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WizardFerret

CVs have lost a lot of damage output with flood nerfs

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The nerfs to the flood chances of aerial torpedoes combined with the global flooding change has eliminated a huge source of damage for carriers. Carriers that cannot set tons of fires like Hakuryu for example have to rely on alpha damage alone, baiting DCP and trying to set up perma floods was a smart tactic that could get you high damage if used right, but now it's been extinguished. Not sure what should be done about this, but CVs need a reliable damage over time source that doesn't just work for the US ones.

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Just now, WizardFerret said:

The nerfs to the flood chances of aerial torpedoes combined with the global flooding change has eliminated a huge source of damage for carriers. Carriers that cannot set tons of fires like Hakuryu for example have to rely on alpha damage alone, baiting DCP and trying to set up perma floods was a smart tactic that could get you high damage if used right, but now it's been extinguished. Not sure what should be done about this, but CVs need a reliable damage over time source that doesn't just work for the US ones.

 

tenor - 2019-03-10T093751.801.gif

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I’m sure they’ll be making changes as time goes on, it went from cv’s getting 200-300k dmg a game without breaking a sweat to struggling to get 100-150 so maybe the next fix will find the middle ground. 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound

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While I loathe the concept of permfloods i will have to agree with the extra damage from dots just doesn't seem to be there for cv's. Even flagging up the hak has like a 40% flood chance that gets mitigated by class of ships and other factors that can have some very inconsistent results. Even great cv players like Gaishu can get 20 torp strikes and only get 1 flood. 

Now I must also caution that if too much dot damage is applied then we quickly slide to a very bad situation as well... This is something I think they will have to change in very small increments to find a good balance.

Side note being able to get cits with your db kinda makes up for the lack of fires and is a skill test.

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I got full drop hit on midway. Less 10k damage. No flood!!!. Yet they hate CV. Reported me being useless not spotting and spotting. But one torpedo salvo from dd send them to depth of ocean they just say nice drop!! Give compliment. WTH bias.

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CV's were not getting a lot of floods before so they didn't lose a lot of damage output. Where they have lost a lot of damage is having to hang back for half the match or more waiting for an attackable ship to fall out of the AA balls of hell.

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25 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

There is clearly a misunderstanding about the new flooding mechanic.  A shorter duration means floods are not a "death sentence for BBs ships, so players will not use DCP as quickly or as often.  With a faster rate of flooding and the possibility of multiples flood, flooding damage will actually increase.  Viola! The new flooding mechanic is actually a buff to CVs and DDs.

/sarcasm

A lot of people are still killing floods right away on ships that are in good shape but then you just start them on fire.

 

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Yes it's made a big impact on torpedo based DDs too.

No one let's floods tick out at the moment

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I suspect they made the change with plans to increase the flood chances in the future. 

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57 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I suspect they made the change with plans to increase the flood chances in the future. 

Yeah...just like they have plans to implement the overlapping AA changes.........zzzzzzzz

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59 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I suspect they made the change with plans to increase the flood chances in the future. 

If that was the case, you'd think they'd up the flooding chance at the same time they changed how it worked wouldn't ya?   

Don't really need evidence that an obvious change is gonna happen.    Had they said "This is only a temp nerf to flooding until flooding changes", then I'd believe it, but they never said that, and they haven't done it yet, so I'm pretty doubtful.   

It seems rather clear at this point they have no intention of making CVs playable because they are afraid of what the top 1% of CV captains are capable of doing, so the rest of that were interested in playing the new CVs get to suffer until we give up and CV population numbers are equal to or less than pre-rework numbers.

Basically the only CVs I saw all weekend were in Co-Op, minus 1 game where they were bottom tier and both finished the match near the bottom 5 in XP.

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It's pretty seriously effected me as a DD players in my torpedo boats but the effect is not exactly obvious..  With potential damage less ships have the potential to push harder..if I'm off alone on a flank screening in a DD the attackers are much more likely to push me back.  Still I'm loosing most of a 1/3 of my damage per match or so I used to get from torpedo flooding damage.  It's a goodly amount for sure.  Though I did get a kill from flooding two days ago..so it can still happen.. I can only assume the victim had run out of DCP charges.   I can see some CV's being adversely effected.    

The increasing amount of tactical puzzle in World of Warships how ever is really starting to effect the fun factor though.  and THAT is a problem. 

Grabbing Soap box

 

Let me tell you guys a little story of back in the day on the Microsoft "Zone".  There was this wonderfully simple fighter combat game called "Fighter Ace" it was simple, easy and and 30 player per side per match and the matches never ended   The rooms ran continuously and frankly it was a lot of fun.  You could play keyboard, Keyboard and mouse or with a D pad or Joystick(joy stick was best!)..  By popular demand the game got upgraded and made a little more complex.. Fighter Ace- II was born.     There was a fighter Ace III in development but something happened.. players other then the hard core sim types didn't like it.  To complex, too many controls,  too realistic.

WOrld of warplanes is somewhat like Fighter Ace II and is somewhat better but in other ways isn't as much fun.  I suppose one of the things with Fighter ace is it was just about fighting and flying.  No premiums, no prize drops, no premiums, just play.  period.  There were small differences between the planes.. At altitude the fasted plane in the game was the ME-109-K in a dive and on the deck the Lagg 7 was the shisnick! At mid altitude the P 51 was a monster..  Basic fighter tactics which really are simple were the rule, and easy to learn.  

When the Microsoft tried to go with something more complex players started leaving the game.. Fighter ace died when the Zone died but it was all ready dying.  The warning I see inherent in this story is WATCH IT with making complex systems and interactions in your games.  SIMPLE is best.. SIMPLE is approachable by the most number of players. 

Were getting a level of complexity in world of warships which I strongly suspect has chased a lot of player away.   Complexity is not fun.. fighting is fun, complexity is a distraction that slows play down.  

So that's why in multiplayer games that are going to be popular  to ensure they make money you MUST Keep It Simple Stupid!   World of warships is starting to fail in this guiding principle of multi player gaming.  I do hope someones listening.  Complexity for complexity's sake is a MISTAKE!.    I have seen multiplayer games fail time and time again because of increasingly complex systems added to a game.  MMO's can "break" this rule but they need to be very careful about this. Do not depend on a loyal fan base to carry you.   Two major MMO's that do this are World of Warcraft and Startrek online.  Star trek online's starship combat is the most stupidly complex combat system for a computer game I've ever seen, and the players that do well literally have to cheat by macroing EVERYTHING.  I've a life time subscription to the game but stopped playing it right around the time world of warships can along.  It just wasn't fun anymore.

Gaming is a social activity.. the more complex you make the game the smaller the number of people it will appeal to.  That's why the MOST popular tabletop games are very simple in play. Settlers of Catan, Carcassonne, Axis and Allies, are all good examples of simple easily approachable fun yet all have deep tactics and strats. 

So those of you with thoughts on making the game more complex.. from now on please could you just shut up and leave well nuff alone?

 

Warlord sends

 

 

   

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1 hour ago, Zenn3k said:

If that was the case, you'd think they'd up the flooding chance at the same time they changed how it worked wouldn't ya?   

Don't really need evidence that an obvious change is gonna happen.    Had they said "This is only a temp nerf to flooding until flooding changes", then I'd believe it, but they never said that, and they haven't done it yet, so I'm pretty doubtful.   

It seems rather clear at this point they have no intention of making CVs playable because they are afraid of what the top 1% of CV captains are capable of doing, so the rest of that were interested in playing the new CVs get to suffer until we give up and CV population numbers are equal to or less than pre-rework numbers.

Basically the only CVs I saw all weekend were in Co-Op, minus 1 game where they were bottom tier and both finished the match near the bottom 5 in XP.

I think they are aware that flooding damage is low now, but they have to get data to see what they need to do. There needs to be some time after the change to get that data. I fully agree that flood damage is now far too low. It's bad for DDs and for CVs its even worse. I can take Midway out and get a whopping 2 floods out of 20+ torpedo hits. Three total floods in a single game is huge. Add to that that each flood now does less damage than before it doesn't take much to tell that damage will be way down. Thankfully I never relied on flooding in my US carriers, but IJN and UK  rely on it a lot more. 

In DDs, I have rarely ever had a ship flood out. They have a much higher flood chance but their torps are almost always dam-conned after a few seconds once the target is sure nor more torps are inbound. If they died it was straight up from the alpha strike. Now that they have made individual floods less fatal, they can afford to increase the flood chance for CVs and DDs in general. I am pretty sure they first need to collect data on things like  how many hits are occurring and on how many zones under the new system to figure out how much they need to increase the flooding chance for each ship or class to get damage back up to where it is competitive. 

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This rework is keeping destroying the cvs, the torps become so useless i with i could have +1 group of drop bombers in place of this useless torp bomber...

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You guys are all making great points. Honestly the 0.8.0 Hakuryu would have been just fine if they didn't change it at all but have all these global nerfs here. 0.8.0 finally gave the CVs (At least the tier 10s) glory and now WG seems to be deadset on bringing them lower and lower, making them less fun to play. That so called "hotfix" which broke more than it fixed that is 0.8.1 just made things even more broken, WG should have taken it slow. Way too many nerfs CVs are getting worse by the day. We really need to get through to WG about this. Anyone here who has access to the suggestion category to WG please speak out, we need help!

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Carriers lost a lot of damage with the rework, period.

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The flooding mechanic will stay because while it hurts carriers, it also hurts destroyers, and that's the real intention.

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