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SephirothFyr

literally does not know how to play DD

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coming from a CA player with 52% win rate, thought i was some what decent to the game. Since I finished grinding zao and the CA captain, thought I may try DD. so I started of wth Umikaze and Wakatake. Did terriable. Did not contribute to the team at all. I just cant wrap my head to understand that I am a DD now, still tried to do what i did as CA: burn  BB, hunt DD, provide AA for BB. Also im too spoiled by IJPN CA's shell arc, cant aim at all.

 

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5 minutes ago, SephirothFyr said:

Any tip on CA to DD transitions?

MORE PRACTICES IN CO-OP FIRST TO GET AROUND

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I'm still a noob in a DD.    That's on the agenda for 2019 - get decent in the DD.

To start, I worked in co-op.   Knowing that the red bots will always head to the DD, that's how I tailored my practice.     First steps - concealment.      Can I effectively spot and not be spotted myself? (luckily, the WG events will usually have something like "spot 10 ships").   I actually made it a bit harder, and used the Pan Asian DDs, with torps that only work on CA, BB, and CV.   They won't hit DDs, so if I get in close to a DD, I'll only have guns.     I'd try different games, such as seeing how long I could play in a match without firing weapons.   Or spotting to get the red DD out of the way and then moving towards torping the cruisers and BBs.      

With Co-op, you can practice and even if you don't fire a shot, it won't hurt your team, as the others can usually carry.

I started with my T3 Pan Asian DD.   After a dozen games, I moved it into randoms and worked on the same efforts.   Spotting, strategic capping, torping, knife fighting, etc.

Fortunately, WG has provided a bunch of low tier DDs through their events and campaigns.     I do the same effort across the other countries' DD.     Get a feel for her in co-op, practice being aggressive (while not appearing aggressive), and then venture to randoms to put the practice into play.

I've still a long way to go, but it's a relatively no-pressure means of getting better in the DD, without borking your team too much.

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If you're playing IJN destroyers-- forget your guns exist. Until tier 6 or so, they just aren't worth it. They reload slowly, turn slowly, and are not present in any numbers that would threaten other nations' destroyers.

 

It's only at around Fubuki/Akatsuki or Akizuki in the branch line that their guns get anywhere near competitive, and for the Fubuki/Akatsuki up through Shimakaze, the 12.7cm twins are still highly situational and still will lose any gunfight with a same-tier destroyer of any other nation that is not severely damaged or being shot at by something else.

 

You also want to be careful about using your guns because, as torpedo boats, stealth is the IJN destroyer's greatest weapon. Guns will instantly strip that away, and the widespread hatred of torpedoes will prompt everyone in range to start shooting you the second you're visible. Keep that in mind if and when you decide to use those guns.

 

Your primary role is anti-capital ship duty. A role that your torpedoes are supposedly the best at. Leave the cap contesting to the USN, German, and Panasian destroyers who are actually equipped for it.

 

EDIT: I will amend that capping is fine in the IJN, you just have to be smart about it and usually only when you know you're not going to be contested, or if you know your opposition is in far worse shape than you are. A Farragut will wreck a Fubuki in most encounters, but not if that gun-happy Farragut only has 10% health and the stealth-conscious Fubuki is sill at 100%.

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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Don't start with IJN DDs. This is how potato DD players are born. The guns are so bad at the early tiers that you never really learn how to effectively fight other DDs, contest capture points, and win the vision battle for your team. You just rely on torping everything. That isn't going to work in the long run. 

Start with US DDs. This will teach you what you actually need to do as a DD (take capture points, fight other DDs, screen the fleet) and how to do it effectively. Quality of damage is more important than quality. Once you have the basics of DD play down then you can go back to the IJN line and learn how to really use the concealment advantage and work on your torpedo damage. 

 

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I am A IJN DD players.  Not an expert by any means.  Patience and situational awareness make for a good DD Captain.

As Kiyo correctly stated, the IJN DD up to Tier 8 is a passive hunter....  You have to "fight where the enemy isn't" because you just don't have the Mass to go toe-to-toe with anyone....  Be where the enemy must go and spoil and run to reset.

The Tier 8 really adds "depth" with the gun boats.....  And, they really aren't DD's.........they operate like light cruisers.  Play them as a cruiser.  The Kagero and up are still "fight where the enemy isn't" ships with more serious teeth.... 

It takes a lot of patience to find a spot on a map and spot, Cap if possible and them, deny access to obvious map choke points....  For heavens sake, REMEMBER:  torpedoes must be fired where the enemy will be and smart CPT's know which way the enemy will turn to avoid what you've given them to consider..........make sure the following sets are where you think they will turn to to evade the throw away torps (lures......)  And, if they don't, well bully for you !

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3 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

Don't start with IJN DDs. This is how potato DD players are born. The guns are so bad at the early tiers that you never really learn how to effectively fight other DDs, contest capture points, and win the vision battle for your team. You just rely on torping everything. That isn't going to work in the long run. 

Start with US DDs. This will teach you what you actually need to do as a DD (take capture points, fight other DDs, screen the fleet) and how to do it effectively. Quality of damage is more important than quality. Once you have the basics of DD play down then you can go back to the IJN line and learn how to really use the concealment advantage and work on your torpedo damage. 

It's almost like not every line is suited to the same things or something.

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I went up to the Nicolas first and played the begeesus out of it, till I felt comfortable in gun battles with other DDs and could drop torps at other ships at the same time.  DDs require a lot of situational awareness, there are a lot of ships out there hunting you and you die easily.  It takes time, but you'll get the hang of it.

IJN DDs don't really feel different till Tier VI with the Fubuki and then it is an entirely different beast.  You aren't aigle, you don't have good guns, but if you are patient and choose your battles, you can do well.  That is really the advantage to the IJN DDs is that you can often choose your battles in them, though with the RN DDs and the Haida, the Fubuki isn't as stealthy as it once was.

German DDs have been the most frustrating line so far.  They don't shoot well, stealth much, or have BB killer torps.  yes, they have Hydro and yes, they are good at taking out DDs and even the occasional cruiser in smoke, but that is a dicey proposition at the best of times.

Haven't touched Imperial Russian/Soviet DDs yet.

Panasian DDs have utility and feel like an awkward mash-up of US and IJN ships.

French DDs.  You either hate them or love them.  I hate the Aigle and love the Le Terrible.

RN DDs, these are great DD fighters and cap contesters really.  I include the Haida in this group.

Good luck, happy hunting, fair winds, and following seas Captain!

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9 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

It's almost like not every line is suited to the same things or something.

Yes and? Taking a line that not's suited to teaching the basics of good DD gameplay until you hit T6 or so (and that even then rely on making full use of stealth) for a guy who wants to learn how to play DDs is a very bad idea. It's like trying to learn cruiser play by starting up the Royal Navy line. 

Edited by Rocketpacman

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40 minutes ago, SephirothFyr said:

coming from a CA player with 52% win rate, thought i was some what decent to the game. Since I finished grinding zao and the CA captain, thought I may try DD. so I started of wth Umikaze and Wakatake. Did terriable. Did not contribute to the team at all. I just cant wrap my head to understand that I am a DD now, still tried to do what i did as CA: burn  BB, hunt DD, provide AA for BB. Also im too spoiled by IJPN CA's shell arc, cant aim at all.

 

These tactics are possible in nearly every other line and the IJN gunboat line split. IJN are torpedo boats, you'll want to use your stealth to spot other ships and learn to line up torp attacks. Not being seen and  avoiding direct confrontation is half the game for IJN DDs unless you decide to pursue the gunboat line. IJN torp boats are as close to having submarines as this game will get. 

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I'm a relative DD Noob as well.  3700 games in and i'm finally giving it a real shot at DD's.  I too started with Pan Asia, but I've bee finding the Brit DD's to be a good match for my cruiser-main game brain.  Shells are a little floaty, and torps are short ranged to T7.

I've just acquired Icarus at T6, and I'm really enjoying the play style.  Cap, smoke, spot and fight other DD's.  Occasionally, find the distracted and engaged BB and let fly with the torps.

Good luck.  it's a much different style of play.  I'm finding it to be a nice challenge.  

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Just now, Rocketpacman said:

Yes and? Taking a line that not's suited to teaching the basics of good DD gameplay until you hit T6 or so for a guy who wants to learn how to play DDs is a very bad idea. It's like trying to learn cruiser play by starting up the Royal Navy line. 

"IJN doesn't teach you what DDs are supposed to do" is the line I take exception to. Because "what DDs are supposed to do" is not the same for all DD lines. The IJN line will teach you what the IJN line is supposed to do.

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1 minute ago, Rocketpacman said:

Yes and? Taking a line that not's suited to teaching the basics of good DD gameplay until you hit T6 or so (and that even rely on making full use of stealth) for a guy who wants to learn how to play DDs is a very bad idea. It's like trying to learn cruiser play by starting up the Royal Navy line. 

I disagree. The basics of DD gameplay is being stealthy, spotting for your team, and learning when engage and when to wiggle out of there. Contesting cap (which is what I figure you're referring to) is an important part of DD gameplay but rushing to cap and getting deleted will do nothing for your team. A DD that has stuck around till the late game to prey on damaged ships and retake abandoned caps is infinitely more valuable to the team than a DD that sunk in the first 5 minutes trying to cap. IJN DD' captains have to be constantly thinking ahead which will make them better gunboaters in the long run.

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12 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

"IJN doesn't teach you what DDs are supposed to do" is the line I take exception to. Because "what DDs are supposed to do" is not the same for all DD lines. The IJN line will teach you what the IJN line is supposed to do.

Did the guy say IJN DD or DD? 

6 minutes ago, Selelai said:

I disagree. The basics of DD gameplay is being stealthy, spotting for your team, and learning when engage and when to wiggle out of there. Contesting cap (which is what I figure you're referring to) is an important part of DD gameplay but rushing to cap and getting deleted will do nothing for your team. A DD that has stuck around till the late game to prey on damaged ships and retake abandoned caps is infinitely more valuable to the team than a DD that sunk in the first 5 minutes trying to cap. IJN DD' captains have to be constantly thinking ahead which will make them better gunboaters in the long run.

Of course? Do you think he will have an easier time learning how to do that in a ship that can actually gunfight opposing DDs or a Wakatake with a 12 second reload on a couple of pitiful guns? And no unfortunately it probably won't teach him to be a better gunboater in the long run. It will teach him that his job is not to contest caps, to avoid gunfights with enemy DDs and focus on torping enemy capital ships. 

I mean am I crazy or did someone literally offer this advice only a few posts ago: 

Quote

Your primary role is anti-capital ship duty. A role that your torpedoes are supposedly the best at. Leave the cap contesting to the USN, German, and Panasian destroyers who are actually equipped for it.

Cap contesting is one of the biggest skills any DD player needs to learn. It's infinitely harder to learn when you're in a ship that is completely unsuited for it and relies heavily on taking full advantage of slight differences in concealment when it does do it. 

Edited by Rocketpacman

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wait till you get Asashio or Asashio B then you will learn to be a ninja, of right when t6 Fubuki. Ninja style.

learn to when engage when not to engage

when to shoot to lure the target into your torps or to supress into your torps

when to use speed boost

Then the line splits to gun boat. At this point, learn when to use the torp reload boost

 

Captain skills to supplement each line

 

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1 hour ago, SephirothFyr said:

Any tip on CA to DD transitions?

Make a game against yourself on staying dark. Try to stay dark most of the match. The longer you stay dark, the longer you live.

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37 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Panasian DDs have utility and feel like an awkward mash-up of US and IJN ships.

With the exception of Anshan and Lo Yang PA destroyers have just been targets to me.

16 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

Cap contesting is one of the biggest skills any DD player needs to learn. It's infinitely harder to learn when you're in a ship that is completely unsuited for it and relies heavily on taking full advantage of slight differences in concealment when it does do it. 

Cap contesting is more often than not a pointless exercise in futility that rarely generates anything except a trip back to port.

Big pewpews want that cap so bad? Then I’ll worry about it when they get out from behind the rocks to where they can shoot something...

...oh wait; it’s still futile, because their too busy farming battleships; or to quote James Wittmore/Admiral Halsey in Tora Tora Tora, ‘they couldn’t hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle,’ when it comes to shooting at destroyers.

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I'm not even close to being a Unicum player, especially lately...But playing other class ships is whats key...learning their tricks of the trade helps ya anticipate and identify which boat you're dealing with.

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   There are a lot of YouTube videos around. I would try to find the line that fits more with your natural playstyle or what you are most comfortable with and then branch out from there possibly. I am not sure how far up the cruiser lines you have gotten or what tech trees you have played because your stats are blocked.

    Always be cognizant of the mini map and where the enemy is as well as your team. Try not to over extend where you don't have support. Don't go places without a plan on how to get out or where you can go for safety. Remember you have no armor and your hit points are few, your job is not to trade evenly or tank. 

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Universal advice tends to be don't sit broadside in smoke, don't rush up to the enemy DD at the start of the game for the 50/50 torp kill, use speed boost to help in a gun fight.  

RU DDs tend to play more of the evasion tank roll than other DDs. Going into the cap first thing at the start of the game isn't a top priority and instead will skirt around the edges using speed and amazing shell velocity to long range harass battleships and DDs. Against cruisers is still a somewhat risky endeavor. Unless its a high tier or using a premium which tend to have longer than 4km torpedoes, the usual option with the standard 4km torps is to surprise the enemy around corners and dev strike them before they can train their guns. So it can be an interesting balance between deciding when to hang back and when to really make a hit and run. Their AP is also pretty good for penning broadsides kinda. 

 

US DDs also start off rough in the range department with 5km torps but tend to be able to swing around to launch another set until T-VII. Though by then they will see 9km+ torpedoes which are nice. The best thing about then though besides getting DFAA early is their guns. They rotate fast, the ship turns fast and get a good amount of them to shoot. Making them a good choice to enter caps and gun down the enemy DD with ease, assuming they lack cruiser support. Compared to the RU DDs their shells are slower and suffer beyond 6km but also shoot high so they can shoot over islands and mountains. They have the longest lasting smokes as well which makes them nice for prolonged cover to both DDs and cruisers.  A well balanced line, but may not feel the torpedo end until T-VI. 

 

The RN DDs are similar to US DDs in that they also have fast moving turrets that reload quickly, but lack a speed boost and their smoke (with 5 standard activations) only produces 2-3 puffs lasting only 60 seconds. With a built in acceleration module they get up to speed quickly and hardly lose it in a turn but can not move beyond their speed limit. So they are slightly more defensive in nature and, with better concealment than most, tend to weave in and out of combat whenever they feel like. They too can storm into caps to spot the target, smoke up and hydro them. Then defending that cap or moving on to the next objective. Their torpedoes tend to be 6kms until T-VI. 

 

I do not do well in German DDs enough to provide any useful tips but at T-VI they have better hydro (6km vs the RN 3km) and lob harder hitting AP. But they sacrifice stealth and maneuverability for it. So you will have to be more creative in how they approach and out spot the enemy. Before that they get an interesting launcher set up that allows them to send torpedoes at sharper angles. 

 

Finally the IJN DDs have the hardest hitting torpedoes and starting at T-VI the longest range after the upgrade. Though because of their low health pool both lines will want to remain hidden, out spot DDs with their better stealth and sink their enemy with their long lances. The recent buff to their guns also make them a slightly decent option. They won't win any gun fights but they can still leave a mark. So they are best used when you can get away with it. For the most part they are pretty much the same until T-VI where the Fubuki line will see triple launchers and the Hatsuharu line will start to see better gun characteristics. A common trick to annoy the enemy DD is to spot them and stay outside detection range so supporting cruisers can hopefully take care of them and allow the cap to be taken for free. 

Edited by Yoshiblue

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I think the main thing about DD play is knowing all the spotting distances on DDs. Nothing messes your day up more then getting spotted first and having entire enemy team open up on you. Until i can either get a spread sheet with all spotting distances or memorize them, i will not touch DD gameplay T5+

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Some good advice and some I disagree with. I do recommend the US DD's to begin with. They are very versatile. I disagree with forgetting that IJN DD's have guns altogether. Its just that you have to pick your battles wisely and against targets that make sense. I have no problem opening up on a DD in my Kami R when the situation is in my favor. That said, only experience will tell you when that is. It takes patience and practice for DD's, but if you stick with it, it will make you a much better all around player in the long run.

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Watch some videos and practice until you get the basics down at low tier or in co-op. Detection and the mini map are your new gods.

Even now something that helps me be successful is sticking with DDs for the duration of the gaming session. Going back and forth between from destroyers to cruisers and battleships can really throw you off, especially for someone who's learning.

Edited by HeathenForay

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18 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

With the exception of Anshan and Lo Yang PA destroyers have just been targets to me.

That is the awkward feeling part of the mash-up, lol.

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