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Shenanigans_Abound

Wargamings biggest mistake yet?

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I had this post earlier but made an error in judgment with wording and I apologize to WG and the community for that but was told I can re post once the errors were removed so here it is  

 

Wargaming has officially made their biggest mistake, bigger than the re work or any nerf they’ve ever done. You caved to pay to play players. Posts are already starting about reverting previously nerfed premiums. How long before people will be saying “I paid money to convert free xp to get that ship, you can’t nerf that” Wanna nerf the Alaska in the future? You can’t do that now because it was for sale for real money at one point, wanna nerf Jean Bart at some point in the future? You can’t do that now because it was for sale for real money at some point. Someone will now always find a reason to justify something can’t be nerfed because they spent money in one way or another to get it, whether it was converting to free xp or getting doubloons because it was only in the tech tree and not the store the haragumo and kitakaze come to mind, ships that desperately need a nerf but a lot of people free xp’ed to those ships and probably spent money to do so, now they can’t be nerfed because of that, at least that’s what players will say because you caved once, why wouldn’t you do it again? I’m sorry wargaming but you’ve seriously messed up in a big way and have officially solidified your position as yet another game that chooses money over balance and that has been the death blow for many games before you. The second you start caring more about a dollar than actual balance the flood gates are opened to a never ending cascade of imbalance and overpowered everything to counter what was already overpowered. I’m sure some people will say “but I spent real money, why should they nerf it” well because some people, myself included are more happy with a balanced game than money I spent on something and still get to keep but I guess that puts me in the minority. Players that are more concerned with the dollar amount they’ve spent than actual balance are not aware or just don’t care of the problems it’s going to create down the road but I guess some time from now, whether it be a week, a month, a year, you’ll understand when ships get released to counter the ships you didn’t want nerfed because of money spent and it becomes just another run of the mill ship and you’ll be asking for buffs. So I say this wargaming, no more buffing premiums. Players don’t want nerfs for balance, there shouldn’t be any buffs to the premiums for balance either. You few players who said you didn’t want your premium ship changed will reap what you sow and unfortunately for those of us that value balance over a dollar amount we will forever suffer the consequences of a bad decision made to favor the few. 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound
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OK, part of me agrees with you.

The reality is WG wants an arcade, small map shooter that sells premium OP ships and then recycles them for newer more OP ships..........over and over and over again.   That's what they are working towards and have been since the cruiser line split wit5h HE span, Gun boats and Radar.  It's where the money is right now!

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1 hour ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

So I say this wargaming, no more buffing premiums. 

Why not? If a given premium is widely acknowledged to just be completely useless - and there are premiums aplenty that fit the bill - why shouldn't those get get some love?

Also, paragraphs next time, please.

Edited by Battleship_Elisabeth
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Why is this a WG mistake?  There is an endless supply of ever more powerful buffs and ships to sell.  As long as the suckers keep lining up and buying the newest powerful toy in the premium shop WG will keep raking it in.

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Like the parents of a spoiled child they caved in to the tantrum the seal clubbers, and P2W crowd threw. 

On one hard I can't blame them, the type of person that buys an OP ship because of FOMO will keep the lights on longer than someone that buys ships because they are historically interesting. On the other hand it was sad to see they openly admit that they don't care about OP premiums ruining certain tiers as long as it keeps the whiny whales happy(not all whales whined).  

Edited by VeatherVitch
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I can already tell from the reactions this is getting that not everyone shares the same thoughts and that’s okay. That’s why I made sure to include that I was in the minority and that’s okay. But one day that equation will flip when they release new OP ships that decimate the current op ships. And then the people who supported the non change will perhaps understand what I’m getting at. You look at it in the short term, “cool I can wreck everything right now” instead of the down the road “everything released will wreck you to offset it”  and it becomes a cascading effect that can’t be stopped. 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound
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23 minutes ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

Why not? If a given premium is widely acknowledged to just be completely useless - and there are premiums aplenty that fit the bill - why shouldn't get get some love?

Also, paragraphs next time, please.

And it should work the other way around.

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Actually, by backing off from nerfing premiums Wargaming has put far, far more pressure on themselves to release balanced paid content in the future. Accountability has been maintained that would have been pissed away had they taken a “we’ll nerf anything at any time” approach. This was in no way a mistake, and to frame it as such is both myopic and short-sighted.

Edited by SkaerKrow
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29 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

Like the parents of a spoiled child they caved in to the tantrum the seal clubbers, and P2W crowd threw. 

On one hard I can't blame them, the type of person that buys an OP ship because of FOMO will keep the lights on longer than someone that buys ships because they are historically interesting. On the other hand it was sad to see they openly admit that they don't care about OP premiums ruining certain tiers as long as it keeps the whiny whales happy(not all whales whined).  

 

You keep throwing that around, and yet you don't ever actually back it up in any way.

On the other hand, there's plenty of solid numbers to show that GC / Kamikaze / Gremy / Belfast / etc are not exerting any particular influence on their tiers in random play.

Edited by LT_Rusty_SWO
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5 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Actually, by backing off from nerfing premiums Wargaming has put far, far more pressure on themselves to release balanced paid content in the future. Accountability has been maintained that would have been pissed away had they taken a “we’ll nerf anything at any tine” approach. This was in no way a mistake, and to frame it as such is both myopic and short-sighted.

Someone else had mentioned that same thing on another post but here’s the thing to remember. A ship that is released perfectly balanced today, might not be perfectly balanced tomorrow because another ship released that exploited an unknown weakness in it. I agree. It’ll put more pressure on them to release ships balanced but again, things change in the game that break that balance. Which is why changes need to be made to ships already in the game to maintain a fair and balanced play system, premium or not. 

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2 minutes ago, Harathan said:

Still haven't successfully explained why the opposite is not also true.

Because they won’t. It’s buffs or nothing. 

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19 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Actually, by backing off from nerfing premiums Wargaming has put far, far more pressure on themselves to release balanced paid content in the future. Accountability has been maintained that would have been pissed away had they taken a “we’ll nerf anything at any tine” approach. This was in no way a mistake, and to frame it as such is both myopic and short-sighted.

And, IMO, they've been doing better regarding that as of late.

I'm still holding my breath on VU, though. Sigh.

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30 minutes ago, T1mb3rWo1f said:

And it should work the other way around.

People keep stating this like it’s some universal law of nature.  I don’t see why so many people think it should go both ways?

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1 minute ago, galspanic said:

People keep stating this like it’s some universal law of nature.  I don’t see why so many people think it should go both ways?

So a ship that wrecks everything it faces is okay and doesn’t need a nerf but a ship that struggles deserves a buff right? So yes, it should work both ways and wargaming has exhibited that fact by buffing ships in the past, premium ships included. 

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23 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

You keep throwing that around, and yet you don't ever actually back it up in any way.

On the other hand, there's plenty of solid numbers to show that GC / Kamikaze / Gremy / Belfast / etc are not exerting any particular influence on their tiers in random play.

Bottom line is an op ship is only op if a player has the skill to make it so. Potatoes like me still potato around in our op ships. 

In the end the player skill has a much bigger influence on the outcome of a match than the ship stats. 

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WG releases said OP ship then removes it from sale because they said it was OP. Two years later oh my rework . Really !!! If you balance something at the start you won't have that issue . Even when said ship was said to be OPed at the beginning before it's sale WG decided to sell it. Again who's at fault the customer for buying it or the distributor for not " balancing " it from the get go. Yes balance it, yes sell it.  But make it two weeks into it not two years into it.

Proud GC owner , funny I didnt consider myself pay to win when I bought her and I still don't .  And no I don't Excel in her . I barely play her. Its the principlel if the matter . That's all.

 

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5 minutes ago, galspanic said:

People keep stating this like it’s some universal law of nature.  I don’t see why so many people think it should go both ways?

I didn't say anything about laws and saying the opposite is no different.

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2 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

Bottom line is an op ship is only op if a player has the skill to make it so. Potatoes like me still potato around in our op ships. 

In the end the player skill has a much bigger influence on the outcome of a match than the ship stats. 

 

Yep.

I do very well in the Kami sisters and okay in Gremy... but I could suck-start the Graf Spee's diesel engines with Belfast or Cesare.

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2 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

Yep.

I do very well in the Kami sisters and okay in Gremy... but I could suck-start the Graf Spee's diesel engines with Belfast or Cesare

 

 

I wonder and truth be told . If you have a Kamikaze R from project R . Are you considered pay to win or a skilled enough player that busted his hind off to get a ship only available for that event.

Hmmmmmmm. :cap_cool:

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40 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

You keep throwing that around, and yet you don't ever actually back it up in any way.

On the other hand, there's plenty of solid numbers to show that GC / Kamikaze / Gremy / Belfast / etc are not exerting any particular influence on their tiers in random play.

The stats have been posted many times, I'm not going to dig them up for your entertainment. Enjoy your OP premiums, I'm sure the new players going up against them will revel in the challenge of overcoming an OP ship they will never be able to buy.

Actually why are any of the whiners on the forums and not out seal clubbing to celebrate their great victory?

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1 minute ago, QQ_Whine_Moar said:

LOL, didn't WG lock this thread once already?

They did out of mistake. I posted it once earlier in the day but it violated terms and I was given permission to repost it as long as I corrected the violations and another admin saw it and locked it not knowing that but the admin I was in communication with unlocked it since everything was corrected and I was given permission to repost it.  Was just told to keep it on subject and within the rules. Which has been happening. I’m not here to argue with people I just had a thought and posted it which I’m allowed to do, I love having discussions. Who knows, maybe someone has a point of view that I don’t and that point of view makes me see things more clearly and same with the other way around. Friendly discussions and sharing info. That’s all. 

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12 minutes ago, Versili said:

 

I wonder and truth be told . If you have a Kamikaze R from project R . Are you considered pay to win or a skilled enough player that busted his hind off to get a ship only available for that event.

Hmmmmmmm. :cap_cool:

Neither, won mine in a contest before it was put on the restricted list. :cap_tea:

Edited by Yoshiblue

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Just now, VeatherVitch said:

The stats have been posted many times, I'm not going to dig them up for your entertainment. Enjoy your OP premiums, I'm sure the new players going up against them will revel in the challenge of overcoming an OP ship they will never be able to buy.

Actually why are any of the whiners on the forums and not out seal clubbing to celebrate their great victory?

 

No, actually, those stats for win rate and damage don't show what you think that they show.

You'd need to have feedback from players who quit at those tiers and attributed it to those ships, and you don't have any kind of (valid) data that shows that.

And I am seal clubbing right now... my OP ships are just OP enough that I can alt-tab out and spend 5 minutes replying to you in between butchering n00bs.

 

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