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AlcatrazNC

Is there a point to play IJN CV ?

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I have been griding IJN CV since 8.0, mainly when I'm a bit borred about surface ship and wanna take a little break. I know that Hakuryu was OP mainly because of the F spam and WG with their hammer nerf made them almost irrelevent.

 

Recently I heard that WG improved the aiming of IJN torps, which made me try again the CV and now I'm at Shoukaku. I upgraded the TB which now can kinda survive T10 AA but I've noticed that since Hakuryu nerf, I no longer see IJN CV. I know on NA, there's a lot of US CV (I mean duh obviously) but I used to see quite a share amount of US and IJN CV pre 8.0. During the Haku reign well most CV where IJN and after the nerf, almost all CV are US.

During these last day, I would say 2.5/10 CV game had at least 1 IJN CV. And when there is IJN CV in the game, usually they tend to rank low in the team. I don't think I've seen an IJN CV in the top 5... Well actually I had 1 game where the Hakuryu was the top of his team, and that was because the player was Gaishu. But in other double CV game I had, usually US CV tend to rank better than IJN one. And the few Implacable I saw also tend to perform better than Shoukaku.  

 

I know US CV have very good rocket (I really wish I could try those Tiny Tims, or whatever they're called) and very good HE bomb. And their torps seems to be pretty ok. RN CV so far seems to perform not too bad but IJN CV seems to be really lacking. I hope it Hakuryu is better than Shoukaku because so far, Lexington seems to drop 1 more torps than Shoukakou while having better rocket and better bomb. (Those AP bomb are too situational to be used.) I'm starting to wonder if I should grind US CV line to have a better CV experience or keep grinding Shoukaku and wait for WG to actually buff them or rework them.

 

Also if you have any idea of CV commander build I'll take any advice. So far my 14 Shoukek commander has:

-AS

-IE

-SE

-Sight Stabilisation

-Aircraft Armour

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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My Ryujo wonders about the point of her existence these days. It's a cruel universe. :Smile_teethhappy:

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Ok about captain skills you want different things ( american vs japanese ) This is of course my personal opinion.

American

-AS

-TA

-AA

-SE

-CE

-SS

The reason why you may want CE first instead SS, is because the american carriers don't have the stealth in comparison with the japanese.

Japanese.

- AS

- IE  you don't want to get TA in the japanese carriers . TA increase the arming distance and the japanese torpedos are already fast.

- AA

- SE

And now i have doubts. CE is not really need in japanese carriers, unless you are in the Hak,  however the japanese tech tree is the only one that gives you a squadron with 7.5km CE, the torpedo planes. So you can make an attack so quick that the target will have little time to react.

SS in japanese carriers? You main focus should use only torps if possible so what is the really value in using SS? Of course because the crazy AA we have atm it is easy to get deplaned so you will need to use those AP bombers. So between CE or SS first i don't have an opinion.

 

About the carriers tier for tier.

At tier 4 only the Hosho i think is good if you focus in using only torps. Both Herpes and Langley are crap.

At tier 6 i found the Ranger weak but again the Ryujo using torps is ok.

At tier 8 everything changes. Now the Lexi have amazing rockets, amazing bombers and ok torps , so you can lose many planes and still have good squadrons to put a fight. Same history at tier X.

About the T6 and T8 british carriers i don't know a lot. I know the Furious at Tier 6 got a buff and the bombers can pen 32mm so maybe they are ok.

Edited by _no_one_
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Haku is still exceptionally good, but it's a bit more specialized than Midway. Midway has the advantage of very versatile rockets and DB, which can effectively engage all three classes of surface ships. Hak has better torpedo bombers in almost every aspect and AP DB are extremely powerful against many BB and CA, but suffers from having garbage rockets and thus being almost entirely unable to effectively drop DDs. In short: Midway is probably better all-around, but Haku can still perform well and in some cases better than Midway, especially in favorable MM (low DD).

For a captain build I would recommend: https://i.imgur.com/cTSHwh7.png

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Like the wows news tonight said. Midway finaly better than Haku!

US is deffently better. IJN has a hard to tume deffending from DD. All fighter suck now because you know DD complaning. And your ap does nothing but the ap is great for cit hit.

 

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Shokaku is hot garbage compared to Lexington.  I would rather staple my privates to a chair than play my Skokaku.

 

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I haven't tried Shokaku since the rework, but I've been doing okay in Hakuryu and enjoying Kaga once I readjust my torp aim from playing US CVs.

There is still one thing that the Japanese do better than the US now: With AP dive-bombs they are MUCH better equipped to take on battleships. Oh hi there Herr Bismarck! Let me introduce you to my good friend "citadel hits from above", I'm sure you'll get along swimmingly.

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Thanks for all the reply, I'll keep grinding IJN CV line before trying the USN then.

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17 hours ago, Gaishu_Isshoku said:

Haku is still exceptionally good, but it's a bit more specialized than Midway. Midway has the advantage of very versatile rockets and DB, which can effectively engage all three classes of surface ships. Hak has better torpedo bombers in almost every aspect and AP DB are extremely powerful against many BB and CA, but suffers from having garbage rockets and thus being almost entirely unable to effectively drop DDs. In short: Midway is probably better all-around, but Haku can still perform well and in some cases better than Midway, especially in favorable MM (low DD).

For a captain build I would recommend: https://i.imgur.com/cTSHwh7.png

Why did you take concealment Gaishu? 

4 points seems costly though I will admit even the captain skills favor Midway where she has more viable choices :(

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19 minutes ago, NoloContendere said:

Why did you take concealment Gaishu? 

4 points seems costly though I will admit even the captain skills favor Midway where she has more viable choices :(

At tier X the hak have poor concealment.

The other reason is that all japanese torpedo squadrons are the only to have 7.5km  detectabilty so CE will help you in a) doing stealth attacks or b) doing quick attacks that leave little time for the enemy to react.

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4 minutes ago, _no_one_ said:

At tier X the hak have poor concealment.

The other reason is that all japanese torpedo squadrons are the only to have 7.5km  detectabilty so CE will help you in a) doing stealth attacks or b) doing quick attacks that leave little time for the enemy to react.

 

^ This.

 

IMO the build focuses on quick strike and good concealment to avoid loosing too much planes. By striking, speed boost out of the ship, you can actually get out really fast and against ship like Moksva or Worcester that have AA range>6km, that 6.1km detection is actually pretty helpful.

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I wonder how many of you guys badmouthing the Shokaku have tried her after the latest hotfix (0.8.1.1). She received a pretty massive set of buffs to her TB's.

Boring, non-dramatic opinion, but IMO all the three CV lines feel like they're worth playing. With each hotfix they're getting more balanced and I'm pretty happy about how they've received distinct flavours.

US: Slight DB focus, useful torpedoes + rockets, bad concealment

IJN: Strong TB focus, AP bombs, good concealment

RN: Slight TB focus, backed by two sources of fires for DOT stacking, sturdy planes.

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I farmed up the IJN line to shokaku during 0.8.0.0, doing very well in Ryujo, but gave up entirely after the nerf. For those who are saying they are not garbage, what kind of damage output can you expect on shokaku and Haku? Are these mostly from torps or ap bombs?

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I tried Shokaku in 0.8.1.1 and still feels like hot garbage.

My biggest gripe about it is why do I get 8 TBs in a 4x2 configuration?

For that matter, why does the [edited] are these bombers so non-linear?

IJN

  • Ryujo: 3x2 TB, 3x2 APDB, 4x2 Rockets
  • Shokaku: 4x2 TB, 3x3 APDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Hakuryu: 3x4 TB

Literally, why did those TBs not go to 3x3 at Shokaku and then all of a sudden you get double the [edited]TBs at T10?

USN

  • Ranger: 3x2 TB, 3x2 HEDB, 3x2 Rockets
  • Lexington: 3x3 TB, 3x3 HEDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Midway: 3x3x2 TB

Literally, why did those TBs go from 3x to 6x torps dropped?

Why would you inflate the ordinance deliverable so goddamn much at T10? What? was the T10 only module not enough for some reason?

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

I tried Shokaku in 0.8.1.1 and still feels like hot garbage.

My biggest gripe about it is why do I get 8 TBs in a 4x2 configuration?

For that matter, why does the [edited] are these bombers so non-linear?

IJN

  • Ryujo: 3x2 TB, 3x2 APDB, 4x2 Rockets
  • Shokaku: 4x2 TB, 3x3 APDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Hakuryu: 3x4 TB

Literally, why did those TBs not go to 3x3 at Shokaku and then all of a sudden you get double the [edited]TBs at T10?

USN

  • Ranger: 3x2 TB, 3x2 HEDB, 3x2 Rockets
  • Lexington: 3x3 TB, 3x3 HEDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Midway: 3x3x2 TB

Literally, why did those TBs go from 3x to 6x torps dropped?

Why would you inflate the ordinance deliverable so goddamn much at T10? What? was the T10 only module not enough for some reason?

If I have 4x2 TB that translates to another payload drop in the water against nothing. It is stupid I know.

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Is there a point to playing IJN CV?   Why yes, there is....

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

I tried Shokaku in 0.8.1.1 and still feels like hot garbage.

My biggest gripe about it is why do I get 8 TBs in a 4x2 configuration?

For that matter, why does the [edited] are these bombers so non-linear?

IJN

  • Ryujo: 3x2 TB, 3x2 APDB, 4x2 Rockets
  • Shokaku: 4x2 TB, 3x3 APDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Hakuryu: 3x4 TB

Literally, why did those TBs not go to 3x3 at Shokaku and then all of a sudden you get double the [edited]TBs at T10?

USN

  • Ranger: 3x2 TB, 3x2 HEDB, 3x2 Rockets
  • Lexington: 3x3 TB, 3x3 HEDB, 3x3 Rockets
  • Midway: 3x3x2 TB

Literally, why did those TBs go from 3x to 6x torps dropped?

Why would you inflate the ordinance deliverable so goddamn much at T10? What? was the T10 only module not enough for some reason?

I might have a skewed view since I've almost only been playing Kaga and Shokaku since the rework dropped, but I do feel like Shokaku has her strengths.

4x2 TBs are pretty hard to get all the drops out of, but they DO do their job at soaking AA damage.  On an average run vs 1-2 t8+ ships I can usually get a drop off and get away with 4 planes in squad, for a loss of 4.  Against lower tier ships, especially later in the game the 4x2 setup can put out tons of damage.  Just had a game where I got the full 4 runs off on a Roma and a Gneis as they tried to cap.  A good number even managed to return.  As for the Hak, the 3x4 drop pattern is very inconsistent from what I understand, with over 1.2km arming range and base 40kt torps.  For traditional drops you want to use the 5x2 pattern, since they get faster aiming and base 50kt torps.
Shokaku DBs on the other hand are rather frustrating, mainly because of the combination of poor pen and the length of the aiming ellipsis.  But they are very effective versus island hugging CAs and I've been getting great use out of that.

That being said I agree with you on many of the points.  I finally got my Hak, and even stock the difference in capability is insane.  Squad HP jumps over 50% for TB and DB, and 26% for Rockets.  Raw alpha goes up 29% for TBs, 11% for DBs and 56% for Rockets.  Rockets also have near double fire chance, and DBs get enough pen to get citadels on every pass if you aim right.  Finally, Hak starts with 4 more TBs and DBs than Shokaku AND gets lower restoration times by 12 seconds and 4 seconds respectively.  The TB upgrade also gives Hak +2 starting TBs and another -4 seconds off the restoration time.  Like seriously... what?  The numbers line up in a fashion, Yamato has ~50% more HP than Amagi etc, but since you're going straight from t8 to t10 it's pretty jarring.

I also started the USN line with Ranger and... am pretty blown away by how fun and relaxing it is.  Perhaps it's the tier, but everything just seems to be less punishing primarily because of the DBs.  A buffed Ranger DB squad has 13k HP,  the same as an unbuffed Shokaku DB squad, and a 53 second restoration time.  Since DBs are her bread and butter this makes even being uptiered manageable.  I think the devs tried to do something similar with Shokaku, but they made her low restoration planes her rockets which doesn't really help her much.

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Hak's stolen AP bombs are pretty fun (yes a will forever hold a grudge on this). Can citadel most cruisers and battleships with ease.

The Torp bombers are still useful, just really hard to actually use now.

The rocket attack planes are just for cruisers now. DD's didn't like them so the nerf bat hit them pretty hard. On all sides, not just the ijn carriers.

If the ijn CV is still working well for you then they do still have a point. If usn CV works better or the upcoming rn CV, then they still have a point. Just for others to keep playeding them.

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:09 PM, AlcatrazNC said:

Recently I heard that WG improved the aiming of IJN torps, which made me try again the CV and now I'm at Shoukaku. I upgraded the TB which now can kinda survive T10 AA but I've noticed that since Hakuryu nerf, I no longer see IJN CV. I know on NA, there's a lot of US CV (I mean duh obviously) but I used to see quite a share amount of US and IJN CV pre 8.0. During the Haku reign well most CV where IJN and after the nerf, almost all CV are US.

I'd like to suggest you join the test server and see how it feels there. I am glad WG continues to try to fiddle with it (and fiddling with small adjustments and not throwing a sledge hammer at the situation/problem like they did the first few patches...) I find that the current build the IJN planes are just too soft, especially when you get uptiered. It simply wasn't fun to play. However, after 3 matches on the PT, I think they've improved it enough so that I might go back to it when 8.2 comes out.

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