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Stauffenberg44

The Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron - Voyage of the Damned

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That this fleet of pre-dreadnoughts made it around Cape of Good Hope on their 18,000 mile journey from the Baltic to the Sea of Japan in 1904-05 is nothing short of epic, not to mention tragic given their fate. A fine documentary on this for those interested:

 

 

I'm waiting for the Borodino to finally make it into WoWs in particular. Have a look on my notes on her in my pre-dreadnought thread and vote if you haven't already:

 

Edited by Stauffenberg44
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The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this. Might had been interesting if the Home Fleet decided to shoot them in retaliation.

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I remember when Jingles told this story on a Mingles with Jingles episode long ago. I know own the book thanks to that.

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"The fleet had gone from being a mad collection of questionable warships, to a floating diplomatic disaster, to a set of mobile floating air bombs, and was now taking a turn at being the world's largest seaborne zoo."

I especially liked Adm. Rozhestvensky's nicknames for boats and captains he detested, and his hurling binoculars over the side almost daily (his crew had brought a crate of 50 of them knowing this passion of his). Tragicomic given their fate at Tsushima.

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24 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this. Might had been interesting if the Home Fleet decided to shoot them in retaliation.

Even if the Tsar had decided against sending the Baltic fleet to the Pacific, he would've been criticized for doing nothing anyway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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38 minutes ago, Wolcott said:

Even if the Tsar had decided against sending the Baltic fleet to the Pacific, he would've been criticized for doing nothing anyway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Actually, it was the Baltic Fleet that ended up being dammed. Kamchatka was crewed so incompetently, that one wonders if it was deliberate or not.

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I love these naval battle videos but this narrator and especially this five min guide to battleships serious is so hard to watch I can't listen to him . Very interesting but this is the second and last one of this serious I can watch mostly due to the narrator who takes 10 mins to get to the point . They could have made this video in 20 mins if he just talked a little faster . I mean is it me or does he just make you want to lie down and take a nap ?

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1 hour ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this. Might had been interesting if the Home Fleet decided to shoot them in retaliation.

Actually, by the time the Russian fleet arrived in the Pacific, they had become extremely adept at coaling, both in port and at sea, along with keeping their ships going.  What they lacked however were realistic battle drills and gunnery exercises.  So, they were steaming and 'sailing' proficient but combat unready.

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thanks for this Stauf, I have enjoyed watching it. A real life tragi-comedy.

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20 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

thanks for this Stauf, I have enjoyed watching it. A real life tragi-comedy.

yw and as for the other comment about the narrator, I can understand that but he really couldn't resist drawing out the black humour of all the mishaps which is quite understandable. As he also noted at the outset there is a paucity of images to go along with the story so he added all the vivid story-telling details.

I have a book on this topic: The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Journey to the Battle of Tsushima by Constantine Pleshakov (Basic Books, 2003) and it is more a straight-up account; I enjoyed getting this tragicomic other side to the story.

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49 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

yw and as for the other comment about the narrator, I can understand that but he really couldn't resist drawing out the black humour of all the mishaps which is quite understandable. As he also noted at the outset there is a paucity of images to go along with the story so he added all the vivid story-telling details.

I have a book on this topic: The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Journey to the Battle of Tsushima by Constantine Pleshakov (Basic Books, 2003) and it is more a straight-up account; I enjoyed getting this tragicomic other side to the story.

the youtube is meant to be entertainment, I took it as such. Nevertheless, i'd have to be blind and deaf to not draw parallels with contemporary Russian fleets that transit the North Sea and Channel, with their tugboat escorts. Fortunately, fishing boats no longer need to worry about them, while the modern Japanese navy, no longer employs torpedo boats. 

As for the python, the crocodile, the parrot, the rats and the sharks, perfect material for a comic book.

I will look up that book you suggest, maybe buy it (3.99 on Amazon in ebook format), thanks again for the tip.

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3 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this.

When the reasons for being in charge of a vast and diverse empire are decided by heredity, these things tend to happen.

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2 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

When the reasons for being in charge of a vast and diverse empire are decided by heredity, these things tend to happen.

Tell that to the British. Wait, the Windsors aren't really in charge, are they. And "vast and diverse empire"... not.

So nm. ;)

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7 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this. Might had been interesting if the Home Fleet decided to shoot them in retaliation.

The Tsar ordered the Baltic Fleet out because the closer Black Sea Fleet wasn't allowed to pass through the Dardanelles but in the end it was a death sentence for the men. Though you have to wonder why no one in the fleet sank that repair ship and said she struck an iceberg

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4 hours ago, LoveBote said:

the youtube is meant to be entertainment, I took it as such.

I have to come to the defense of Drachinifel with his YouTubes as they are not meant to be simply entertainment. He went over the top rather with this topic, and I can't blame him, but if you are interested check out his YouTube on the Nelson which I found most informative:

 

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14 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The sad state of training and incompetence boggled the mind. One wonders what the Czar was smoking when he ordered this. Might had been interesting if the Home Fleet decided to shoot them in retaliation.

The assassination attempt on Nicholas II of Russia in Japan probably had something to do with clouding his judgement.  People tend to take assassinations personally.  

We can only speculate how history might have gone a different way the Ōtsu incident never happened.  The Czar was on his way to becoming a weeb given he had gotten a Japanese dragon tattoo during the trip.

new-nicholas-II-tattoo-758x521.jpg

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13 hours ago, Royeaux said:

The assassination attempt on Nicholas II of Russia in Japan probably had something to do with clouding his judgement.  People tend to take assassinations personally.  

We can only speculate how history might have gone a different way the Ōtsu incident never happened.  The Czar was on his way to becoming a weeb given he had gotten a Japanese dragon tattoo during the trip.

Nicholas would have probably loved the peaceful Japan today. If only it was already pacifist a century ago, the Russo-Japanese War may not have happened at all.

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On 3/15/2019 at 1:29 AM, Royeaux said:

The assassination attempt on Nicholas II of Russia in Japan probably had something to do with clouding his judgement.  People tend to take assassinations personally.  

We can only speculate how history might have gone a different way the Ōtsu incident never happened.  The Czar was on his way to becoming a weeb given he had gotten a Japanese dragon tattoo during the trip.

new-nicholas-II-tattoo-758x521.jpg

The cause of the war had more to do with Russia and Japan clashing over influence in Manchuria, Russia wanted a warm water port (Port Arthur) for it's fleet to operate from and Japan wanted to extend it's sphere of influence, by the time Togo launched his Pearl Harbor Version 1 against the Russian Fleet at Port Arthur war was pretty much inevitable. Factor in the belief that Russia would quickly defeat Japan solely on the basis that Russia was a European Power and combine that with Nicholas being an absolute autocrat who was so deeply influenced by his wife and her religious fanaticism and obsession with mysticism, that he couldn't see that he'd pushed his nation to the breaking point, and that Russia lost it's best Admiral early in the war, and many officers were promoted based on political connections and loyalty to the regime more then merit while the sailors came from the peasant and working classes and you have the makings of a disaster  

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15 minutes ago, snakes3425 said:

The cause of the war had more to do with Russia and Japan clashing over influence in Manchuria, Russia wanted a warm water port (Port Arthur) for it's fleet to operate from and Japan wanted to extend it's sphere of influence, by the time Togo launched his Pearl Harbor Version 1 against the Russian Fleet at Port Arthur war was pretty much inevitable. Factor in the belief that Russia would quickly defeat Japan solely on the basis that Russia was a European Power and combine that with Nicholas being an absolute autocrat who was so deeply influenced by his wife and her religious fanaticism and obsession with mysticism, that he couldn't see that he'd pushed his nation to the breaking point, and that Russia lost it's best Admiral early in the war, and many officers were promoted based on political connections and loyalty to the regime more then merit while the sailors came from the peasant and working classes and you have the makings of a disaster  

As I understand it, Japan was fine with Russia taking Port Arthur by dividing spheres of influences into Russia getting Manchuria and Japan getting Korea. "Seeing Russia as a rival, Japan offered to recognize Russian dominance in Manchuria in exchange for recognition of Korea as being within the Japanese sphere of influence. Russia refused and demanded Korea north of the 39th parallel to be a neutral buffer zone between Russia and Japan. The Japanese government perceived a Russian threat to its plans for expansion into Asia and chose to go to war. " - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War

Another influencer was that Kaiser Wilhelm was pushing for Russia to just annex as much as possible. "A recurring theme of Wilhelm's letters to Nicholas was that "Holy Russia" had been "chosen" by God to save the "entire white race" from the "Yellow Peril", and that Russia was "entitled" to annex all of Korea, Manchuria, and northern China up to Beijing." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War#Pre-war_negotiations

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