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_Caliph_

Fix the US/IJN CV imbalance.

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IJN CVs have AP bombs and are forced to use rockets to kill DDs which at this point is easier said than done and time consuming. The US CV has the ability to drop HE bombs alleviating this issue. What it translates into is that the team with the US CV has its DDs relatively secure while the IJN side DDs have to play much more cautious. The only torpedoes worth a crap for IJN CVs are the short arm 2 shots and trying to hit a DD with them is very hard to do. The AP bombs do no damage of note. Rockets have been nerfed into the ground and by the time you have found the DD and start to arm you are lucky to get a decent shot on them before they have disappeared again. Either relax the nerfs on rockets or bring down the nerf hammer on HE bombs. Personally I feel rockets having the nerfs relaxed to be the more optimal solution.

Edited by _Caliph_

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AP bombs VS HE bombs are balanced just fine. AP bombs can annihilate cruisers like no tommorow but HE bombs are more versatile. It's a shame that the other plane types are not worth using, at one point it was fairly balanced when they were, hopefully that gets fixed again. 

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I find the opposite true: Japanese AP bombs are much more useful against battleships and cruisers, and are also backed up by far superior torpedo bombers which can actually be used to target destroyers. The Americans are forced to rely on HE bombs with torpedoes only really for battleships or as a last resort on cruisers, while having very little to no utility against destroyers.

I would rather all carriers could choose between AP and HE bombs, just like you can swap ammo types.

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9 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

I find the opposite true: Japanese AP bombs are much more useful against battleships and cruisers, and are also backed up by far superior torpedo bombers which can actually be used to target destroyers. The Americans are forced to rely on HE bombs with torpedoes only really for battleships or as a last resort on cruisers, while having very little to no utility against destroyers.

I would rather all carriers could choose between AP and HE bombs, just like you can swap ammo types.

???

The USN HE bombs are stupidly effective against DDs

In fact, they're stupidly good against all ships, because they can blow off some 12k~16k with a good 5/6 or 6/6 hit.

And that 12k~16k hit is comparable to the 15k~20k from AP bombs.

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16 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

AP bombs VS HE bombs are balanced just fine. AP bombs can annihilate cruisers like no tommorow but HE bombs are more versatile. It's a shame that the other plane types are not worth using, at one point it was fairly balanced when they were, hopefully that gets fixed again. 

I gotta strongly disagree with you there. You can actually defend yourself against AP bombs in a lot of the cruisers, which is a massive weakness for AP bombs. OP is correct, USN HE dive bombers are a plague on this earth, and I secretly feel a little bad every time I find a destroyer with my dive bombers.

Hakuryu is probably superior at absolute top level play within top level play, if you're able to guarantee defense of your destroyers and guarantee Midway DBs take casualties when they attempt to strike anything, but that is ONLY because of Hakuryu's torpedo planes. In randoms or against competitive teams who do not have a plan to defend their DDs, I will, and have, single handedly wiped a team of their destroyers; the only thing that can really save you is if I know we've already won the game and I want to go save my damage on battleships.

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1 hour ago, Big_Spud said:

I find the opposite true: Japanese AP bombs are much more useful against battleships and cruisers, and are also backed up by far superior torpedo bombers which can actually be used to target destroyers. The Americans are forced to rely on HE bombs with torpedoes only really for battleships or as a last resort on cruisers, while having very little to no utility against destroyers.

I would rather all carriers could choose between AP and HE bombs, just like you can swap ammo types.

Wow....what a novel concept that you could "Choose" your loadout....USA line hasn't seen that in a while

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I don't know about higher tiers, but at T6 the AP bombs suck. They are ridiculously inaccurate and don't even hit that hard.

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Interesting how everyone seems to have a wildly different opinion on bombs. So far working in co-op and scenarios when possible, I find the US HE bombs to be reasonably effective on everything (especially DDs once you get the knack for it, only just started myself on the US CV line, learned that skill fairly quickly, though I haven't entirely perfected it yet). The IJN AP bombs are awesome for BBs and certain cruisers, but seem to be hard to learn for some people, personally I never really had to learn how to use them, I already instinctively had it figured out (an interesting situation considering I only really started on CVs with the rework). RN 'dive'bombers are best suited for large targets in my experience, but I could see where it would be possible to get good enough with them to use on DDs, they certainly make good fire starters. 

All of that said, the IJN CVs are seriously lacking in both anti-DD capability and fire starting capability in general. I have yet to be able to hit a bot DD (on purpose) with IJN CV torps, but that's kind of to be expected considering the bots tend to have supernatural torp dodging skills. The flip side of that ability is that I've gotten fairly good at dropping torps right at arming distance and getting hits that way (and consequently why I never saw the utility of the long range 'stealth' torp bombers on Hakuryu, even when they were at their best in 8.0, they were still nearly useless vs. the bots). 

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A lot of it is an issue of skill floor. IJN CVs have a higher skill floor than USN CVs do right now. 

The big difference is AP bombs have varying effectiveness depending on approach angle, armor, drop angle, drop height and even where on the ship you hit and forward momentum of the bomber. You also have to know how to do it against each individual ship type. Ideally vs. BBs you want to drop high in the dive with the bomb heading nearly straight down (to minimize armor thickness), and you want to hit a part of the deck with thin armor, and which you can go through to reach the citadel. If you drop too low as the plane is pulling out, you change the angle of the bomb so that it increases the relative armor thickness (like with angling your ship against gunfire).  The bomb then may not penetrate.  Against cruisers you do the exact opposite. You want to increase the relative armor thickness since a lot of them don't have enough armor otherwise to arm the bomb and you just get an overpen. That sill may not work if you hit a part of the cruiser that is too thick. Against DDs you just drop as low as you can for maximum accuracy and effective armor thickness and they still may not have enough armor to arm the bomb. Most of the time you will just get overpens on them. 

None of that is an issue for HE bombs. They may shatter if the armor is too thick like on a turret roof  but they don't care about angle  or drop height other than that. Even if the armor happens to be too thick, it may still start a fire. A DD is the same as a BB other than size of the target. 

Basically the big difference is USN CVs are much easier for the average player to use and they generate steady damage. I am not sure they are better, but they they are good generalists and care a lot less about what they are facing. IJN (and RN as well) bias heavily toward facing BBs and other CVs. They can really mess those ships up, but smaller ships can be a struggle. If it's any consolation I am starting to think IJN AP DBs are better than the RN's level bombers. Heaven help you if you have to try to take out a DD with one of those. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

???

The USN HE bombs are stupidly effective against DDs

In fact, they're stupidly good against all ships, because they can blow off some 12k~16k with a good 5/6 or 6/6 hit.

And that 12k~16k hit is comparable to the 15k~20k from AP bombs.

Only if they hit, and decent DD players are quite adept at avoiding them at this point.

AP bombs I prefer because the majority of the damage they cause cannot be healed back. They are not strictly better, but I do prefer them.

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3 hours ago, Big_Spud said:

I find the opposite true: Japanese AP bombs are much more useful against battleships and cruisers, and are also backed up by far superior torpedo bombers which can actually be used to target destroyers. The Americans are forced to rely on HE bombs with torpedoes only really for battleships or as a last resort on cruisers, while having very little to no utility against destroyers.

I would rather all carriers could choose between AP and HE bombs, just like you can swap ammo types.

At tier 8 you have the Tiny tim rockets that are amazing vs BBs and great for scouting.

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1 hour ago, Big_Spud said:

AP bombs I prefer because the majority of the damage they cause cannot be healed back. They are not strictly better, but I do prefer them.

^ THIS.

USN HE bombs hit like trucks ... but half or more of the pen damage, as well as all the fire damage, can be healed back. AP bombs that land citadels can't. So USN bombs are great for putting pressure on ships being attacked by teammates (and nuking DDs and lower tier cruisers), while AP bombs, especially in the early game, can be crippling to battleships.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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