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Ares1967

Random thoughts...

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Upfront. I don't like CVs. They could be removed tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me one bit. They are here, and I enjoy the game, so I don't throw a tantrum over them. I'm going to share some opinions though.

 AA. So your bottom tier CV cant attack most higher tier ships therefore AA must be nerfed. AA gets nerfed and the gripe immediately becomes I cant attack a cluster of ships, AA must be nerfed.

 I have zero sympathy. The only thing a CV ever has to worry about is AA. If a match gets to the point a CV is under direct fire from anything, his team suffered a epic collapse, or he failed to keep an eye on the developing battle.

 Top tier AA should be devastating to a bottom tier CV. A Top tier CV should be able to pretty much ignore bottom tier AA. Yes its gonna suck to play a T8 CV 70ish percent of the time. That's the price extracted to get to a T10.

 Someone brought up "scaling" AA damage in a private conversation. Just the fact it could be seriously suggested indicates a problem with expectations.

 Scaling a mechanic is a horrible idea on so many levels. So we scale AA so a Lex can get through the AA of a Mino. Do we also scale it so a Dallas can be a decen th threat to that same Lex? What about Asashio? Do we scale the Asashios AA so it can be a threat to at least a cat fighter? Or is this only for the benefit of the CV and screw anyone else.

 Where else do we apply this? IJN 127mm guns shoot faster and do more damage when shooting a BB? Sims torps do 20k base damage when hitting a Musashi? CO only takes half Cit damage from an FDG? I consider each of these on the same level as scaling AA.

 DD vs the rework CV. My opinion the rework upset DD balance to a very large extent. Before the rework it took a better than average CV player to be a threat to any DD. Now due to rocket planes, multiple attack abilities, squad launch speed, and multiple CVs, many DDs have been beat with a nerf bat.

 I'm going to give an extreme example. A week or so back I jumped in a cap knowing both CVs were hunting me. Being in a Groz, I didnt really care. 43 planes later my trusty Divmate arrived in his Wooster. Yeah I lost half my HP, but I stopped their points, eventually got the cap, and we won a very close match. What if I had been in a Shima?

 Pre rework I'd have taken my chances against any CV player in that si3tuation in any DD. Post rework, especially with 2 CVs? We're gonna lose if it comes down to me heading into that cap. 

 As a possibly better than average DD player I have a couple of operating principles. One is, never throw away my ship unless its gonna cost the red team far more than my loss cost the green. I dont sit back spamming torps unless the situation forces me. I'll cap contest and start a gunfight with almost any ship while in any DD if I get the slightest advantage out of it. Since the rework I added another operating principle. I don't push double CVs in most of my DDs. That means when a BB or cruiser player is crying about no spotting... tough. My ship is as important to me as yours is to you. You want me to push into that cap while you sit behind an island or park beside a Mino... fat chance buddy. Push a flank? You first. 

 See, DDs got told to adapt. It works both ways. You're just not gonna like how I adapt. 

 I'm sure there are some unicums that can pull off anything, I wish you luck drawing them more than you draw me. I'm going to keep playing the game but I reserve the right to play it for my enjoyment and screw everyone else. I learned that last part from CV players. 

 

 

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Hmm... I'm not really having any trouble playing DD with CVs. Like you said, we players have to adapt, just like with radar. Of course, when DDs get nerfed to an extent where they're very unplayable, then...

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I had a tier (8) Japanese CV blow up and destroyed  my half damage tier (6) British DD when I was trying to chase it down and kill it , he new what he was doing ……...I should have gone for the base cap . two left on each side was a close game...….. 

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Well said. It does work both ways, but the reason I call most CV players kids is because they don't want to acknowledge this, like a stubborn little child. They want no AA, or AA to be nerfed so hard it might as well not exist, like when 8.0 first came out.

People can talk all they want about how they can still play DDs in the current meta, but that doesn't make them fun to play for the average player. Now people are finding that CVs aren't as fun to play due to various factors, but all everyone needs to realize is that CVs cannot be balanced by WG in this game.

 

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What CVs? I have been trying for 3 days to get into a CV game, 30 planes my @$$.

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5 minutes ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

I had a tier (8) Japanese CV blow up and destroyed  my half damage tier (6) British DD when I was trying to chase it down and kill it , he new what he was doing ……...I should have gone for the base cap . two left on each side was a close game...….. 

If the CV was as good as you say, it wouldn't have made any difference if you went for their base.  As soon as you entered the base, the CV would know where you are and the result would be the same.

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2 hours ago, Ares1967 said:

I don't push double CVs in most of my DDs. That means when a BB or cruiser player is crying about no spotting... tough. My ship is as important to me as yours is to you. You want me to push into that cap while you sit behind an island or park beside a Mino... fat chance buddy. Push a flank? You first. 

 See, DDs got told to adapt. It works both ways. You're just not gonna like how I adapt. 

 I'm sure there are some unicums that can pull off anything, I wish you luck drawing them more than you draw me. I'm going to keep playing the game but I reserve the right to play it for my enjoyment and screw everyone else. I learned that last part from CV players. 

:Smile_honoring:

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1 hour ago, Vector03 said:

I call most CV players kids is because they don't want to acknowledge this, like a stubborn little child. They want no AA, or AA to be nerfed so hard it might as well not exist, like when 8.0 first came out.

That's not the case at all. Stop being hyperbolic. What most CV players want is fair system and a diverse game.

Patch 8.0.0 -- A few Hak players took advantage of a glitch that allowed them to dominate until it was fixed. The community was up in arms. Non-Hak CV players were still trying to get the hang of the new mechanic and most thought the Hak damage farmers were giving them a bad name.

Patch 8.0.1 -- In response the Hak damage farmers, AA was buffed. However, there was a bug in the code that resulted in high-tier AA being much more powerful than planned. High-tier CV players rightfully complained about this.

Patch 8.0.2 -- The AA bug was fixed but in response to DD players' complaints the CV aiming and line of sight was nerfed. The Stealth AA of ships like the Minotaur were taking out squadrons before the CV even saw the ship that was firing at it. This was a legitimate complaint.

Patch 8.1 -- Stealth AA was removed except for DDs. CV players learned to adapt to the aiming nerfs. DD players begin to complain that the CVs should be nerfed again because they were still being spotted and hit. Plans are in the works to take RPF from planes so that the planes can't find DDs unless they literally stumble over them. DD stealth at high tier versus planes is better than the same ship firing in smoke. My gearing has an aerial location radius of 2.6 km.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Patch 8.0.0 -- A few Hak players took advantage of a glitch that allowed them to dominate until it was fixed. The community was up in arms. Non-Hak CV players were still trying to get the hang of the new mechanic and most thought the Hak damage farmers were giving them a bad name.

...

Patch 8.1 -- Stealth AA was removed except for DDs. CV players learned to adapt to the aiming nerfs. DD players begin to complain that the CVs should be nerfed again because they were still being spotted and hit. Plans are in the works to take RPF from planes so that the planes can't find DDs unless they literally stumble over them. DD stealth at high tier versus planes is better than the same ship firing in smoke. My gearing has an aerial location radius of 2.6 km. 

Heck, this Hakuryu player felt so bad after discovering the "flying Simakaze" strat that I put the ship down completely and didn't touch it again until 0.8.0.3. I still feel dirty whenever I think about it.

Yeah, DD aerial detection is frankly stupid at this point. It took all I had to keep from launching into a rant the other day because someone on my team didn't get that I couldn't spot a Shimakaze for him. Rocket planes are now functionally useless for attacking destroyers that aren't spotted by other players, their attack run is longer than the DD's detection range. Meanwhile all planes start with a flat 10km detection radius regardless of tier. Because reasons. A Hosho without CE can be unspotted without cover, and then gets spotted the instant his planes take off because their detection range is longer than the ship's.

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6 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

 

 The Stealth AA of ships like the Minotaur were taking out squadrons before the CV even saw the ship that was firing at it. This was a legitimate complaint.

Mino was a stealth AA ship long before the rework and fully capable of wiping out entire strike packages. She had a stealth window of well over a km. 

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As per the title,

I thought of my cat earlier, piloting a TB, as he dropped his torp he said "meow" which loosely translated meant "take that MF's"

Earlier today I had an itch, so I hit my radar button.

Skipping stones across the lake near home, a whole handful of them at a time, then I realised "wow they go 12km"

 

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43 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

As per the title,

I thought of my cat earlier, piloting a TB, as he dropped his torp he said "meow" which loosely translated meant "take that MF's"

Earlier today I had an itch, so I hit my radar button.

Skipping stones across the lake near home, a whole handful of them at a time, then I realised "wow they go 12km"

 

My mind went to Jack Handy...

Image result for deep thoughts by jack handy

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Random thought, it really sucks to be in a T8 DD in a match with virtually all 9's and 10's, two CV's per side and 3 radar ships on the RED team.. :Smile_facepalm:

oh and did I mention my DD had like 20 as an AA rating..

I am certainly not a Unicum player by any means, average about sums it up.  I played 13 games last night,  lost 8. some dismally.  Mostly higher tier, most had 1 or 2 CV's per game.   All had RADAR ships..   Got so frustrated playing DD's I went to the heavier metal with some cruiser and BB, had better games but still lost most of them.  Did get smoked in my Hindy,  thought the Montana I was fighting with had the FDG well in hand made a turn and poof I was toast. FDG just hammered me.  oops.

Like you Ares1967 CV's could be taken out of this game tomorrow and I would be doing the happy dance.. 

oh and somehow It appears I have Replay's turned on.. LOL,  So how do I view them?

 

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Quoted :

" DD vs the rework CV. My opinion the rework upset DD balance to a very large extent. Before the rework it took a better than average CV player to be a threat to any DD. Now due to rocket planes, multiple attack abilities, squad launch speed, and multiple CVs, many DDs have been beat with a nerf bat. "

The problem is cv took away spotting for dd's and now its more difficult for them to do their job and get spotting ribbons, the thing is dd's are the weakest ship in the game and get the worst results. So based on that no wonder you have dd players complaining. And now for eg in a tier 6 random game, you have many dd's plus the cv that comes last in results, hence the fact that it was already difficult enough for dd players to begin with to get the same result as bb's, ca's and cv's.  

There's a player in my clan who uses pan asian dd's and japanese dd's and they had enough problems with what I'm being told, as it was before the cv rework, now they can't play full stop and have really bad games every time they play random. So they have changed to playing coop, but not getting the results they want because of coop not allowing as much xp, damage, or even credits. So as far their concerned its a no win situation.

Edited by CrusaderQueen

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