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The_Chiv

Cv players Dont be baited

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Recently I had a match where it was midway v midway, Me and a yammy pushed south to A against a Conq and a DM. I was in a DM as well. The yammy nuked the enemy dm with some help from me and I was able to finish off the conq with some help from the yammy and our midway. During this engagement, the Enemy midway sent wave after wave at our teams Yammy and me. When I killed all his rockets and then later all his Torps I decided to rub it in a bit. Now I admit it was childish, but if I could get the Cv to try and focus me then the rest of my team at A and b could get the job done without too much interference. 

The plan worked. After finishing off another DM I was joined by a lion and our combined aa and great dfaa timing allowed me to not only remove most of his planes but to put damage on him and a few other ships ensuring the died. It was a great fight, but I have to wonder if I hadn't bruised the cv's ego with a bit of banter would he have played a bit smarter?

Right now the enviroment for cv can be very rough with so many usn cruisers being active in the game, cause radar and aa are the most important tools, however the enemy cv, was easily baited and if he would have kept his head and not let his ego dictate his actions he could have easily focused elsewhere and gotten kills and turn the tables.

 

TLDR: DM baits a Midway into wasting 51 planes on him by making silly childish comments and ends up ensuring his team gets the victroy.

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IMHO T10 AA is over tuned. DMs/Wors/Salem/Mino makes a very large no fly zone on the map and completely shuts down a CV. You *might* get one strike off with a full squadron around one of those ships, around two it's GG. Not sure what should be done, increase plane HP, decrease AA dmg and range, something. 

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4 minutes ago, Shad0wFiend said:

IMHO T10 AA is over tuned. DMs/Wors/Salem/Mino makes a very large no fly zone on the map and completely shuts down a CV. You *might* get one strike off with a full squadron around one of those ships, around two it's GG. Not sure what should be done, increase plane HP, decrease AA dmg and range, something. 

Apparently AA is being wierd right now, with overlapping AA multiplying the effect instead of just being additive.

A fix is being worked on, apparently, but I have no idea when it’s due.

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10 minutes ago, Shad0wFiend said:

IMHO T10 AA is over tuned. DMs/Wors/Salem/Mino makes a very large no fly zone on the map and completely shuts down a CV. You *might* get one strike off with a full squadron around one of those ships, around two it's GG. Not sure what should be done, increase plane HP, decrease AA dmg and range, something. 

the midway was able to drop 2 drops of torps on me pretty consistently in 1 v 1 so I would say aa is not over tuned. Most of the kills came from post drop not pre-drop. This right here is why every aa cruiser is annoyed with aa, they are able to do little to stop or lessen the attack and only punish plane eco. I should have added several times he flew into my flack while dfaa was up...So nice seeing those spikes.

The issue here was not " AA  OP". Sorry folks USN ships are actually UP. by t10 all usn ships would carry VT or Funny Fuse shells This effect would allow them to be used from ranges of 100m to 17km depending on the gun caliber. In the game however, what we get is a massive gutting. The 76mm gun on the dm and the Worchester is gimped to 4km. that's like 1/4 of its range, but planes can have the speed of the Concord via compression and agility that would not be seen on planes till thrust vectoring.

The issue has more to do with cv making the same mistake over and over again. If I was killing most of his planes as they were coming in for an attack I would say ok you might have some merit to your argument, but they were all post attack. So aa is not denying the chance to attack. The only thing aa cruisers like the DM and the Worchester do is create a punishment zone. you can get 1 attack and maybe lose a few planes or you can push for 2 or more and lose them all. While this may seem horrible to a cv player, remember this is a team game so working with your team is equally important to victory. If you are pushing into an area you know there is a aa cruiser then who is to blame? As for overlapping aa from a lion at range is pretty low in comparison to usn ships.

At some point player error must be accepted as a factor for results. I'm sorry, you may not want to hear this, but even the Super Unicum players have said this. Its not the boats, but it's you.

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So you could say the enemy is the master.... baiter?

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34 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

TLDR: DM baits a Midway into wasting 51 planes on him by making silly childish comments and ends up ensuring his team gets the victroy.

 

This community is toxic enough without adding trash talking to it.

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31 minutes ago, Shad0wFiend said:

IMHO T10 AA is over tuned. DMs/Wors/Salem/Mino makes a very large no fly zone on the map and completely shuts down a CV. You *might* get one strike off with a full squadron around one of those ships, around two it's GG. Not sure what should be done, increase plane HP, decrease AA dmg and range, something. 

But how was that any different from pre-rework cruisers?

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34 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Apparently AA is being wierd right now, with overlapping AA multiplying the effect instead of just being additive.

A fix is being worked on, apparently, but I have no idea when it’s due.

I don’t know why people keep saying this and hoping that change is coming.?  WG said that the overlapping AA tuning has already been done, I have seen nothing since then to indicate any more nerfs to AA?

Quite the contrary, nerfs to Kaga and the upcoming ‘by popular request ‘ RDF nerf are inbound.

Its not like they aren’t communicating, I guess people just don’t want to hear it.

 

OP:  Yeah just what the game...yes recreational GAME... needed, more toxicity in an already toxic game.

Dressing it up as a ‘tactic’ and inspiring others to do the same is what continues to

drive others away(10% player retention after 90 days).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Kevik70 said:

But how was that any different from pre-rework cruisers?

Prework could kill them pre drop pretty consistently ask any hak player pre 8.0 what they thought about the Worchester they would say something like "avoid if at all possible"

9 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

This community is toxic enough without adding trash talking to it.

My trash talking consisted of "Hey cv you mad bro?", "Can you send me more planes would like to get at least 40", "Nom nom nom". I would call this friendly banter more then anything else.

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5 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Prework could kill them pre drop pretty consistently ask any hak player pre 8.0 what they thought about the Worchester they would say something like "avoid if at all possible"

 

Worcester, Minotaure and DM can still kill planes pre drop consistently. And if the CV goes for a second drop it's a pretty much heavy lost for him. Those ship remains AA monster. Pre 8.0 you don't wanna attack DM, Worcester or Minotaure, after 8.0 they remain no fly zone.

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Mid tier CVs like Furious that I have beenntesting to see how they work seem to actually be more effective at being eyes for the team with some occasional air strikes if can manage them. Doing this has seemed more successful than simply trying to do damage like old RTS CVs.

This really does make CVs more of an Auxiliary class of ships which is how they were viewed WWI through early WWII years. Until Pearl Harbor really made a crystal clear and devastating end to the debate, although even then the CVs would still be thought of slightly as still Auxiliary at times for few years after Pearl Harbor.

So really for WOWs playerbase and gameplay as a whole the CVs being pushed back into Auxiliary status is quite alright. Especially when most seem to prefer the old historical style of thinking where BBs, CAs, and DDs are the main combatants to be relied on and fought against.

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18 minutes ago, Theodin said:

...drive others away(10% player retention after 90 days).

...and I supposed carriers being turned into a useless joke because of AA slaughter that would make Jason proud, and other issues mentioned elsewhere, has nothing to do with the loss of players.

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7 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Mid tier CVs like Furious that I have beenntesting to see how they work seem to actually be more effective at being eyes for the team with some occasional air strikes if can manage them. Doing this has seemed more successful than simply trying to do damage like old RTS CVs.

This really does make CVs more of an Auxiliary class of ships which is how they were viewed WWI through early WWII years. Until Pearl Harbor really made a crystal clear and devastating end to the debate, although even then the CVs would still be thought of slightly as still Auxiliary at times for few years after Pearl Harbor.

So really for WOWs playerbase and gameplay as a whole the CVs being pushed back into Auxiliary status is quite alright. Especially when most seem to prefer the old historical style of thinking where BBs, CAs, and DDs are the main combatants to be relied on and fought against.

with the furious I agree I spend most of my time in rockets hunting dds and keeping them lit. once that it done I switch to torps and hunt the slow bbs...

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

...and I supposed carriers being turned into a useless joke because of AA slaughter that would make Jason proud, and other issues mentioned elsewhere, has nothing to do with the loss of players.

when the top players can consistently get 200k  with a cv that speaks volumes of what can be done with enough skill and practice. Now if those Super unicums were struggling to break 50k I would say ok thats an issue, but its not. If they can do it then with enough practice so can you.

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NM not getting in this

Edited by crzyhawk

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It's the CVs fault for not getting the team to take out a cruiser.  It's pretty easy to sneak in a single flight of torp bombers to get CCs to turn broadside to a waiting BB.   A good CV is watching the entire map, knows where the targets are and is relaying info to his team.  Twice today I've had a team that listened to me and we won.  When a DD needed to be worked over, I helped.  When I needed CCs shredded, the team stepped up.  It's pretty easy to get any ship in the game to turn a certain direction and with a ship or two waiting to blast them, it's an extremely effective tactic.   Lone CVs are easy to shut down, if however a team is working together, 2 cruisers are going to get eaten very quickly. 

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48 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

with the furious I agree I spend most of my time in rockets hunting dds and keeping them lit. once that it done I switch to torps and hunt the slow bbs...

I actually often have more luck inndive bombers against the DDs, and use the Rocjets against CAs or to soften up BBs or CVs before sending in torpedo bombers. Since if luck is with me I can knock out some AA on the BBs or CVs to allow my torpedo Bombers to be safer. And since rockets are more of an Auxiliary attack for me it matters a little less if the fighters get shot down if they managed to at least as I said soften up targets for the bombers.

Still probably going to sell the RN CVs off, but if they prove amusing I may keep them for little while since after the full compensation from USN and IJN CVs I am good on Port Slots and credits for now. So the RN CVs may  get to stay until Italian ships, subs, or other such ship lines that interest me arrive. (The RU BBs are of no interest to me)

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1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

when the top players can consistently get 200k  with a cv that speaks volumes of what can be done with enough skill and practice. Now if those Super unicums were struggling to break 50k I would say ok thats an issue, but its not. If they can do it then with enough practice so can you.

If perhaps everyone had the same motor skill, perception, analytical, and reaction ability, that might be the case.

Unfortunatly all players are not equal, and they never will be.

WG wanted more players using carriers, if only unicums are capable of using them consistently because of the game mechanics; then that’s no different than it was under RTS, and renders the entire effort put into the rework pointless.

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10 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I actually often have more luck inndive bombers against the DDs, and use the Rocjets against CAs or to soften up BBs or CVs before sending in torpedo bombers. Since if luck is with me I can knock out some AA on the BBs or CVs to allow my torpedo Bombers to be safer. And since rockets are more of an Auxiliary attack for me it matters a little less if the fighters get shot down if they managed to at least as I said soften up targets for the bombers.

Still probably going to sell the RN CVs off, but if they prove amusing I may keep them for little while since after the full compensation from USN and IJN CVs I am good on Port Slots and credits for now. So the RN CVs may  get to stay until Italian ships, subs, or other such ship lines that interest me arrive. (The RU BBs are of no interest to me)

 

Now I maybe wrong but looking at the stats for all t10 CV's it seems the rn is kinda meh with exception to dd interdiction and maybe Cruiser suppression. Every other possible role I could consider is done far better by IJN and USN

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5 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

If perhaps everyone had the same motor skill, perception, analytical, and reaction ability, that might be the case.

Unfortunatly all players are not equal, and they never will be.

WG wanted more players using carriers, if only unicums are capable of using them consistently because of the game mechanics; then that’s no different than it was under RTS, and renders the entire effort put into the rework pointless.

Could you imagine if a professional sports team were forced into your ideology? My 40-year old self would be a point guard for the Magic, trust me I SUX at basketball, however, I have no illusion of my skill or expectations of any organization to compensate for my lack of ability and or skill. You mention some aspects that not all players are equal. I would point out that many of the skills needed to use a cv are used daily by anyone who drives a car. Navigating traffic, finding a parking spot at a mall, they all use similar skill sets.

The pre-rework era was a nightmare for several reasons, mostly because the learning curve to be effective was so damn steep. Post rework the learning curve is pretty damn simple: avoid groups of cruisers, scout dds, punish stragglers, communicate with teams. However what we see in the game is Cvs trying to focus single target at the detriment to the rest of their team, no communication, and attack angles that are so oblique you have to wonder what the player was thinking.

By this point and previously it should be academic. If you dont know which ships are strong aa ships you will find out fast and once you do a simple message in chat can help you out tons. "Hey can you guys focus that DM he is eating my planes alive" or my personal favorite, "FFS KILL THAT F***ING Worchester". Now I know taking 3 seconds to type out a plea for focus fire may be difficult for a cv player, so WG made it simple for you...its called the F3 key.

Once you begin to work with your team and begin to win your skill will increase in time and eventually you could become the next Gaishu. Demanding nerfs to make your lack of skill and or unwillingness for self-improvement is not only pure entitlement, but it is also insulting to everyone who has worked hard to become better. This is a team game, not a me me me game. Those who work with the team will end up having a much better time and reap rewards from it. Those who think coming to the forums and blaming something and demanding changes so they will not have to even make an attempt to self improve should suffer for it.

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22 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

 

Now I maybe wrong but looking at the stats for all t10 CV's it seems the rn is kinda meh with exception to dd interdiction and maybe Cruiser suppression. Every other possible role I could consider is done far better by IJN and USN

To be honest any job the tier the CVs are doing can be done by other ships. Except for long range spotting and scouting that needs to be done pretty much immediately. Or maybe finishingboff a crippled ship that an allied ship did not quite manage to sink before getting their ship ship sunk. If any real type of DPM is needed then surface ships need to do the bulk of it. And ones the DDs get far enough up the map they can do the spotting, so really as I mentioned in earlier post the CVs are really just Auxiliary ships with limited capabilities to decide the outcome of battles.

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Just now, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

To be honest any job the tier the CVs are doing can be done by other ships. Except for long range spotting and scouting that needs to be done pretty much immediately. Or maybe finishingboff a crippled ship that an allied ship did not quite manage to sink before getting their ship ship sunk. If any real type of DPM is needed then surface ships need to do the bulk of it. And ones the DDs get far enough up the map they can do the spotting, so really as I mentioned in earlier post the CVs are really just Auxiliary ships with limited capabilities to decide the outcome of battles.

I made mention of this in other threads. You can look at other ships in some interesting ways, Scout, skirmisher, tank,zone denial. And when it comes to cv the best classification i could come up with was Command and Control. People seem to undervalue spotting and or directing the flow of battle, which tbh is the greatest aspect of a cv, but because it is not nuking for people 24/7 they get upset.

Cv's can force a premature smoke from a dd thus denying objective control or chase them far enough to where they are less threatening. Cv can also ensure flanking runs by dds are blunted hard and alert the rest of the fleet to these actions, that right there can change the balance of any match. Once your team gets ahead then this is where a cv shines...Having less ships and many running to regen and regroup opens up a slew of isolated targets that can be punished by a cv, but the cv community wants 24/7 daka and no counterplay. anything less is unacceptable to them. Even when provided proof that cvs are nowhere near as bad as they think they are it falls on deaf ears because they just don't understand the ship's role.

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I still remember the game with Musashi on the red team that was taunting my team with two Midways on it, about how Musashi AA is no longer crap.  Oh well, he did not make it.  I found it pretty funny.

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3 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

TLDR: DM baits a Midway into wasting 51 planes on him by making silly childish comments and ends up ensuring his team gets the victroy.

So you are telling that you are one of the idiots that makes having a chat a real pleasure for the other players. I had another moron like you last week sailing in a Kidd. Provoking me to attack him with my planes. He called my mom a [edited] and other things just so i would attack him. Didn't work of course. The only thing that changed was the fact that i installed the aslain mod with the chat disabled. I have zero tolerance for morons like you in game. You are the type of people that makes online game a terrible experience.

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