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Shenanigans_Abound

The real truth about your blowout losses

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8 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

And, even if you did have sufficient numbers of good players, MM only aligns ships  and that doesn't infer skill matching at all........  I've seen matches with the 55%+ players doing stupid things to benefit themselves so that "they win".....  And, complete noobs driving advanced ships.....    Admiral, I suspect that this will remain an arcade game; where money, drives the quality; and. it seems that arcade players out number the WW2-esk historic players several to one..... 

I try to be better each and every game; and, have moved into COOP just about full time till the "transition to a pure arcade game" completes itself....  Then, maybe, we will have another good discussion about this topic.

I face the challenge in WOT Blitz, but innthat game I found interesting ways to combat the issue. For example ne thing my crew skills are pretty much all maxed out there, which in WOWs you can only do 19 point captains but still helps.

Other things I do is make lists of tanks or ships, on one list have the ones that you feel like you can carry the world in if needed and use those when things get bad on certain days. Other list of vehicles you may be grinding or are mainly good at team support when team can support you and only use those when having better days.

Now granted there are differences between tanks and ships such as inntanks my over all hit ratio is above 90% even when sniping across the map, which allows me to carry teams, well unless they all try to get into my sniper spots lol which is thankfully not very often. In Warships it’s often torpedo boat DDs that I use to stealthily cut through enemy ships. Or Bismarck with full secondary build which is like a cruiser and BB traveling together only it’s 1 ship. Granted such ships have their draw backs, but they are ones I know hope to cope with.

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20 minutes ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

Lol. I have the same issue with her. The first time I played a ship with her on it it scared me because the volume was up to loud and I thought someone was playing something in the background... nope... just my dumb- self forgetting about captains. 😂 always cracks me up now every time I play her. Her reactions to things like torps and being spotted are hilarious. 

I have to find a japanese guy/gal to translate. Who knows, she may be asking me for a date and I may miss my chance.

She sure puts a smile on my face every time I fire a shot.

Honi soit qui mal y pense...

 

 

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2 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

And? 

Going to the flank in a Fuso is usually a terrible idea, yet here you are thinking that it's a good one.  This is exactly the mindset that makes me hate BB drivers.

Judging by this, I'm guessing you're not a "BB Driver" yourself. I often go on flanks with my fuso, and considering my w/r with her is 64% and also have a respectable damage average for that ship, I can conclude that in my case, going on flanks in the fuso is in fact not a bad idea. Not in my case anyway.

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47 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Agree on the cutting... but I would suggest that non competitive players may spend a lot more money on this game than you think, may even spend more than competitive players.  I know some that buy every premium, just to have every ship in the game, they are your historical crowd...and a crowd that WG seems to care about a decent amount.

Exactly why I said Wargaming can’t afford to cut the Non Competitive players because you are right about them often spending huge sums of money to get what they may not be able to earn. Which is why I said we would need large number of competitive players for a company to even consider excluding non skilled players.

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2 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Exactly why I said Wargaming can’t afford to cut the Non Competitive players because you are right about them often spending huge sums of money to get what they may not be able to earn. Which is why I said we would need large number of competitive players for a company to even consider excluding non skilled players.

I have a feeling that WG could care less if you are competitive or not as long as your check clears.

Besides, lets say you eliminate right now everyone with a W/R <50% and then reset the stats. Guess what, you will have again players with a W/R <50%. After all, non skilled is a relative value, not an absolute one.

 

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3 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

Exactly.  There's also the case that people who are being useless, get shot at less and therefore live longer.  Surviving in and of itself is not indicative of of good play.  Like that battleship sniping from the 10 line while the enemy controls 3 cap points, or goes to hang out at the no BB signs on North.  Yeah, you're still alive, but you were useless.  Just because you are alive doesn't mean you played well.  Conversely, the guy who died trying to make a play to cover for your useless stern didn't necessarily play poorly.

This all day every day. ^^

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Communication has nothing to do with routs.  Look at King of the Sea tournament.  There you arguably have some of the best communication possible but there are still one sided matches.

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although this  statement isnt always true  , but something to gauge yourself by....if you do not cause more damage to the enemy than your ships hp then you are useless .... dont be and stop being useless.. 1 exception to this is to bull your way into a cap and through it  to chase the enemy out so  the less experienced players on your team come out from hiding and cap.. but most of the time you will be deleted after going thru..there are other ways  also..you can be eliminated early but turn the tables in your teams favor....so in short dont get eliminated for stupid and useless reason ...BE USEFULL NOT USELESS...

that is all

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3 hours ago, GoaJim said:

I wish there were a way to see my average damage in wins as opposed to average damage in losses. Maybe there is and I don't know about it. I'm under the impression that the amount of damage I do in a DD, has little to do with whether or not I win. And that means I'm almost totally at the mercy of my team to do the damage.

Not sure where you get that impression. The team with the early DD advantage usually wins the game. A well-played DD can shut down an entire flank and make a push impossible.

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Is nobody going to tell the OP how to spell "losses" :)

it's a communication thing 

Edited by Commander_367

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40 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

This is the nth time this thread has occurred somewhere on the internet and for the nth time, when the best players still have blowout losses that they can't do anything about, that means you can blame MM too.

Unless the entire team is occupied by the best  players in the game your argument holds no logic. Plus it contradicts itself. If all the best players are put on one team then matchmaking failed but if they lose to a blowout then matchmaking failed. 😂 sounds to me like you just want to complain. 

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4 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Communication has nothing to do with routs.  Look at King of the Sea tournament.  There you arguably have some of the best communication possible but there are still one sided matches.

I wouldn't say "nothing" but it only one factor. Poor communication and misinformation definitely has cause routs in armies throughout history.

For instance:

:cap_old:  I'm exhausted, I'm going to sit down for a second.

:cap_cool: Hey, where is the general?

:Smile_unsure: I think I saw him fall.

:cap_wander_2:The general is dead? Who is in command?

:fish_panic: Run! The general and all the officers are dead!

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What do you consider a blow out? When you get a 12-nill or 11-nill game that is over in 10 minutes that is MM 100%. if you end the game with 6 on the winning team I am more inclined to agree with you.

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2 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I wouldn't say "nothing" but it only one factor. Poor communication and misinformation definitely has cause routs in armies throughout history.

For instance:

:cap_old:  I'm exhausted, I'm going to sit down for a second.

:cap_cool: Hey, where is the general?

:Smile_unsure: I think I saw him fall.

:cap_wander_2:The general is dead? Who is in command?

:fish_panic: Run! The general and all the officers are dead!

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it would take the initial loss of 3 or more players to cause a rapid team collapse across the board … 

This would have to be a tactical blunder where a group splits off from the main body and commits too early without backup or an exit plan

How this happens, I leave to anyone's imagination :)

 

There must be 50 ways to lose … Your TEAM!

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3 hours ago, enderland07 said:

This is why divs of bad players are so harmful.

Three BBs going up the 10 line basically is the same as starting down 3 ships.

The main reason a division of bad players is so harmful is they are usually offset by a division of very good players.

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1 minute ago, Commander_367 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it would take the initial loss of 3 or more players to cause a rapid team collapse across the board … 

Exactly. I watched a video just a few minutes ago where Flambass' team lost two DDs in the first minute of the game. If he hadn't been there with his division mate it would have been a rout as the team would have collapsed on that side. His team eventually lost as it was always down by a cap and a couple of ships but one good player standing can also prevent a rout, just as one hero standing on the battlefield can (well, a classical battlefield, that is, now some private would just shoot the hero from 500 meters away and that would be that.)

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3 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Exactly. I watched a video just a few minutes ago where Flambass' team lost two DDs in the first minute of the game. If he hadn't been there with his division mate it would have been a rout as the team would have collapsed on that side. His team eventually lost as it was always down by a cap and a couple of ships but one good player standing can also prevent a rout, just as one hero standing on the battlefield can (well, a classical battlefield, that is, now some private would just shoot the hero from 500 meters away and that would be that.)

I don't want to blame DDs here, for obvious reasons :)

Even though DDs are front line, they are not always first detected and are usually better at evasion … 

Let's say a DD a cruiser and a BB met in a bar … and they all got WASTED :)

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7 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

The main reason a division of bad players is so harmful is they are usually offset by a division of very good players.

Not really.

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5 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

I posted this as a reply to someone a few minutes ago but since it’s going to get buried I wanted to make sure more people could see it. 

You all assume the blowouts are because of bad MM instead of looking at either your play or how your team mates played instead you try to find a reason to justify the blowout for anything but bad team play (I know as well as anyone the MM isn’t perfect but it succeeds 99 percent of the time) Now before the hate train starts on this keep in mind, some people know it’s a team based game that requires communication but a lot of people don’t, if the community would just take some time away from being toxic to bad players or misunderstanding players and help them understand what they might need to do differently in the future maybe this problem will slowly fix itself. The in game chat feature is supposed to be used for in game communication of battle plans but sadly 95 percent of the time it’s used for name calling and stat shaming( I’m just as guilty of it too in moments of extreme frustration)  sometimes players forgot an odd quirk of in game chat allows you to talk when you’re dead, call out enemy ships etc.. sometimes people get tunnel vision and don’t watch the map but you can if you’re dead, People claim they want better teams but don’t take the few minutes after they’re dead to help out that player who may not know what they’re doing wrong or what they did wrong. But I’m sure the general response to this will be “I never die my team does” like you’ve never been killed in a game before and if that’s your first thought then that’s part of the problem as well. People are so concerned with Kdr and staying alive like there is some sort of benefit... there isn’t. An afk yammy for entire game will have the same resupply charge as a yammy that did 250k but died, you living accomplishes nothing. I personally have no problem dying for the benefit of a win or contesting if it gets towards the ultimate goal of a victory but a lot of people do and that’s a problem in and of itself. 

 

If you look at people's stats you can usually predict the team that will win. The number of games that are a toss up are shockingly few, almost as if the matchmaker stacks the teams on purpose. Divisions of course make it worse. I full support having Divisions but they increase the need for skill based matchmaking.

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11 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

If you look at people's stats you can usually predict the team that will win. The number of games that are a toss up are shockingly few, almost as if the matchmaker stacks the teams on purpose. Divisions of course make it worse. I full support having Divisions but they increase the need for skill based matchmaking.

If that were true, sports betting and stock picking would be easy … 

Unfortunately, they're not :)

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54 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Communication has nothing to do with routs.  Look at King of the Sea tournament.  There you arguably have some of the best communication possible but there are still one sided matches.

Yeah and same things can happen in highly skilled chess tournaments where Every piece on your “ team” is directly under your control and you while you can end up with even draws, or slight wins, you can also have total blow out in chess as well. And  those blowouts are with you being in sole control of your side as I said, you don’t get better communication or potential coordination than that.

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5 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

If you team loses one ship quickly at start, usually a DD, you may get by.  Lose 2 in the first two or three minutes through poor decisions and you've lost 1/6 of your team and that can be a tough row to hoe.

support 

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4 hours ago, GoaJim said:

I wish there were a way to see my average damage in wins as opposed to average damage in losses. Maybe there is and I don't know about it. I'm under the impression that the amount of damage I do in a DD, has little to do with whether or not I win. And that means I'm almost totally at the mercy of my team to do the damage.

To be honest I’d bet that my average damage is higher when we lose the match. It means my team left me more reds to shoot at. 

On the other hand I’ve found my potential damage number correlates pretty well with a win or a loss. I don’t play a lot of stealth-centric boats, so high PD generally says that I played close enough to contribute and piss off the enemy, and smart enough to avoid dying fast. Khabarovsk obviously wants a higher PD# than, say, a Kagero. 

At T8 I generally win if I can get a PD over a million; at T10 it’s more like 1.5-2 million. 

Edited by Eugenie_101
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