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Graf Zeppelin and Soviet battleships changes

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The total damage output of Graf Zeppelin is still very high. To keep the special features of GZ's attack planes and dive bombers and balance the total amount of damage this CV can inflict, the damage of torpedoes is lowered from 5500 to 4533. This change will be live at 14:00 UTC on 13.03.19

It's not planned to make further changes to the parameters of Graf Zeppelin, Saipan, Kaga and Enterprise. We consider their balancing finished. We also would like to remind you that you can exchange your CVs in the Inventory section before the time to do this expires with 0.8.2.

  • Accuracy settings are changed for Lenin and all researchable tier III - X soviet battleships;
  • Damage Control Party duration is lowered to 10 seconds for for Lenin and all researchable soviet battleships.

The accuracy settings for the Soviet battleships were very "unnatural" and the change of the spread at long range increases sharply. Also such settings gave too large of an accuracy bonus at distances of mid to close range fights. Therefore, the values of the vertical and horizontal spread were adjusted so that accuracy depending on the distance changes more smoothly. This will slightly reduce the accuracy on the range up to 12 km.

The Soviet battleships were too effective in "tanking" cruisers' damage thanks to their good armor, high HP pool and the special settings of the Damage Control Party. Therefore, to balance the interaction of the Soviet BBs and cruisers, but keep other traits intact, the duration of the DCP is reduced. This will increase the total damage Soviet BBs receive from fires.

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very funny.

(considering the small number of GZ battles played on the Live server)

sad, that most of the live server battles on NA, have been played by only a half dozen players @1000+/ (as of this edit)  (others have stopped playing Graf Zep since 0.8.0.1.)

even funnier, when the dmg reduction of torpedo belts is taken into account.

All potential buyers of Graf Zeppelin take note, she has been nerfed into oblivion, with the lowest torpedo alpha dmg of her tier, the lowest DOT flood chance of her tier.

On 3/13/2019 at 2:00 PM, shonai_ said:

We also would like to remind you that you can exchange your CVs in the Inventory section before the time to do this expires with 0.8.2.

Why should I make myself homeless just because you decide you were too generous with the roofing tiles?

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You need more battles:Smile_honoring:jk

 With all the tweakings every patch someday will have a fine tuned machine

Edited by silverdahc
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Good morning @shonai_ and welcome as it appears you are new and don't even have a profile pic yet. 

So does this mean there is a hotfix today? Would that be 8.1.2? 

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4 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

very funny.

(considering the small number of GZ battles played on the Live server)

sad, that most of the live server battles on NA, have been played by myself @200+/ (others have stopped playing Graf Zep since 0.8.0.1.)

even funnier, when the dmg reduction of torpedo belts is taken into account.

Do you blame people for not playing her. I played two battles in her, found her performance to be frustrating (was after the first nerf), and two nerfs later I see no reason to play her ever again. 

I guess if WG was hoping to make players unwilling to play GZ, they are on a damn good road. But I won‘t do them the favor to exchange her for doubloons.

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8 minutes ago, shonai_ said:

The total damage output of Graf Zeppelin is still very high. To keep the special features of GZ's attack planes and dive bombers and balance the total amount of damage this CV can inflict, the damage of torpedoes is lowered from 5500 to 4533. This change will be live at 14:00 UTC on 13.03.19

It's not planned to make further changes to the parameters of Graf Zeppelin, Saipan, Kaga and Enterprise. We consider their balancing finished. We also would like to remind you that you can exchange your CVs in the Inventory section before the time to do this expires with 0.8.2.

  • Accuracy settings are changed for Lenin and all researchable tier III - X soviet battleships;
  • Damage Control Party duration is lowered to 10 seconds for for Lenin and all researchable soviet battleships.

The accuracy settings for the Soviet battleships were very "unnatural" and the change of the spread at long range increases sharply. Also such settings gave too large of an accuracy bonus at distances of mid to close range fights. Therefore, the values of the vertical and horizontal spread were adjusted so that accuracy depending on the distance changes more smoothly. This will slightly reduce the accuracy on the range up to 12 km.

The Soviet battleships were too effective in "tanking" cruisers' damage thanks to their good armor, high HP pool and the special settings of the Damage Control Party. Therefore, to balance the interaction of the Soviet BBs and cruisers, but keep other traits intact, the duration of the DCP is reduced. This will increase the total damage Soviet BBs receive from fires.

@shonai_ thanks for the update - butt I have a question perhaps you can answer? Are you folks looking at an depth review of carrier operating costs, especially the Midway in relationship to other ships at the same tier and to each other? Thank you. 

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1 minute ago, SireneRacker said:

Do you blame people for not playing her. I played two battles in her, found her performance to be frustrating (was after the first nerf), and two nerfs later I see no reason to play her ever again. 

I don't blame you, or any other Graf owner, for setting her aside, hoping for better days.

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

I don't blame you, or any other Graf owner, for setting her aside, hoping for better days.

I doubt that those days will come in the near future. Announcement says it pretty well, "We consider their balancing finished." 

Meanwhile the entire high Tier balance remains in chaos, but apparently GZ was such an issue that she had to loose almost 1000 Torp Alpha. Disappointment is the only thing I feel here.

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I'm just glad that the Graf Zeppelin's secondary armament was not changed.

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16 minutes ago, Panbun said:

I'm just glad that the Graf Zeppelin's secondary armament was not changed.

oh yeh those really useful secondaries on a floating barge that can be seen from the moon, on a cloudy day, with 15 km concealment. I use them to confuse the enemy; they see me coming and ask "why are your secondaries not firing?" I reply, "come closer until we find out why."

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Idk why people are complaining about Graf being nerfed. We don't need broken CVs in the game that can nuke anything it wants with constant harassment like present Hakuryu which is still broken.

WG gave an option to refund Graf for doubloons so idk why people are so mad. Like WG is literally allowing you to return the product because they are changing it. It's not like they took your money and gave you another ship. Still work in progress. And even if Graf comes out weak, just don't buy her. It's better to have a weak ship and slowly buff it than to have something OP be released to the game. We don't need more Hakuryus.

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32 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I doubt that those days will come in the near future. Announcement says it pretty well, "We consider their balancing finished." 

Meanwhile the entire high Tier balance remains in chaos, but apparently GZ was such an issue that she had to loose almost 1000 Torp Alpha. Disappointment is the only thing I feel here.

I think if the flooding system remained the same, an alpha nerf would be reasonable. But it seems CVs aren't allowed to focus on being a DoT based class :fish_boom:.

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14 minutes ago, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

Idk why people are complaining about Graf being nerfed. We don't need broken CVs in the game that can nuke anything it wants with constant harassment like present Hakuryu which is still broken.

WG gave an option to refund Graf for doubloons so idk why people are so mad. Like WG is literally allowing you to return the product because they are changing it. It's not like they took your money and gave you another ship. Still work in progress. And even if Graf comes out weak, just don't buy her. It's better to have a weak ship and slowly buff it than to have something OP be released to the game. We don't need more Hakuryus.

Nerfing a non broken ship is the issue.

I paid cash for my  premium CV.  I don’t want Doubloons.

It is literally like they took my money and gave me another ship - the new CVs are completely different than what I bought aside from cosmetics and name.  I bought the old ship, not the new one and not Doubloons.

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19 minutes ago, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

Idk why people are complaining about Graf being nerfed. We don't need broken CVs in the game that can nuke anything it wants with constant harassment like present Hakuryu which is still broken.

WG gave an option to refund Graf for doubloons so idk why people are so mad. Like WG is literally allowing you to return the product because they are changing it. It's not like they took your money and gave you another ship. Still work in progress. And even if Graf comes out weak, just don't buy her. It's better to have a weak ship and slowly buff it than to have something OP be released to the game. We don't need more Hakuryus.

So let's say you paid money for a car... and then someone from the dealership set it on fire at some point after you got it home, and gave you a gift certificate for the same dealership, you'd be like oh hey thanks that's great? 

I'd agree mostly if they offered a cash refund, but offering to buy it back for a currency that can only be spent on their game isn't the same thing. 

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5 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Nerfing a non broken ship is the issue.

I paid cash for my  premium CV.  I don’t want Doubloons.

It is literally like they took my money and gave me another ship - the new CVs are completely different than what I bought aside from cosmetics and name.  I bought the old ship, not the new one and not Doubloons.

I agree, WG should offer a refund in cash because you spent cash, not doubloons. WG is planning to change Cesare without compensation of even doubloons. If they do that to Cesare then that means they will do that with all premium ships which is really messed up.

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3 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

So let's say you paid money for a car... and then someone from the dealership set it on fire at some point after you got it home, and gave you a gift certificate for the same dealership, you'd be like oh hey thanks that's great? 

I'd agree mostly if they offered a cash refund, but offering to buy it back for a currency that can only be spent on their game isn't the same thing. 

I dont think there is a comparison to be made between a real tangible products value and some pixels in a game. 

However, unlike the GC, I do think Wargaming should consider actual cash back for premium carriers as they didnt just buff or nerf a few numbers in the coding but completely changed the entire form of gameplay.

I will say that Kaga is an amazi g Tier 8 premium carrier though and may be worth the investment if you like carriers and the new game play.

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6 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

So let's say you paid money for a car... and then someone from the dealership set it on fire at some point after you got it home, and gave you a gift certificate for the same dealership, you'd be like oh hey thanks that's great? 

I'd agree mostly if they offered a cash refund, but offering to buy it back for a currency that can only be spent on their game isn't the same thing. 

Well you are right. It's that I assume if players who bought the zeppelin most likely already spend money in the game. Therefore giving back doubloons is no problem.
But you are right. You spent cash in the game to get Zeppelin, not doubloons. WG nerfed Zeppelin, so they shouldn't give back doubloons.

Have you heard what WG is planning to do with Cesare? It's crazy what that they are even considering that. There is no point in buying anything in this game if they are planning to do that. They can basically pull a Yueyang on any premium ships that people spent money on without even compensation of doubloons.

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I'm not a fan of applying universal changes to the Soviet BB line, and think that they need to be addressed individually.  For example, I think their unique dispersion curve was problematic at low tiers and support the nerf there, but by Tier 10 it was more or less balanced.  The Kreml had worse dispersion than the Yamato at ranges greater than 9km, and is worse than the Montana at ranges greater than 10km.  If the close range dispersion is nerfed further.....then the gimmick loses a lot of its value and becomes far less relevant on the Kreml.  

*This is not to say that the Kreml strictly relied on its gimmicky dispersion to be balanced.....but it was certainly what made it unique, fun and interesting to play.   

Edited by yashma

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17 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Nerfing a non broken ship is the issue.

I paid cash for my  premium CV.  I don’t want Doubloons.

It is literally like they took my money and gave me another ship - the new CVs are completely different than what I bought aside from cosmetics and name.  I bought the old ship, not the new one and not Doubloons.

You know that's true. They offered refunds, right? Don't remember if it was cash or doubloons. But I remember them saying those who keep her would be part of her "refit" (balancing) from which I gathered by reading here and elsewhere that didn't go so well. Now they've completed the rework; those who kept her to assist in her refit must surely be "fit to be tied" as they say.

It really was/is the worst case scenario regarding a premium. 

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10 minutes ago, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

I agree, WG should offer a refund in cash because you spent cash, not doubloons. WG is planning to change Cesare without compensation of even doubloons. If they do that to Cesare then that means they will do that with all premium ships which is really messed up.

They've stated there will be a doubloon refund option should it go live, actually. I just wish they did the same with poor Hood. Miss my short fuse...

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3 minutes ago, yashma said:

I'm not a fan of applying universal changes to the Soviet BB line, and think that they need to be addressed individually.  For example, I think their unique dispersion curve was problematic at low tiers and support the nerf there, but by Tier 10 it was more or less balanced.  The Kreml had worse dispersion than the Yamato at ranges greater than 9km, and is worse than the Montana at ranges greater than 10km.  If the close range dispersion is nerfed further.....then the gimmick loses a lot of its value and becomes far less relevant on the Kreml.  

*This is not to say that the Kreml strictly relied on their gimmicky dispersion to be balanced.....but it was certainly what made it unique, fun and interesting to play.   

I agree. But the problem is that Kreml has 457mm guns that can essentially nuke a t10 cruiser reguardless of angle unless it's a Moskva/Stalingrad.
Kreml's insane accuracy at close range makes it child's play to break guns in close brawls. It can basically do equivalent damage to Yamato overmatching bows by shooting the superstructure.

All RU BBs have very little superstructure and insane armor. Disperson must be nerfed otherwise all t10 CAs will be nuked just as easily as how a Monty nukes a DM/Minotaur. Additionally they take very little damage due to stupid armor. They are basically a Stalingrad on steroids. I've shot Kremls and other RU BBs. Any other BB would have eaten massive pen damage or citadels. But that thing when slightly angled essentially shatter the shells. Something needs to be nerfed. 

Their gimmick will still be noticeable like how taking dispersion mod on Monty instead of reload. Additionally they have other gimmicks that no t10 BB in the game have which is that broken armor. I feel like RU BBs will be very similar to Stalingrad so I'll just swap over the Stalingrad commander to them without respecing.

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2 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

They've stated there will be a doubloon refund option should it go live, actually. I just wish they did the same with poor Hood. Miss my short fuse...

What do I want Doubloons for?  There is nothing I want them for - it’s a pointless refund.

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4 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

They've stated there will be a doubloon refund option should it go live, actually. I just wish they did the same with poor Hood. Miss my short fuse...

I don't have hood. But I heard her rocket AA range was increased and the AA is very powerful from a friend who has Hood. Idk for sure as I don't have her.

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1 hour ago, Kanak_Unconquerable_hero said:

Idk why people are complaining about Graf being nerfed. We don't need broken CVs in the game that can nuke anything it wants with constant harassment like present Hakuryu which is still broken.

That goes under the assumption that GZ could nuke anything it wanted.

Hint, she can‘t.

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