537 battles
12 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

So dropping on a DD that is broadside but actively turning into the torps can cause you to miss the arming distance?  So best advice is still to turn into torps I guess.  Sims does have a tight turning radius.

Turn into torps, turn into rockets, turn broadside to dive bombers.

If you're really fast or the planes spot you late, turning into bombers can also be effective (basically they don't have enough time to get to point blank and have to drop from higher, which means more misses)...but if you are lined up from distance, broadside or angled is the best way to go.    Turning into bombers that lined you up is just giving them an easy target.

Edited by Zenn3k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
626 posts
1,458 battles
4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I thought this was already standard DD practice to turn AA off unless being directly attacked?  Maybe if you got an AA DD like Kidd trolling CVs you can go all willy-nilly with AA, but everyone else was supposed to already turn it off.  This was standard practice before the CV Rework, was it not?  :Smile_teethhappy:

I mean they put an off button on there for a reason right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
524
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester
1,881 posts
2,681 battles

USS Kidd captains don't turn off no AA.....   Everyone of those I  try to attack with planes just starts chasing me around.   I literally run from those things with planes.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
322
[DOTM]
Beta Testers
611 posts
6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I thought this was already standard DD practice to turn AA off unless being directly attacked?  Maybe if you got an AA DD like Kidd trolling CVs you can go all willy-nilly with AA, but everyone else was supposed to already turn it off.  This was standard practice before the CV Rework, was it not?  :Smile_teethhappy:

You'd be surprised how many destroyers I've come across that don't turn their AA off. Who then rage about CVs being OP when they get pummeled by my team because they gave their position away by leaving their AA on.

  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
626 posts
1,458 battles
2 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

USS Kidd captains don't turn off no AA.....   Everyone of those I  try to attack with planes just starts chasing me around.   I literally run from those things with planes.    

Really a T8 boat in a T10 fight and you still intimidate CV's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[MHG]
Members
31 posts
2,459 battles
1 minute ago, RA6E_ said:

USS Kidd captains don't turn off no AA.....   Everyone of those I  try to attack with planes just starts chasing me around.   I literally run from those things with planes.   

Uptier or nah? Midway can certainly drop on the USS Kidd. It MAY cost some planes to do it but again- CVs are starting to drop one or two loads of planes before they even find targets to hit because of how risky it can be to send an entire squad into aa. You can lose roughly 1/3rd of your planes per run and not deplane yourself for the entire match provided you mix up the attack runs. No reason to be afraid of Kidd if you are dropping some planes before you strike anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
524
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester
1,881 posts
2,681 battles
3 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Really a T8 boat in a T10 fight and you still intimidate CV's?

 

2 minutes ago, Cakeman826 said:

Uptier or nah? Midway can certainly drop on the USS Kidd. It MAY cost some planes to do it but again- CVs are starting to drop one or two loads of planes before they even find targets to hit because of how risky it can be to send an entire squad into aa. You can lose roughly 1/3rd of your planes per run and not deplane yourself for the entire match provided you mix up the attack runs. No reason to be afraid of Kidd if you are dropping some planes before you strike anyways.

 

Geeze you guys have absolutely no sense of humor at all....       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,997
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
9,710 posts

Yes, DO turn it off. If I fly over you and your AA(A) is not pak-pak-pakking... I'll wait for an opening a couple of km from you and drop a fighter group. I can go on with my attack, then turn back and hunt you down. 

Seriously, if somebody (no matter the ship type) wants you sunk you will be sunk. Most often though, it costs the hunter the match but hey, at least they got what they wanted out of the match - you, sunk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
626 posts
1,458 battles
1 minute ago, RA6E_ said:

Geeze you guys have absolutely no sense of humor at all....       

Your avatar is a flaming skull, dude we take you seriously.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[MHG]
Members
31 posts
2,459 battles
3 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

Geeze you guys have absolutely no sense of humor at all....

To be fair.... the avatar is a bit scary :P

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,379
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
17,401 posts
15,874 battles
11 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

I mean they put an off button on there for a reason right?

I'm a guy that primarily plays Cruisers and Battleships, but even I know to turn off AA on my DDs except for very specific situations :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[STW]
Members
141 posts
10,000 battles
51 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Once you are spotted by the CV, turn it on or you are giving free shots to the CV.

This.  So...Much...This.  I literally dropped 4 consecutive dive bombers on a Shimakaze and he only thought of turning on the AA as I was diving for the 4th approach....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,053
[DRACS]
Members
4,115 posts

I highly doubt the whiniest of the DD mafia cares for any advice whatsoever. They'd rather play like potatoes, totally unwilling to adapt to the new meta, just so they can point at the fact that they are being attacked and that CVs are too strong, even when they themselves are playing poorly. I mean, Wargaming *massively* nerfed the ability of CVs to spot and delete DDs, especially with rocket planes, and also greatly buffed AA to counter them, and I don't think it makes an ounce of difference to them. In their mind, they will keep on whining in the very faint (read: non existent) hope that CVs will be removed entirely so they can go back to having full visibility control and dominating matches like they always have.

tl;dr: Those DDs who know how to play already do turn off their AA before being spotted. Those who refuse to learn will keep on refusing to learn.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[MHG]
Members
31 posts
2,459 battles
7 minutes ago, PrivateJoker13 said:

This.  So...Much...This.  I literally dropped 4 consecutive dive bombers on a Shimakaze and he only thought of turning on the AA as I was diving for the 4th approach....

I still advise that you leave it off unless you know you are the intended target. All you do is draw my eye to you when you start shooting my planes and at that point your detection is so far out lining up a shot is really easy. Once you know you are the target let it rip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
76
[AK]
Beta Testers
356 posts
9,896 battles
54 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

It's...not that simple, but knowing when to turn your AA off is a big deal now, something that a lot of DD players haven't gotten their heads around. The other lessons are not to rush out alone, to stick with strong AA ships during the early parts of a game, and to know when it's safe to "detach" and start playing like a maverick.

This is gold for new DD players. If you are in a heavy radar/ or a CV is present do NOT let anyone pressure you into rushing for a cap early in the game unless you have cover. The moment you trip that circle and start the cap timer you are begging for the CV/near by radar ships to come over and have a chat with you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
675
[NWNG]
Members
2,558 posts
4,415 battles
1 hour ago, Zaydin said:

Turn your damn AA off. It can make a huge difference. At higher tiers especially, your AA range will be twice what your aerial detection range is. Having your AA on if you aren't under direct attack or trying to support a friendly under air attack just gives your position away to the enemy carrier and, in turn, the carriers team.

Is it guaranteed to protect you? No, of course not. But making it harder for the enemy CV to know where you are will improve your life expectancy.

oh, but where is the fun in using logic to solve my issues? The fun comes in when one purposefully disables the key-bind to turning off the AA, and just let the brain naturally absorb information, until it becomes king of not giving a crap about being perma-spotted.:Smile_veryhappy:

In all seriousness though, this is sound advice, and every DD player, should actually take this advice to heart. Seriously, unless you're being spotted by something other than aircraft, there should be no reason your AA is turned on... Or unless you're in smoke with allies able to keep the aircraft lit up for you (I did get 30 aircraft shot down in a Shimakaze once)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
626 posts
1,458 battles
3 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

I highly doubt the whiniest of the DD mafia cares for any advice whatsoever. They'd rather play like potatoes, totally unwilling to adapt to the new meta, just so they can point at the fact that they are being attacked and that CVs are too strong, even when they themselves are playing poorly. I mean, Wargaming *massively* nerfed the ability of CVs to spot and delete DDs, especially with rocket planes, and also greatly buffed AA to counter them, and I don't think it makes an ounce of difference to them. In their mind, they will keep on whining in the very faint (read: non existent) hope that CVs will be removed entirely so they can go back to having full visibility control and dominating matches like they always have.

tl;dr: Those DDs who know how to play already do turn off their AA before being spotted. Those who refuse to learn will keep on refusing to learn.

You know I think there is more to that.  I would imagine if CV were as popular as DD or BB or CAs there would be a big issue of having long MM wait times.  It is all about keeping the right balance of classes and tiers in the MM mix.  It can't be easy or random.  I imagine they must tweak things to keep the ships players choose to play in the correct ratio.

Not trolling, really not trolling, just stating an opinion. I love all the CV advice given freely here.  But when you really think about it, keeping the MM working has to be really tough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
626 posts
1,458 battles
4 minutes ago, Seloth said:

 do NOT let anyone pressure you into rushing for a cap early in the game unless you have cover.

This 100%, they do not even have to say a thing, it is sort of understood that DD's rush the cap and if you do not you are chicken and people shoot shells across your bow.

The #1 reason for dying in the first 3 minutes of battle.  At least for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,299
Members
20,838 posts
5,614 battles
1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Question, what if you have a US DD like the Sims with decent AA (At least for a Destroyer) with 400% DFAA and Zone Boost?  Still keep it off?

Seriously asking.

Thanks.

That depends, do you want to be seen or not?

If you're relatively safe from enemy ships, you can leave it on and ambush the planes. (if your DFAA is on cooldown, maybe leave it off, otherwise your AA range means attack planes have time to line up a decent run) 

If not, leave it off until you're spotted. No point wiping an enemy squadron, just to get deep-sixed by his floating buddies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,299
Members
20,838 posts
5,614 battles
26 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Yes, DO turn it off. If I fly over you and your AA(A) is not pak-pak-pakking... I'll wait for an opening a couple of km from you and drop a fighter group. I can go on with my attack, then turn back and hunt you down. 

Obviously, (or maybe not, can't forget where I am lol) you turn it back on when you're spotted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
189
[90TH]
Members
606 posts
8,781 battles
1 hour ago, Zaydin said:

Turn your damn AA off. It can make a huge difference. At higher tiers especially, your AA range will be twice what your aerial detection range is. Having your AA on if you aren't under direct attack or trying to support a friendly under air attack just gives your position away to the enemy carrier and, in turn, the carriers team.

Is it guaranteed to protect you? No, of course not. But making it harder for the enemy CV to know where you are will improve your life expectancy.

Are your stats hidden?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×