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HMS Hood Review Post Buffs

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HMS HOOD

REVIEW

AF5164AE204DFA547FA2013B9A6A687B1B5CD09E

 

I'm not going to go into to much detail here because no doubt you've seen a review for this ship before. This is more specifically about Hood's guns which were "Buffed" at 8.0, and alike with most of that update, Hood's AP is right now in a bad place. Do I think that any of the CC's, Developers or anyone else who could make a change will see this review? No. I don't, neither do I think that WG will do anything about it. Frankly, I'm just putting this out there because I'm venting from WarGaming taking my money and making my favourite ship a dumpster fire. So without further ado, if you are ready then grab your metaphoric stick and let's start beating this metaphoric dead horse

 

beating-a-dead-horse-gif-4.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(BTW So everyone knows, I do not condone violence. This is just a joke so treat it as such. If somehow you are offended by this joke, it wasn't my intention to insult/offend anyone with this light-hearted joke)

 

 

 

 

Hood's AP right now is bad... ok that might be a bit of an understatement, it's AWFUL. Hoods AP is lacking in every way and can't do anything unless you are within 2km and have the flat side of an AFK Musashi to shoot at. Ok, that's a little harsh but it is true that the AP is lacking in comparison with its old shell. I have hit the citadel of an NC, Nelson, Giulio Cesare, New Mexico and New York but all were within 10-2km and all were completely broadside. Which is pathetic, the Gneisenau could citadel an NC from 15km away. However, I'm not going to regale you all with boring stories that you probably haven't seen nor do you care about. I brought numbers to back me up...

Yeah, I'm a nerd.

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So these numbers are from when Hood was first released so 1 thing in here is inaccurate "bulletDetonator" is now 0.033 instead of 0.015 but the rest remained the same. What I'd like to bring to your attention is the category "bulletKrupp" Krupp if you are unaware means how much armour a shell can penetrate before shattering. Krupp of Warspite is 2330.0 and the Krupp of Hood is 2190.0 this means that Warspite a T6 remember will pen more than Hood a T7. However, both Hood and Warspite have the same fuse time now 0.033s if you don't see what I am getting at here let me explain. Warspite a T6 will penetrate and detonate within Battleships at all ranges, she will also hit with more of her shells due to her higher sigma value. Warspite will overpenatrate cruisers because of her higher Krupp and fuse time. However, Warspite will not struggle to do damage, the higher sigma, fuse time and Krupp values are perfectly fine against battleships. Hood T7 a tier higher than Warspite will struggle to do any of the things listed above. Her Krupp is low enough that she can't reliably penetrate enemy battleships unless a suicide ranges. Fewer shells will hit the target because of her slightly lower sigma and yet she will still overpenetrate any cruiser she comes across.

 

So THIS is why Hood needs to be looked at. Before the "Buff" Hoods AP shell would penetrate a cruiser and arm inside doing substantial damage. Citadeling a cruiser at 18.6km? No problem. Citadeling a cruiser at point blank range? No problem. But now Citadeling a cruiser at 18.6km? Overpen. Citadeling a cruiser at point blank range? Overpen.

The old AP was also good against battleships too. If the Battleship was bow on? Aim at the guns, Hood's shells would hit the superstructure and arm inside of it due to the short fuse time. Battleship broadside on? Aim halfway up the hull, Hood's shells would pen the weak upper armour and arm due to the short fuse time. Now Hood's shells overpen the superstructure richocet of the deck armour and if T8 or higher richochet off the bow armour. Also now if a battleship turns broadside on Hood's AP overpens the weak upper armour and shatters against the belt armour unless it's a New York or Hood's at suicide ranges.

 

Before the "Buff":

43C09B41115DD039C5B6875CE8CB103DDA1A5A46DD9D9F5AF787990B03330A31C49100EDC807CB04

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

268E4F3D29F5054F1F58957204C0CC1B543C1FE1

Now I could go digging through my pictures and find many more but I know someone will say that all of those were nitpicked. To that, I say yes, of course, I chose some of the best games I had with her before the rework but I would commonly, easily do 90k damage a game. Hood's AP wasn't useless or broken it was people not knowing how to use it. I mean it really is that simple, people buying a battlecruiser, expecting it to be a battleship getting frustrated when the AP didn't work the same way it did on other ships and then complaining saying the thing was useless.

 

This is what the current AP looks like:

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The more observant of you might realize that I died because of ramming, that ram caused 40k damage so in total with only my guns I managed to do 22k damage. Hood just can't do any consistent reliable damage. I WANT MY MONEY BACK.

 

If you were considering getting Hood, don't because before she was usable but different now she is unusable and just a terrible ship. WG even got rid of her special Defensive AA consumable instead of multiplying short-range rockets by 25 it gets the standard +100% to medium long range AA guns. WG you either need to give me compensation for this terrible mess of a ship or put it back to the way it was. I paid $55 for Hood and now you just went in and messed up my purchase. It wouldn't be acceptable if a company went into your house and replaced your wooden table for a picnic bench. I don't like to hate on WG it's hard to make everyone happy but YOU BETTER NOT MESS WITH PEOPLES MONEY!!!!!! Your policy of "Never altering premiums" is great because then you don't end up with situations like this where you tried to help a dying horse and in the process accidentally killed it.

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14 hours ago, Awe5ome said:

Aim at the guns, Hood's shells would hit the superstructure and arm inside of it due to the short fuse time. Battleship broadside on? Aim halfway up the hull, Hood's shells would pen the weak upper armour and arm due to the short fuse time. 

While it's nice to see people do reviews, this part is actually untrue.  It often gets bandied around that Hood's short fuse allowed her to penetrate superstructure and upper belts, but it's actually Hood's improved AP autobounce angles, not the short fuse. 
The reason?  381mm guns require 64mm of effective armor to arm.  For 21mm armor this requires the shell to hit at a 70.8 degree angle.  For 25mm armor this requires a 67 degree angle.
At those angles the shells are traveling less "through" the ship and more "along".  At any angles smaller than that, Hood will get nothing but overpens regardless of short fuse or not.  Any angle larger than that, and there should be no way a shell can overpen.

To be sure, I also tested this in a training room Roma before the patch, since Roma has the same shell caliber as Hood, but with an extremely high velocity.  Using a variety of stationary target ships with Roma, I lined them up ~1km away and blasted at angles close to 60.  Until the arming threshold was reached all shells overpenned.  However, once the required angle was reached all the shots became regular pens.  If Roma and her super high velocity shells does not overpen plating at those angles, then neither will Hood.

I also tested upper belts and cruiser citadels in the same way using Roma.  I've attached the results below.
 

Quote

Broadside Bismarck at 1km,  9/9 pens into the upper belt (160mm). 
Broadside Fuso at 1km, 9/9 pens into the upper belt (152mm).  

Broadside Des Moines at 1.2km, 7 overpens through cit(152mm).  @2km, confirmed cits above waterline.
Broadside Myoko at 2.3km, 9 overpens through citadel (105mm).  @3.8km, 5 overpens through citadel. 

Broadside Pensacola at 2.3km, 9 overpens through citadel (105mm).  @2.9km, 5 overpens through cit.  5 overpens through frontal cit(65mm).  @3.4, 5 overpens through cit. @7km, 5 overpens through cit.  @7.8km, confirmed overpens through cit.  @7km 45degree, finally citadel hit.

Broadside Kuma at 1km, 9 overpens through citadel (65mm).  @2.2km, 9 overpens through cit.  @4.3, 9 overpens through cit.  @5.8, 5 overpens through citadel.  @10km 1 confirmed overpen through citadel.  Note:  consistent cits when shells hit water first even at point blank.

The results here show that broadside battleships at 1km will not be overpenetrated by Roma, so as long as Hood penetrates the weaker belt she will not overpen.
On the other hand, there is the potential that Hood lost some of her close range cruiser citadel'ing ability.  I didn't have the time to test Hood before the changes went through, but seeing how Roma overpenetrates a significant number of citadels with less than 152mm armor, Hood's short fuse may have had an effect when fighting those lightly armored ships.  However, her low shell velocity alone might have enough of an impact.  I'll have to test that out.

As a Hood lover, I just felt like I had to clear up the misconception about superstructure and upper belt.  Even before the change, Hood still needed a heavy angle to get full pens into weakly armor parts of the ship.  Either that or she needed to hit them in the turret barbettes.

 

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I'd like to mention that part of the reason Hood's AP is worse than Warspite dragwise is that WG was also simulating the worse windscreens of Hood's AP vs that of Warspite's. If I'm not misremembering, Warspite and QE get the 6crh while Hood was stuck with the 4crh. Thus Hood loses more velocity at longer ranges. WG themselves mentioned as much, and also why they encouraged being somewhat aggressive with Hood; moreso as Hood herself has her older, higher speed, but her overweight, low-in-the-water hull helping to protect her citadel.

The loss of short-fuse also affected Hood's lethality vs DDs and Cruisers. What made her do so well as a cruiser killer, and even a DD killer despite the AP nerfs vs DDs, is that Hood's old short-fuse allowed it to be armed from thin-skinned, broadside hulls rather than overpenning. It was also quite effective to farm the superstructures of rival battleships with the AP, getting a bunch of pens instead of overpens. Likewise when combined with her improved normalization allowing her to better bite into ships at angles and at least get normal pens.

Now, without the short-fuse, she only has her improved normalization, which still helps vs angled ships, but she now tends to overpen broadside DDs and certain cruisers, and sometimes overpen through the superstructures of BBs. On the other hand, she now has slightly better consistency at the same ranges as before vs BBs and CAs.

The AP fuse change was really a side-grade; less-effective vs DDs and some cruisers, but more-effective vs other cruisers and battleships.

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The upshot of all this is Hood is just not fun to play anymore.

I've had her since she was originally released.

A week or so ago I stripped out her captain, flags and modules ... and consigned her to the reserve fleet.

She has become one big hulking target with few redeemable features, which is a shame as I used to like her previous rapid-reaction playstyle.

She can still move quickly around the map, she just can't do much while on it!

Perhaps they needed to nerf Hood to make the new Russian T7 battleships more appealing/effective?

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Got her recently as a container drop. Is not what I expected as far as performance goes.

Am sure the fact that she has become a "drop ship", regardless of how rare, has nothing to do with how......average....she feels.

But then again......

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1 hour ago, Awe5ome said:

beating-a-dead-horse-gif-4.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(BTW So everyone knows, I do not condone violence. This is just a joke so treat it as such. If somehow you are offended by this joke, it wasn't my intention to insult/offend anyone with this light-hearted joke)

I am extremely offended by this image.  Your stick man clearly displays a body type that I can never live up to.  How is a guy supposed to get chicks when images like this show men with such a slim physique?

Your horse on the other hand.... now I know where all my missing cheeseburgers went.  Let the body shaming commence.

:crab:

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Just now, LastoftheFallen said:

I am extremely offended by this image.  Your stick man clearly displays a body type that I can never live up to.  How is a guy supposed to get chicks when images like this show men with such a slim physique?

Your horse on the other hand.... now I know where all my missing cheeseburgers went.  Let the body shaming commence.

:crab:

Lol yes, body shame the horse and let’s burn the stickman at the campfire and eat smores over its disintegrating body.

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2 hours ago, Awe5ome said:

If you were considering getting Hood, don't because before she was usable but different now she is unusable and just a terrible ship. WG even got rid of her special Defensive AA consumable instead of multiplying short-range rockets by 25 it gets the standard +100% to medium long range AA guns.

So I have Hood have not played her in Random for quite some time, when was the special DFAA module removed I must have missed that announcement, I'm just in port now looking Hood over as this was news to me.  

This sucks big time  :Smile-angry:

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I totally agree. This was not a buff. It was a totally nuetering. Im glad you posted the stats on the shells, it is nice to see im not crazy. The .1 sigma increase is worthless if the shells that hit cant penetrate. Shoot a cruiser and its all overpens, shoot a battleship and its all shatters and no damage pens. Its extremely frustrating. I loved her the way she was, she had a niche to fullfill and did it fairly well. The short fuses were very easy to work around on battleships as well, aim for the upper hull and get tons of juicy full pens. Cruisers melted. You could go on a flank and not worry about getting struck from the air. Now her dfaa is worthless, her aa in general is pretty meh, her shells make the squeeky duck sound in my head when they land and she isnt anything like maneveurable enough to take into a brawl, which is almost required because the useful range on her guns against battleships is now 5km or less. Its sad really, to be urinated on while they call it rain.

 

WG, Please stop messing around with premiums. No buffs, no nerfs. Too often your customers are going to end up with something they wouldnt have choosen to purchase in the first place, and if a refund is even offered it is doubloons, so we cant even truly pick what we would want instead. I really want to spend my money on this game i love, but i cannot do so if this is how it is going to be.

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Wargaming balances with Sledge Hammers and not Scaples. This is simply par for the course.

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6 minutes ago, Phil_Swift_With_Flextape said:

Wargaming balances with Sledge Hammers and not Scaples. This is simply par for the course.

Yep, they need to stop "balancing" what isn't unbalanced in the first place, she just needed a little something... now she has nothing.

Seriously, all they had to do was give her a little buff to her sigma and maybe Warspite's AP =)

Hood is is a beautiful work of junk now.

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I find it really funny how everyone's been going "Hood is worthless now" when I find it more enjoyable to play Hood in her current state. 

I have a full AA build 14-point captain in my Asia account, and she's been doing really well. 

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1 hour ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

I find it really funny how everyone's been going "Hood is worthless now" when I find it more enjoyable to play Hood in her current state. 

I have a full AA build 14-point captain in my Asia account, and she's been doing really well. 

Boy is this missing the point: first of all, AA builds are a waste of points for the time being given that even the weakest AA can swat whole squadrons from the sky. Second of all, she has DFAA and by default the strongest AA at her tier among BB's, so the law of diminishing returns applies. For three, if all you wanted was a T7 AA barge there are better ships, for free on the tree or as Premiums, to fulfill that role. And fourth, she's a Battlecruiser, not an AA cruiser, and her given that she is carrying EXACTLY the same guns (just in a Mk II turret) as Warspite, now that they've upped her fuse time it makes 0 sense that the same Green Boy shells shatter sooner than the *same* GREEN BOY SHELLS in Warspite a tier lower. The lower shatter made some sense with her improved autobounce angles and short fuse, as it prioritizes hitting angled cruisers which IS what a Battlecruiser is ostensibly for, but now that she has just bog standard BB fuses, she should have BOG STANDARD AP pen. Especially considering that whatever broke AP pen in general means that she, and other BB"s are getting >50% overpen rates now. And I'm saying *NOW* to emphasis that they WERE NOT before.

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Why don't they just give Hood the same gun performance as Warspite? I'd be fine with that.

 

That horse dummy thicc tho...

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2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

I find it really funny how everyone's been going "Hood is worthless now" when I find it more enjoyable to play Hood in her current state. 

I have a full AA build 14-point captain in my Asia account, and she's been doing really well. 

I find it really funny that some people will go out of their way to denigrate others' issues and concerns by pointing out their own performance - which, btw in this case is server average for WR and below server WR for damage - and do it over and over again, thread after thread.

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Sub_Octavian was supposed to come back to us regarding the Hood gun tests, but still hasn't. I've asked him again today to give us the results and maybe he'll answer this time. I too would like to know.

Note: I've been able to citadel BBs over 10km away with her new shells, so it's not THAT anemic, but you're right in that I saw more overpens than I used to. I don't want to personally comment as I've only played three Hood games since the patch which is absolutely not a good sample size.

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9 hours ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Perhaps they needed to nerf Hood to make the new Russian T7 battleships more appealing/effective?

Sinop was already outperforming ALL T7 battleships in a recent tease by CCs. If WG simply didn't give her a superfiring turret, she'd instantly fall into line as she wouldn't be able to go bow-on 6-gun forwards and have to angle to bring all 9 guns into play (or the forward 6).

Hood is just a casualty of a dual nerf; the AA overhaul screwing with all AA values and AA-based gimmicks, and the side-grade to her shells making them slightly better vs BBs, but worse vs cruisers, especially light cruisers (and DDs).


The UP AA gimmick can be salvaged if WG would just give it its own pair of AA stats, independent of the regular AA stats. One would be Mid-Range Flak, with 20 "flak clouds" (standard flak duration) simulating the air-mine intention but long reload times (or 10 larger and longer-lasting flak clouds but still long reload times), and the other would be Continuous Short-Range AA with high burst but also long reload, simulating a couple of planes having flown into the mines and blowing themselves up. Since the DFAA is effectively worthless now that it doesn't Panic (or at least force a wider minimum spread if dropping within its AoE), directly touching up the original gimmick makes some sense.

The guns can also be salvaged if WG would just offer up two gun options; one with short-fuse + improved normalization (old Hood), and the other with regular fuse + improved normalization (current Hood). Maybe a 3rd as part of alternate hull (needs to equip hull to use said guns); gives up the UP Launchers and AA gimmicks for fictional modernizations to her guns, which would be Warspite's normal fuse + standard normalization instead (which would include better velocity retention at range due to using the 6crh windscreens; thus less drag).

Edited by YamatoA150
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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Sub_Octavian was supposed to come back to us regarding the Hood gun tests, but still hasn't. I've asked him again today to give us the results and maybe he'll answer this time. I too would like to know.

Note: I've been able to citadel BBs over 10km away with her new shells, so it's not THAT anemic, but you're right in that I saw more overpens than I used to. I don't want to personally comment as I've only played three Hood games since the patch which is absolutely not a good sample size.

Yeah I too have hit the citadel of enemy ships greater than 10km away, but those are exceptionally rare and you can’t RELIABLY get those citadels. For example Nelson I got 2 citadels on her from about 15km but could I do that again? No, only overpens/shatters so in the end the current AP forces you to close to short range because you can’t reliably do damage otherwise. 

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15 minutes ago, Awe5ome said:

Yeah I too have hit the citadel of enemy ships greater than 10km away, but those are exceptionally rare and you can’t RELIABLY get those citadels. For example Nelson I got 2 citadels on her from about 15km but could I do that again? No, only overpens/shatters so in the end the current AP forces you to close to short range because you can’t reliably do damage otherwise. 

Wait ... you citadeled a Nelson from 15k away? If that's the case, I suspect they tweaked her penetration values. According to a pen chart I have, Hood in 0.7.2 did not have the penetration to land a citadel on that kind of armor at that range, let alone two.

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6 minutes ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

I dont know ive had better games with the hood since the update.  Could be a playstyle thing.

Just you wait, one guy here will point out how your own experience is irrelevant to the issue.

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The short fuse used to be good for taking out DD, but the change to DD always over pen took away another major source of Hoods dmg.   While I hated that they made the Hoods guns weak the short fuse timer gave it a unique play style that worked.   Had they given Hood normal fuse timer with decent guns I might have been happy with the change but they didnt adjust the pen or the krupp value.   By leaving the guns with crap pen/krupp and long fuses they broke the unique game style she had and didnt make the new one work.

While yes the Hood did use an inferior shell in real life this is an arcade game not a historic simulator, plenty of other stuff is complete [edited] in this game so is changing the hoods shell to not suck really that bad of an idea?  I mean we are getting a completely made up [edited] line of russian BB's to be fair.

While sigma buff is nice it still doesnt do much because if your shell shatters it doesnt do any dmg.  And if you do hit you will now overpen a bunch of stuff you wouldnt have in the past.  One of the great things to do with the hood was use the advanced AP angles to shoot the bow of ships and get full pens off them with the short fuses like a DM, not any more though.  The Hood can still have decent games and can still do some dmg, the question is was the buff an improvement.  I would say no the buff was at best a side grade and at worst a nerf when you factor in AA changes and DD over pen changes.

WG attempted to make her fight like a normal BB but failed in my opinion.  I say put her back how she was or fix her shells.

Edited by JToney3449

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I've played Hood a few times since the update and not noticed that it was significantly more gimped.  If anything, she plays better.  I think many players want to play her as a BB and her playstyle is more that of a large cruiser, imo.  

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20 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Just you wait, one guy here will point out how your own experience is irrelevant to the issue.

And another guy will make a big deal out of any complaint or concern you raise, if he doesn’t agree with it. 

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