Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Desmios

Does the new midway suck, or do I

34 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
567 posts
2,921 battles

Hello all,

   I came back to play the CV re-work, my favorite class.  I am sucking, hard.  I used to have 100k - 200k dmg games before the change, now I average 20 - 45k, even after several days of adjustment.

   The torps seem to be trash and only controlling 1 squad at a time severely limits strategical options.  I most help my team by spotting DDs, thats how little damage this CV does.

  What am I missing?

Edited by Desmios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,585
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,971 posts
17 minutes ago, Desmios said:

Hello all,

   I came back to play the CV re-work, my favorite class.  I am sucking, hard.  I used to have 100k - 200k dmg games before the change, now I average 20 - 60k, even after several days of adjustment.

   The torps seem to be trash and only controlling 1 squad at a time severely limits strategical options.

  What am I missing?

CVs were a bit OP before.  Higher tier CVs could often decide who lived and died, at will, with cross dropped torps etc. There wasn't much the surface ship could do about it.  It wasn't healthy for the game and it needed to be fixed.  The RTS style also didn't fit in very well with the rest of the game.

WG completely changed the way CVs play in an attempt to bring them into balance.  Continue to practice and your numbers are likely to improve some. They are still in the process of adjusting things, so expect continued changes for a while, which may or may not help you to do more damage. 

This topic is very controversial, so expect many replies that vary in opinion about it.  For the record, this reply is from an avid CV player.
 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,302 posts
10,644 battles

Everything does trash damage except the bombs. Midway DBs are the only reason why it's good. (Tiny tims are okay)

The main reason for low CV damage IMO is a poor understanding of rework AA. It's understandable why you're sucking if you just came into the rework from the old RTS without having played on the PTS servers. I recommend watching some of Giashu's streams to learn how he manages AA, as well as the basic use of consumables, engine boost, ...etc.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[PQUOD]
[PQUOD]
Members
3,593 posts
12,667 battles
8 minutes ago, Desmios said:

Hello all,

   I came back to play the CV re-work, my favorite class.  I am sucking, hard.  I used to have 100k - 200k dmg games before the change, now I average 20 - 60k, even after several days of adjustment.

   The torps seem to be trash and only controlling 1 squad at a time severely limits strategical options.

  What am I missing?

I didnt bring in 200K damage games before 8.0 CV rework but had better games than I do now. It is the reworked CV meta. There are some people (smaller percentage than before) who still reap unicum damage but as a whole CV's don't produce the numbers they used to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,160
[WORX]
Members
7,975 posts
16,699 battles

your missing patch notes 0.8.0.1-  to present patch.

Your CV's current job is a

  • spotter (always)
  • DD killer specialist

Your CV has

  • Nerfed Flood DMG
  • Nerf flood chance per torp hit

I can tell right off the bat regardless of tier/CV, DD DMG will makee up %90-%95 of your total DMG. 

This is why I feel dirty picking on the smallest boat in the fleet as a CV driver.

Also, the job/role of DD killer is already taken by cruisers... Until, CVs have role/job in battle changed with balance in mind, I am not interested in the current CV product. 

My hats off to current CV cpts for settling for a reduced in game role and reduced DMG potential (only able to hit DDs consistently). This is not the evolution I would've hoped for a once proud/over played class.

Edited by Navalpride33
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
567 posts
2,921 battles
1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

your missing patch notes 0.8.0.1-  to present patch.

Your CV's current job is a

  • spotter (always)
  • DD killer specialist

Your CV has

  • Nerfed Flood DMG
  • Nerf flood chance per orp hit

I can tell right off the bat regardless of tier/CV, DD DMG will makee up %90-%95 of your total DMG. 

This is why I feel dirty picking on the smallest boat in the fleet as a CV driver.

Also, the job/role of DD killer is already taken by cruisers... Until, CVs have role/job in battle changed with balance in mind, I am not interested in the current CV product. 

My hats off to current CV cpts for settling for a reduced in game role and reduced DMG potential (only able to hit DDs consistently). This is not the evolution I would've hoped for a once proud/over played class.

Indeed.  I did not spent hundreds of hours grinding credits and Xp to spot destroyers.  To nerf CVs to such a role is sad.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,294
[PSP]
[PSP]
Members
11,024 posts

Midway (<30.01.2019)  10 Aircraft Carrier U.S.A. 308 275 45.7 % 1.25 91 453 1 736 24.81

Midway  10 Aircraft Carrier U.S.A. 84 284 48.23 % 0.83 74 186 1 861 6.46

Warship Tier Type Nation Battles Win rate Avg. frags Avg. damage Avg. experience Avg. planes destroyed

Note that the win rate for the new Midway is closer to 50%, which indicates to me that it's less bipolar now. That is, more are doing closer to average in it rather than either very well or very poorly.

Ship skills are way down because under the new meta you will not be doing any "alpha strikes." CVs now play a war of attrition. Very rarely will you sink a full health ship of any type.

Damage is way down too. If you can consistently do 75 k damage then you are doing about average. XP is up slightly though, probably because more Midway players now fall in the middle of the pack, neither at the top but neither at the bottom.

Plane kills are way down too with no more strafing.

 

Edited by Snargfargle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
849
[-K-]
[-K-]
Members
1,209 posts
16,540 battles

Use your DBs. Rockets and torps are merely for scouting and passing the time between DBs.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
870
[A-D]
Beta Testers, Alpha Tester
2,638 posts
38 minutes ago, Desmios said:

Hello all,

   I came back to play the CV re-work, my favorite class.  I am sucking, hard.  I used to have 100k - 200k dmg games before the change, now I average 20 - 45k, even after several days of adjustment.

   The torps seem to be trash and only controlling 1 squad at a time severely limits strategical options.  I most help my team by spotting DDs, thats how little damage this CV does.

  What am I missing?

In terms of overall stats midway is rather balanced, having second best damage among T10 CVs and BBs and a steady 50.5% winrate. Of course some high profile unicums like Gaishu manage 200k+ per game, but even as a whole she is not underpowered at the moment. So, it seems like you haven't acclimated to the changes yet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,745
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
24,149 posts
13,310 battles

CV's are completely different than the old CV's. I suggest that you go back to the beginning and play each tier and as you get comfortable with that tier move up. What you need to relearn is when to attack and when not to.

3 minutes ago, grumpymunky said:

Use your DBs. Rockets and torps are merely for scouting and passing the time between DBs.

Rockets are still good but they can be tricky to learn to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
567 posts
2,921 battles

So the answer seems to be both I and the midway suck.  Thank you all for your help!  Happy to hear I am not alone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[PQUOD]
[PQUOD]
Members
3,593 posts
12,667 battles

I would love to see some of the load out options from the old RTS style offered in the new meta.

RTS option of double one type of squadron while foregoing another

2 (non existent now) fighter squads and one DB with no torpedo squadrons

or

two DB and one torpedo, with no fighter squadrons 

 

8.0 with updates two rocket attack and one DB no torpedo

or 

two DB one torpedo and no rocket attack squadrons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,294
[PSP]
[PSP]
Members
11,024 posts
4 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I would love to see some of the load out options from the old RTS style offered in the new meta.

I agree. You have to choose what planes/ordinance to buff with modules while knowing that 2/3s of the time you will be using other planes/ordinance types.

Edited by Snargfargle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,585
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,971 posts
1 hour ago, Desmios said:

So the answer seems to be both I and the midway suck.  Thank you all for your help!  Happy to hear I am not alone

As I alluded to in my post, I disagree.  If you go watch some of the suggested players that some the posts have talked about, the new CVs, or at least some of them,  are in fact capable of putting up some big numbers.  While I also do not possess the needed skill, there are players that prove that "it can be done".

Are those players every player?  Of course not, that is why we watch them.  They are the exception. They show that there is room to eek out some more damage from the ship for the average player though. 

It is easy to point at the tool and blame the tool.....until someone comes along and wipes the floor with that same exact tool.  That said, I think some changes are likely to come along, to make success a little more attainable for the average player.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
567 posts
2,921 battles
10 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

As I alluded to in my post, I disagree.  If you go watch some of the suggested players that some the posts have talked about, the new CVs, or at least some of them,  are in fact capable of putting up some big numbers.  While I also do not possess the needed skill, there are players that prove that "it can be done".

Are those players every player?  Of course not, that is why we watch them.  They are the exception. They show that there is room to eek out some more damage from the ship for the average player though. 

It is easy to point at the tool and blame the tool.....until someone comes along and wipes the floor with that same exact tool.  That said, I think some changes are likely to come along, to make success a little more attainable for the average player.

That doesn't make much sense that.  Prior to the patch, I was one of the players you alluded to.  Post patch, I am no longer.  My skill has not changed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,585
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,971 posts
26 minutes ago, Desmios said:

That doesn't make much sense that.  Prior to the patch, I was one of the players you alluded to.  Post patch, I am no longer.  My skill has not changed. 

Correct, but the play style has completely changed.  Your old skill set, however honed it might have been, is no longer valid.  It is null and void, you need to work on a new skill set.

Keep in mind, I am certainly not fantastic myself.  If I put in good work (and CVs are work now...much more than they were before and honestly more than most surface ships), I come in middle of the pack consistently.  I have trouble coming in first or second with any consistency though.  Can I overcome that with practice?  It's still too early to tell for me and things are still changing, almost every few days there is a new patch. I would like to think so though.

What we do know, by watching a few of the people who are exceptional at it, is that I can be done with the tools available.  The question becomes, can the average player be successful enough without most of them becoming "OP" (again)?  I think that is what WG's constant changes are still trying to achieve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,673 posts
10,218 battles

Find isolated or semi isolated target and farm them.  Wait until later in the game before yoloing into a group of ships.  If there is nothing you can attack without wasting the entire squad, just scout and wait for an opening.   Pretty much what i did in my lexi.  Tier 10 CVs get speed and health that gives them more leeway in what they can get away with. 

 

Quite often i would only go for a single attack with my squad before i flew back out of the Aa and recalled.  You just dont have the health for another pass, or the damage isn't worth losing the rest of the squad over.  If played well, you will have a decent reserve of planes in the mid to late game that you can be a bit more reckless with to make the game winning plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
416
[MPIRE]
Beta Testers
1,785 posts
9,850 battles
8 minutes ago, Desmios said:

That doesn't make much sense that.  Prior to the patch, I was one of the players you alluded to.  Post patch, I am no longer.  My skill has not changed. 

Your skill is unchanged, but the tool is completely different.  The new CVs are a completely different beast, even the best players from before had to start from 0 with all the potatoes.  Everything, from the ships to the AA is different.  It's essentially a new class.  I'd be more surprising than not if your old skill carried over somehow.

Currently CV play isn't very forgiving, especially high tiers.  That being said it's very possible to do well with them.  Midway in particular is pretty versatile.  If you're struggling with her it's not because you're bad, but simply not used to the intricacies of the new mechanics.  If you were good before though, I have no doubt you'll start hitting the same highs you used to with a little practice!  

EDIT:  To add on a bit, Midway has extremely strong DBs.  Everyone who says most of your damage will come from farming DDs is blowing things out of proportion.  You have the tools to kill them, but you also have the tools to kill everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
284 posts
4,664 battles
1 hour ago, Desmios said:

Hello all,

   I came back to play the CV re-work, my favorite class.  I am sucking, hard.  I used to have 100k - 200k dmg games before the change, now I average 20 - 45k, even after several days of adjustment.

   The torps seem to be trash and only controlling 1 squad at a time severely limits strategical options.  I most help my team by spotting DDs, thats how little damage this CV does.

  What am I missing?

If you want unicum damage, go after isolated bb's with bombs and torps. Dont worry much about dd's . Go after em when your restocking planes or at the very start when you send your attack planes out to scout quickly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
703
[BRONY]
[BRONY]
Beta Testers
1,089 posts
18,270 battles

Midway is very good and extremely versatile. If you are not using them, I highly recommend switching to the Tiny Tim rockets - use them to scout out enemy spawns at the beginning of the match and set an initial fire on a target. The TBs fly underneath flak during their attack run and are very tanky due to the heal - use them to get repeated strikes on one target and possibly a perma flood. The DBs require more finesse to get attacks with off as you can't really abuse attack runs to get around flak, but they will hit any ship (except T10 CV) extremely hard. In general, your target prioritization should go: BB > CA > DD > CV. Once you get the hang of the DBs you can delete destroyers pretty easily, but your job is mostly to erase battleships from the match.

It takes some time to get used to the new mechanics, especially dodging AA and how to set up attack runs. Give it a chance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,294
[PSP]
[PSP]
Members
11,024 posts
2 minutes ago, Gaishu_Isshoku said:

I highly recommend switching to the Tiny Tim rockets - use them to scout out enemy spawns at the beginning of the match and set an initial fire on a target.

The TBs fly underneath flak during their attack run and are very tanky due to the heal

The DBs require more finesse but they will hit any ship (except T10 CV) extremely hard.

Good info, I never realized that Torpedo Bombers flew under flack during the attack run, and I've played over hundred games in the new CVs. :Smile_facepalm:

I did know about the heal but it's good to remind people as I never seem to remember to use it.

I concur about the Tiny Tims as they are more like CA artillery than CL artillery and thus do considerably more damage per strike. Aiming is hard at first but soon you will get the hang of it.

You are right too about Dive Bombers and tier 10 CVs. The Midway's deck has 87 mm armor plate; the Hakuryu has 95 mm deck armor. The Midway's dive bombs only penetrate 67 mm of armor and are useless against tier X CVs for anything but starting a fire, if you can even get close enough to drop them.

With the automatically-called fighters, a manually-called fighter drop from a squadron, and the naturally strong AA, tier X CVs are nearly invulnerable to air attack. If you must attack them, however, use Torpedo Bombers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
126 posts
14,730 battles

They aren't immune during the attack run, but the "duck" as they begin the run means you avoid the AI flak that thought you were flying straight.

Even nerfed the torps do decent damage if you can land a bunch of them. Parked/backing up Yamatos, Izumos are good targets. GK because it's so long. Even Monty or Iowa/Missouri if you can use islands for cover during the attack run (or if you are lacking better targets and are willing to lose all your planes). But as others have mentioned, the dive bombers are its bread and butter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,585
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,971 posts

OP I am not presenting this game as anything special.  I had not played my midway in a while and you got me to thinking about it so I fired it up and played an unwarmed up game. 

My performance results are "meh" at best. My team....did not do so well and I certainly didn't do anything noteworthy. 

I wanted to share it though for some of those exact reasons, because it is nothing special and I am not a top tier player.  The average guy can reach 100K (which again, is not anything special) in a run of the mill game.

 

shot-19.03.14_00.58.26-0859.jpg

shot-19.03.14_00.58.39-0662.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[PQUOD]
[PQUOD]
Members
3,593 posts
12,667 battles
5 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I agree. You have to choose what planes/ordinance to buff with modules while knowing that 2/3s of the time you will be using other planes/ordinance types.

With the Midway it would be 2DB 1rocket attack? Or 3B?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×