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Skuggsja

Revert Nerfs (Kaga/Belfast/Kutz)

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So my Kaga, Belfast, and Kutuzov I paid real money for. At some point, you changed them each. You recently decided to not change GC's tier due to complaints. Well, I want my ships back to their performance level as that's what I apparently paid for. I dont want your dubloons as you dont put out good premiums half the time and even premium time is worthless as you dont put out ship lines fast enough for me to need premium bonuses.

You just announced it was ok to have premium ships that are really strong as long as they arent numerous. Well, by now the populations of these ships should have dropped. As a company you just acknowledged that pay to win is ok, so I want my pay to win ships to be pay to win again. No, this isnt a joke or trolling.  This is what you decided, that it was ok to have over performing ship as long as the player base yelled loud enough. Honestly, I'm dead serious as to this now double standard being addressed ASAP.

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Edited by Shinsengumi918
Keeping the thread constructive, thank you.
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I guess the old saying applies.

You can't please everyone.

Either you are unhappy or someone else is unhappy. Catch-22

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5 minutes ago, Prothall said:

I guess the old saying applies.

You can't please everyone.

Either you are unhappy or someone else is unhappy. Catch-22

I think the more appropriate idiom is, "Give an inch and they take a mile."

Or maybe, "This is why we can't have nice things."

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14 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

I hope every owner of these ships jumps on board and asks the same so we can bully you into reverting previous nerfs and compensate us. 

:cap_popcorn:

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Belfast and kutuzov werent directly nerfed. A game mechanic they heavily utilized was changed. Kaga was removed and replaced with decent compensation options. Move along.

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What are you going on about? Neither Belfast nor Kutuzov were directly touched. They were only affected by the exact same global smoke firing nerf as *everyone else*. Hell, even with that in mind, Wargaming still offered doubloons back then in case players were concerned and they really didn't need to do that.

As for Kaga ... not sure what you mean. She got new stats following the CV rework, as did every single other carrier, premium or otherwise. As did every single ship's AA. All of this is till 'Work in Progress'.

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11 minutes ago, Prothall said:

I guess the old saying applies.

You can't please everyone.

Either you are unhappy or someone else is unhappy. Catch-22

Right? This is mostly about a double standard by the company and the community.  I dont actually care of they do anything about it, just pointing out that this whole ordeal is a load of [edited].

Also: "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

5 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I think the more appropriate idiom is, "Give an inch and they take a mile."

Or maybe, "This is why we can't have nice things."

Hey, I just figure why not scream and yell for the other side. I dont actually care if they changed the ships.

3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

:cap_popcorn:

Enjoy your popcorn, this should be entertaining trying to watch people defend GC and not these other ships.

1 minute ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Belfast and kutuzov werent directly nerfed. A game mechanic they heavily utilized was changed. Kaga was removed and replaced with decent compensation options. Move along.

Yes they were, the global nerf influenced their game play to the point that dubloons were offered as compensation. Funny, that's what wargaming had expressed they would do for unhappy GC owners. The best part is they dodnt hand out either of these ships as "come back and play again" carrot on a stick gifts.

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1 minute ago, KaptainKaybe said:

What are you going on about? Neither Belfast nor Kutuzov were directly touched. They were only affected by the exact same global smoke firing nerf as *everyone else*. Hell, even with that in mind, Wargaming still offered doubloons back then in case players were concerned and they really didn't need to do that.

As for Kaga ... not sure what you mean. She got new stats following the CV rework, as did every single other carrier, premium or otherwise. As did every single ship's AA. All of this is till 'Work in Progress'.

Again, doubloon compensation was going to be given for unhappy GC owners. The nerd directly effected those ships. Also dubloons have again and again been said to be worth far less than ever before.

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I'd also like my Tirpitz armor and Secondaries nerfed. I bought a boat with a very specific armor layout and ranged turrets and I do not want them the way they have been change AFTER I paid cash for it.

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38 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

You recently decided to not change GC's tier due to complaints.

Source?

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1 minute ago, _no_one_ said:

Source?

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/185967-psa-giulio-cesare-testing-and-premium-ships-status/?tab=comments#comment-4368354

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Dear players,

Following your feedback and test results, we decided to stop live testing of Giulio Cesare at tier VI and abandon the initiative to individually re-balance premium ships, which were purchased in or directly marketed through our Premium store. Here is the reasoning:

  1. While many of you did support the idea of promoting more balance and fair play, most of you were not willing to support this if it means making changes to purchased premium ships. 
  2. Many of you let us know that the perfect balance in each ship group is not as critical for you as we assumed; however, the confidence that the stats of purchased premium ships are not to be nerfed is much more important. It was not the only opinion voiced, but it was the most frequent in all discussions on all platforms.
  3. According to the majority of your opinions, having several over performing premium ships in the game is not an issue for you, given the fact that they are not sold directly and that they can be countered under the right circumstances; 
  4. Testing Giulio Cesare on tier VI has shown that it can indeed be a balanced tier VI battleship, however, her gameplay experience changed dramatically. The same is true for alternative rebalance options (e.g. nerf on tier V).


As the proposed initiative was based on community feedback, and achieving absolutely perfect balance in each ship group is not a purpose in itself (and it is not really possible anyway, because ships have vastly different play styles, pros and cons, and players have vastly different skill levels), we decided to cancel it. There are not many ships like Giulio Cesare in the game, and most of them are quite old; our balancing process has significantly improved since release, and there is no indication that we will have many such ships in the game. However, if they do appear, we will take appropriate action. For example, as we do now, stop direct sales and limit their distribution to very special occasions, so that their presence in battles is minimal.

Despite the fact that we never had a rule which stated "premium ships are not nerfed individually", we indeed did not do it before and we understand why many of you assumed that there is such a rule.

It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

We sincerely thank you for your opinions and feedback.

Good luck and fair seas! :Smile_honoring:

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Edited by Skuggsja

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3 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

Why do you think this doesn't apply to Kutuzov or Belfast?  It literally says right here why you won't get special treatment for ships when global mechanics are changed. 

Edited by real_icebeast
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16 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

Again, doubloon compensation was going to be given for unhappy GC owners. The nerd directly effected those ships. Also dubloons have again and again been said to be worth far less than ever before.

And AGAIN ... those nerfs did not directly affect those ships because they weren't direct nerfs. By your definition, *every single premium ship in the game* has been nerfed due to the smoke firing changes, the open water stealth firing changes, the Concealment Expert changes, the flooding mechanic changes, and all kinds of other global changes Wargaming needs to put out, usually for logical reasons.

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6 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

I'd also like my Tirpitz armor and Secondaries nerfed. I bought a boat with a very specific armor layout and ranged turrets and I do not want them the way they have been change AFTER I paid cash for it.

Exactly! Just undo it all and start over! Hahaha

Just now, real_icebeast said:

Why do you think this doesn't apply to Kutuzov or Belfast.  It literally says right here why you won't get special treatment for ships when global mechanics are changed. 

Its mostly just being trolly, dont point out flaws! Haha

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Just now, Skuggsja said:

Exactly! Just undo it all and start over! Hahaha

That's right. I fail to see how it is okay to go in one direction but people scream bloody murder in the other.

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9 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

And AGAIN ... those nerfs did not directly affect those ships because they weren't direct nerfs. By your definition, *every single premium ship in the game* has been nerfed due to the smoke firing changes, the open water stealth firing changes, the Concealment Expert changes, the flooding mechanic changes, and all kinds of other global changes Wargaming needs to put out, usually for logical reasons.

Yes they were, hence why dubloon compensation was offered. To keep the aspects that made them perform well, the gameplay had to change and the captain skills and module choices were effected. Their whole premise on performing well was based around using smoke to fire from. They were directly affected as their performance changed, just as GC would have when playing higher tiers. What's the actual difference?

7 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

That's right. I fail to see how it is okay to go in one direction but people scream bloody murder in the other.

I mean honestly, the whole basis of everything here is nerfing a ship that changes its performance and thus its statistics. So, why should any other real cash ship not be held to the same "its ok to over perform within the limits of rarirty" not apply here? Even the compensation scheme was the same, dubloons for anyone unhappy with their purchase. Well, just like GC advocates wanted real cash returns, I want them to.

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As owner of Kaga, Belfast, and Kutuzov, I disagree with OP.  Kutuzov and Belfast were not directly nerfed, and are still awesome ships.  Kaga WAS nerfed, but I basically exchanged Kaga for Midway with premium camo, and I consider this a fair trade.  Also I don't see how they can give me my T7 Kaga back, so I am letting that one go.

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While I do support small changes to premium ships to maintain fair play and balance, I think the changes for GC (which I own but rarely play) were excessive.

I own the Kaga and I would have to say that anyone who purchases her as she currently exists is a damn fool, this ship just doesnt perform well at all, is one of the weaker premium CV's and is a completely unenjoyable experience when bottom tier. WG recently stated they were happy with her performance.....guess she will become a port queen for me

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

Well, I want my ships back to their performance level as that's what I apparently paid for.

38 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

There you go, end of thread.

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The Kaga can be a monster against T8 and lower ships by the way. The torpedo bombers do real work... and the HE bombs are no joke. They'll do 12k damage to an isolated stationary tier 10 BB. They can nearly one shot a stationary DD if RNGeesus is on your side.

 

NOT EASY to make it a monster, but I've done it several times. With the overlapping AA nerf, Kaga will be the best CV in the game, mark my words.

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3 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

As owner of Kaga, Belfast, and Kutuzov, I disagree with OP.  Kutuzov and Belfast were not directly nerfed, and are still awesome ships.  Kaga WAS nerfed, but I basically exchanged Kaga for Midway with premium camo, and I consider this a fair trade.  Also I don't see how they can give me my T7 Kaga back, so I am letting that one go.

A global nerf that effects the ships main stay of game play, using smoke, is quite the change and can drastically alter performance, sort of like taking a tier 5 into tier 8 battles. Did you not have to change your play style or captian build, or maybe you modules to fit into that game play? I mean, thats what GC was going to have to do but nnnnooooooooo we cant have that. Besides, this isnt about whether the ship does ok, GC over performs and these ships should be able to as well. They should have more damage and higher win rates than peers, just like GC, afterall, thats what I bought them for.

2 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

While I do support small changes to premium ships to maintain fair play and balance, I think the changes for GC (which I own but rarely play) were excessive.

I own the Kaga and I would have to say that anyone who purchases her as she currently exists is a damn fool, this ship just doesnt perform well at all, is one of the weaker premium CV's and is a completely unenjoyable experience when bottom tier. WG recently stated they were happy with her performance.....guess she will become a port queen for me

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I actually love my Kaga and wouldnt take my money back. My point is more about why is it ok for GC to over perform but not these ships.

2 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

The OP really needs to learn the difference between a few things.

SO do you (This is a sarcastic and trollish post to point out the double standards around here)

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1 minute ago, Ramsalot said:

There you go, end of thread.

Ok, so you purchase a ship thats listed unique characteristic is to fire from smoke. You buy it and do well. They decide to change smoke. Now you dont do quite as well, or maybe even bad. The ship no longer performs as it once did when you paid full cash value. What the difference between that and uptiering?

1 minute ago, HorrorRoach said:

The Kaga can be a monster against T8 and lower ships by the way. The torpedo bombers do real work... and the HE bombs are no joke. They'll do 12k damage to an isolated stationary tier 10 BB. They can nearly one shot a stationary DD if RNGeesus is on your side.

 

NOT EASY to make it a monster, but I've done it several times. With the overlapping AA nerf, Kaga will be the best CV in the game, mark my words.

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Yes it can, its honestly my favorite CV. I dont acutally want my money back for it

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