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AbyssAngkor

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So an Enterprise can just keep chucking planes at a Shokaku, lose 61 planes, and still have enough planes to launch full squads?

There are not enough fighters deny CV sniping. I was launching both the CAP fighters and my "call fighter" consumables. Still the strikes get through, and all I can do was watch myself slowly die from a distance. I was long dead before my team did.

If WG intends for CV sniping to come back (but with no way to defend yourself this time), then kudos to the devs, they deserve a raise.

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Kaga is worse:

image.thumb.png.d57a795fccb0e57df59e3ea2

image.thumb.png.5349b2c0ce0db9e87e261ffb

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I just KNEW these would come in handy!

28 rocket fighters, 38 torpedo bombers, and 38 dive bombers on deck at the start of the match. You basically have to TRY to get deplaned (though it can happen).

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15 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Why didn't you return the favor and attack him back?

Because for some unholy reason Enterprise has 10 fighters per group.

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9 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Because for some unholy reason Enterprise has 10 fighters per group.

For the most part, WOWS has pretty good about not being "pay to win." However, back in the RTS days the Premium CVs came pretty close to it. It seems that they have retained some of their overpower tendencies when facing tech tree CVs.

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Eh... With the rocket planes in particular they seem fairly balanced. Yes, Big E's Corsair squadrons are 12/3, meaning they get four attack runs and her reserves are enlarged as a result, but those fighters are also armed with the same 3.5" FFAR rockets found on the Ranger, Langley, and the stock planes on Lexington. They're not the same high-damage 5" HVARs that Lexington's Corsairs get (and which I adore), or the 11.75" AP Tiny Tims for that matter. I'm curious as to how much damage his DBs were doing though, considering that they're AP.

I'd also guess that this guy was running EVERY regen mod and skill he could get his hands on in addition to Enterprise's quicker regen for being Kaga-lite. Because that's just over three times his extra on-deck capacity that you shot down. Then again notice his lack of torpedo runs (I assume with only 8 TBs killed), he was playing to his ship's strengths: AP dive bombers and enlarged rocket squadrons. The response in kind should have been to leverage your own superior TBs against him with a sprinkling of your own AP DBs and the occasional rocket strafe. But then again it also looks like he spent the whole match bound and determined to kill you, so you kept him occupied at least. I'd hardly call it a "snipe" as much as tunnel-vision.

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49 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Eh... With the rocket planes in particular they seem fairly balanced. Yes, Big E's Corsair squadrons are 12/3, meaning they get four attack runs and her reserves are enlarged as a result, but those fighters are also armed with the same 3.5" FFAR rockets found on the Ranger, Langley, and the stock planes on Lexington. They're not the same high-damage 5" HVARs that Lexington's Corsairs get (and which I adore), or the 11.75" AP Tiny Tims for that matter. I'm curious as to how much damage his DBs were doing though, considering that they're AP.

I'd also guess that this guy was running EVERY regen mod and skill he could get his hands on in addition to Enterprise's quicker regen for being Kaga-lite. Because that's just over three times his extra on-deck capacity that you shot down. Then again notice his lack of torpedo runs (I assume with only 8 TBs killed), he was playing to his ship's strengths: AP dive bombers and enlarged rocket squadrons. The response in kind should have been to leverage your own superior TBs against him with a sprinkling of your own AP DBs and the occasional rocket strafe. But then again it also looks like he spent the whole match bound and determined to kill you, so you kept him occupied at least. I'd hardly call it a "snipe" as much as tunnel-vision.

The primary issue isn't Enterprise being able to throw away planes. The issue is CV players don't have the tools to effectively shut down CV sniping. I can hope and pray that my fighters will intercept strike aircraft in time but 9/10 they only start shooting down planes after they've done their strike. Normally this wouldn't be an issue because eventually the aggressor will get deplaned....BUT...

Enterprise has 18 rocket planes and 21 dive bombers on deck. Shokaku has 15 rockets and 14 dive bombers. Both have 14 torpedo planes. Enterprise beats the Shokaku in plane regen except in rockets (minimal, only 7s faster on Shokaku). With 10 on-call fighters at all times (+2 more from CAP), Enterprise is immune to strikes but can strike other CVs with impunity. (Yes, impunity, because he went on to strike the rest of my team with FULL squadrons.) If I tried the same tactics in the Shokaku I would be completely deplaned before I even sink the Enterprise. In what way is that balanced?

A possible fix would require CAP fighters to last the full duration instead of vanishing after shooting down ONE plane.

And no, Kaga is not worse. Kaga has a higher deck capacity at the cost of having T7 planes. Enterprise's T8 planes have 25% more health compared to Kaga's and also get 50% faster regen compared to Kaga's planes.

I'm not calling for a nerf to Enterprise. I am against CV snipe tactics that the developers wisely eliminated 2 years ago but somehow brought them back again. Only this time, they are exclusive to premiums.

Edited by AbyssAngkor

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2 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Enterprise has 18 rocket planes and 21 dive bombers on deck. Shokaku has 15 rockets and 14 dive bombers. Both have 14 torpedo planes. Enterprise beats the Shokaku in plane regen except in rockets (minimal, only 7s faster on Shokaku).

Actually it's 20, 16, and 16 for Enterprise; 14, 16, and 14 for a fully upgraded Shokaku last I checked. I won't argue the rest, just wanted to clear that up.

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3 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Actually it's 20, 16, and 16 for Enterprise; 14, 16, and 14 for a fully upgraded Shokaku last I checked. I won't argue the rest, just wanted to clear that up.

Reading old stats from reddit, the official wiki badly needs an update.

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Just now, AbyssAngkor said:

Reading old stats from reddit, the official wiki badly needs an update.

Agreed. I've been cataloguing stats for a personal project and had the fortune to already own Kaga and have a chat friend that owns Graf Zeppelin and Enterprise. Everything else (save Audacious and Indomitable, GRR!) I can get from article-diving, the tech tree, and a smattering of inference.

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2 hours ago, AbyssAngkor said:

So an Enterprise can just keep chucking planes at a Shokaku, lose 61 planes, and still have enough planes to launch full squads?

There are not enough fighters deny CV sniping. I was launching both the CAP fighters and my "call fighter" consumables. Still the strikes get through, and all I can do was watch myself slowly die from a distance. I was long dead before my team did.

If WG intends for CV sniping to come back (but with no way to defend yourself this time), then kudos to the devs, they deserve a raise.

shot-19.03.13_01.00.29-0109.jpg

shot-19.03.13_00.51.37-0763.jpg

Where on earth did the other 40 plane kills come from? Fighters? Spotter planes? So much for deplaning...

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5 hours ago, Xanshin said:

Where on earth did the other 40 plane kills come from? Fighters? Spotter planes? So much for deplaning...

Exactly, why should Enterprises be allowed to lose over 100 planes and still have planes left to launch full squadrons?

He never even moved his CV the entire game...

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how many on-call patrol fighter consumables dose each squadron type have, that could quite easily amount to 27+ aircraft if each squadron has 3 recharges of 3 patrol fighter, and thus by dropping them near you he is taking the AA pressure off his principle squadrons, thus his ability to attack is not reduced by as much as you think.

Edited by b101uk

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8 hours ago, AbyssAngkor said:

So an Enterprise can just keep chucking planes at a Shokaku, lose 61 planes, and still have enough planes to launch full squads?

There are not enough fighters deny CV sniping. I was launching both the CAP fighters and my "call fighter" consumables. Still the strikes get through, and all I can do was watch myself slowly die from a distance. I was long dead before my team did.

If WG intends for CV sniping to come back (but with no way to defend yourself this time), then kudos to the devs, they deserve a raise.

You came in third.  

You sank a ship when hardly anyone else did. 

You got a ton of points from mauling  his fighters.  

You never mentioned reinforcing one side which gives you much more power.  

He only sank one ship (you).   

So you want to be invulnerable to a carrier that will spend the whole game on you and no one else?!

The only thing I will offer by way of support:  the US CV has around 80 rating AA and the IJN has weak AA (tier 8).   Surprised  devs allowed this as it lets the USN carrier do this while you cannot really “return the favor”. 

Meanwhile just make sure you’re  keeping control of direction of carrier, keeping one side reinforced, possibly taking control of carrier for 10 seconds when the run comes in to get better evasive moves,  and consider locating closer to allies so after a run at least he hits ally AA.  

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20 minutes ago, SeigeTank2010 said:

You came in third.  

You sank a ship when hardly anyone else did. 

You got a ton of points from mauling  his fighters.  

You never mentioned reinforcing one side which gives you much more power.  

He only sank one ship (you).   

So you want to be invulnerable to a carrier that will spend the whole game on you and no one else?!

The only thing I will offer by way of support:  the US CV has around 80 rating AA and the IJN has weak AA (tier 8).   Surprised  devs allowed this as it lets the USN carrier do this while you cannot really “return the favor”. 

Meanwhile just make sure you’re  keeping control of direction of carrier, keeping one side reinforced, possibly taking control of carrier for 10 seconds when the run comes in to get better evasive moves,  and consider locating closer to allies so after a run at least he hits ally AA.  

So what you're saying is that I should ditch my planes as soon as I see him fly near me, while he is immune to the same tactics because of his 10 fighter squadron and superior AAA? What if he strikes someone else? If I ditch control of my planes to manage my CV, I can't help the team and contribute air cover/spotting, etc. Is it a productive use of a CV when all you do is defending yourself against cheese tactics?

I had both CAP fighter from my carrier AND on-call patrol fighters up from my planes. I adjusted course to stay within my own fighter patrol circle, but the Enterprise planes still get through.

Notice that he was using rocket and bombs to sink me. My CV auto repaired fires (yet another mind bogglingly bad design) and he came after me with torp bombers at the end to flood me out. CVs have the worst maneuverability stats in the game. Tell me exactly how do I dodge 150kt rocket planes and dive bombers while lumbering around in a 32kt flat top? And spare it with the AA sector reinforcement advice. I'm not bad enough to need to hide my stats.

Edited by AbyssAngkor

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9 hours ago, AbyssAngkor said:

So an Enterprise can just keep chucking planes at a Shokaku, lose 61 planes, and still have enough planes to launch full squads?

There are not enough fighters deny CV sniping. I was launching both the CAP fighters and my "call fighter" consumables. Still the strikes get through, and all I can do was watch myself slowly die from a distance. I was long dead before my team did.

If WG intends for CV sniping to come back (but with no way to defend yourself this time), then kudos to the devs, they deserve a raise.

shot-19.03.13_01.00.29-0109.jpg

shot-19.03.13_00.51.37-0763.jpg

I am pretty sure he would have sunk any T-8 or lower ship he focused that much (with the exception of maybe an AA speced Atlanta/flint with their unlimited DFAA)...Why should a CV be immune to other CVs???  Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand your rational.

Edited by fishin79

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13 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

So what you're saying is that I should ditch my planes as soon as I see him fly near me, while he is immune to the same tactics because of his 10 fighter squadron and superior AAA? What if he strikes someone else? If I ditch control of my planes to manage my CV, I can't help the team and contribute air cover/spotting, etc. Is it a productive use of a CV when all you do is defending yourself against cheese tactics?

I had both CAP fighter from my carrier AND on-call patrol fighters up from my planes. I adjusted course to stay within my own fighter patrol circle, but the Enterprise planes still get through.

Notice that he was using rocket and bombs to sink me. My CV auto repaired fires (yet another mind bogglingly bad design) and he came after me with torp bombers at the end to flood me out. CVs have the worst maneuverability stats in the game. Tell me exactly how do I dodge 150kt rocket planes and dive bombers while lumbering around in a 32kt flat top? And spare it with the AA sector reinforcement advice. I'm not bad enough to need to hide my stats.

You got 6o plane kills.  It’s not useless.  If a battle is even and a carrier wipes 60 planes to take out a CV or any other single, his team will lose.  He could be taking out other ships and have planes left over to continue the battle  

Tell me: how many planes does the tier VIII USN carrier get at most in one battle   Hint: it’s not unlimited   

I didn’t say give up planes for 10 minutes.  When you realize a carrier is trying to take you out, then time it so you have attacked somewhere before his planes’ next run, recall, but do a quicker change in course (speed change as well) can be the difference between being hit by all torpedoes or none at all .   10 seconds of not controlling planes while using waypoint method as another way to change course  

Yes planes are still going to get through if a carrier focuses on one target and no allies are around   

Should the person you killed whine likewise that he could not stop YOU?

Do you want your carrier invulnerable to other carriers?  If you focus on one ship, no allies near, he will likewise be in trouble   

Think

 

 

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3 minutes ago, fishin79 said:

 

I am pretty sure he would have sunk any T-8 or lower ship he focused that much (with the exception of maybe an AA speced Atlanta/flint with their unlimited DFAA)...Why should a CV be immune to other CVs???  Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand your rational.

That's the thing. Enterprise is immune to other cvs but other cvs are not immune to Enterpise.

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3 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

That's the thing. Enterprise is immune to other cvs but other cvs are not immune to Enterpise.

But your post was focused on how he was able kill you, not him being immune to you.  So, I will rephrase my question. Why should a Shokaku be immune to enemy CVs if most other t-8 and lower ships are not?  

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3 minutes ago, SeigeTank2010 said:

You got 6o plane kills.  It’s not useless.  If a battle is even and a carrier wipes 60 planes to take out a CV or any other single, his team will lose.  He could be taking out other ships and have planes left over to continue the battle  

Tell me: how many planes does the tier VIII USN carrier get at most in one battle   Hint: it’s not unlimited   

I didn’t say give up planes for 10 minutes.  When you realize a carrier is trying to take you out, then time it so you have attacked somewhere before his planes’ next run, recall, but do a quicker change in course (speed change as well) can be the difference between being hit by all torpedoes or none at all .   10 seconds of not controlling planes while using waypoint method as another way to change course  

Yes planes are still going to get through if a carrier focuses on one target and no allies are around   

Should the person you killed whine likewise that he could not stop YOU?

Do you want your carrier invulnerable to other carriers?  If you focus on one ship, no allies near, he will likewise be in trouble   

Think

 

 

60 plane kills is useless because he went on to do full strikes on my team. Notice that he had another 40 planes to lose to AA fire. You can't pull the same crap in a normal CV. And his team won in the end.

I never said its unlimited. What I have a gripe about is that Enterprise can pull this cheese tactic, but not for any other CV. You try CV sniping in a Shok or Lex,  see what happens.

You went on to talk about waypoint steering and then immediately countered yourself and said that planes will get through if the CV pilot is determined enough. Well, which is it?

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Just now, AbyssAngkor said:

That's the thing. Enterprise is immune to other cvs but other cvs are not immune to Enterpise.

no, someone leveraged something at their disposal to reduce your effectiveness, and thus ended up outplaying you and to some degree your team (your team dose have some duty to help provide some AA, but by the same token if you are so out of place it makes it unworkable you have to take it on the chin).

 

there are two possibilities:

1: try to learn from how the game played out and accept you have done some thing wrong which have also been exacerbated potentially by your team and a better opposing CV player.

or

2: learn nothing and keep moaning because you can do no wrong and no one is better than you at playing CV's.

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2 minutes ago, fishin79 said:

But your post was focused on how he was able kill you, not him being immune to you.  So, I will rephrase my question. Why should a Shokaku be immune to enemy CVs if most other t-8 and lower ships are not?  

Because it doesn't take a genius to know that his massive 10 fighter squadron will do to a 12 plane strike package, not to mention losses due to his AA. Meanwhile, Shokaku only launches 5 fighters with the CV having deplorable AA that only shoots down planes after they already dropped their ordinance.

No, CV shouldn't be immune to planes. I was perfectly fine with that if I was able to do something about incoming planes (the old controllable fighters). But all I can do now is rely on RNG and the blasted AI not to screw me over.

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11 minutes ago, b101uk said:

no, someone leveraged something at their disposal to reduce your effectiveness, and thus ended up outplaying you and to some degree your team (your team dose have some duty to help provide some AA, but by the same token if you are so out of place it makes it unworkable you have to take it on the chin).

 

there are two possibilities:

1: try to learn from how the game played out and accept you have done some thing wrong which have also been exacerbated potentially by your team and a better opposing CV player.

or

2: learn nothing and keep moaning because you can do no wrong and no one is better than you at playing CV's.

Oh, ok, he outplayed me because he can do something I can't do. (10 fighters compared to 5 that can be used as AA fodder) Fair to say, if someone brought an actual gun to an airsoft game, he outplayed you.

Always good to see someone who hides his stats with 12x less games played lecturing me on how to play the game.

Edited by AbyssAngkor

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13 minutes ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Because it doesn't take a genius to know that his massive 10 fighter squadron will do to a 12 plane strike package, not to mention losses due to his AA. Meanwhile, Shokaku only launches 5 fighters with the CV having deplorable AA that only shoots down planes after they already dropped their ordinance.

No, CV shouldn't be immune to planes. I was perfectly fine with that if I was able to do something about incoming planes (the old controllable fighters). But all I can do now is rely on RNG and the blasted AI not to screw me over.

Welcome to the club that includes every other non-CV ship in the game when facing a CV...

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Just now, AbyssAngkor said:

Oh, ok, he outplayed me because he can do something I can't do. Fair to say, if someone brought an actual gun to an airsoft game, he outplayed you.

Always good to see someone who hides his stats with 12x less games played lecturing me on how to play the game.

yet I am the one "who hides his stats with 12x less games played" who can see 27 of your aircraft kills were patrol fighters, perhaps if them 27 patrol fighters were actually attack aircraft, torpedo or dive bombers you may have a point, but they weren't so you don't, your just moaning because you and your team were outplayed to some degree, it just shows that 13,424 battles means nothing if you have your attitude.

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