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Xanthro

Require CV players to play in COOP and get a level of average damage.

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CVs play so differently than other ships, that there is no cross over in skill, and yet, CVs still matter as to who is going to win.

A CV with 19 matches in that CV, with an average XP of 188 and Damage of 1,385 is more than a hindrance to the game. 

Literally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

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1 minute ago, Xanthro said:

CVs play so differently than other ships, that there is no cross over in skill, and yet, CVs still matter as to who is going to win.

A CV with 19 matches in that CV, with an average XP of 188 and Damage of 1,385 is more than a hindrance to the game. 

Literally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

I do that very thing out of courtesy. Still haven't spent a lot of time learning the CV because it is still in flux. Been focusing on the Exeter grind and the William Halsey (yes I realize very late to the party with that one). Only one I play in Random is the Langley. It is the most forgiving. Even with a good match it will be near the bottom in damage contributed in a average game.

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12 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

CVs play so differently than other ships, that there is no cross over in skill, and yet, CVs still matter as to who is going to win.

A CV with 19 matches in that CV, with an average XP of 188 and Damage of 1,385 is more than a hindrance to the game. 

Literally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

Playing CVs in co op doesn't  mean anything.

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CVs actually do less damage in co-op than in randoms because the enemy bots suicide into the friendly fleet faster than they can get enough strikes in. And if they get a team (of allied bots) that dies faster than the enemy bots do, then they lose because they can't sink them fast enough to recover the point differential from ship loss and not owning any capture points.

Edited by Flashtirade
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i play CVs in Coop...but most of the time...yall kill things before i can have the chance to do anything significant.  but i do more damage than 1k and avg base exp 200-300.  but that is still low considering my avg CV play in coop was much more devastating Pre 8.0....but i'm getting used to it and my scores will get higher the more i play.  

so don't rag on some of us too hard...we cant all be pro level...right out of the dry dock.  

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4 minutes ago, galspanic said:

Playing CVs in co op doesn't  mean anything.

i is meaningful for those that only do play co-ops...

not everyone wants to play Random....not not all about Random Matches.  

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There's minimal counterplay between CVs now. It was much more important to have a competent CV previously.

 

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2 minutes ago, Shinnidan said:

i is meaningful for those that only do play co-ops...

not everyone wants to play Random....not not all about Random Matches.  

Right.  I play a lot of Co Op too, and actually I wasn't making any kind of a statement about the validity of Co Op as a format.  I get that people crapall over it all the time, it's not a "real" way to play, and all that.  My point is that Co Op does not prepare you for any other game modes.  I guess you can get a basic understanding of craft control, but when your enemies don't have AA, don't maneuver, don't strategically group together, and don't have a CV on their own team you have to account for.... It's like apples and the color orange.  Co Op is over before you can really amass any damage too - unless your team craps the bed and dies right away your planes won't travel fast enough to keep up with the shells your teammates are lobbing every 5-30 seconds.

I was clearly replying to the notion that playing CVs in Co Op as a pre-requisite to playing them in Random.

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I respect your sentiment, Xanthro, but the fact is there ISN'T enough target in Co-Op for a carrier to have good game.  Especially if there are DDs and other Torpedo-Heavy ships.
DoT attacks are kinda MEH unless there are no DDs and/or your co-op team is made up of bots / complete potato players (which is rare enough, lots of good players in Co-Op now)... because everything dies so quick and there's the annoying "Mercy Rule" slashing potential either.
Co-Op isn't as good as it used to be for DoT damage and letting flooding/fires burn for a long time.

Forcing CV players in there would be an exercise in frustration, IMHO.
YMMV, of course.

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1 minute ago, galspanic said:

Right.  I play a lot of Co Op too, and actually I wasn't making any kind of a statement about the validity of Co Op as a format.  I get that people crapall over it all the time, it's not a "real" way to play, and all that.  My point is that Co Op does not prepare you for any other game modes.  I guess you can get a basic understanding of craft control, but when your enemies don't have AA, don't maneuver, don't strategically group together, and don't have a CV on their own team you have to account for.... It's like apples and the color orange.  Co Op is over before you can really amass any damage too - unless your team craps the bed and dies right away your planes won't travel fast enough to keep up with the shells your teammates are lobbing every 5-30 seconds.

I was clearly replying to the notion that playing CVs in Co Op as a pre-requisite to playing them in Random.

:Smile_honoring: 

i see your point, thank you! 

when 8.0 came out i didn't sail in to co-op right off the bat, either.  i spent some time in the training room practicing the targeting on stationary and moving targets...then when to moving targets that shoot back.  at the time of 8.0 only had T6 CVs as i didn't thingk i would need to get any higher than that with CVs. however, even in that T6 ...i stocked out at least 4 bot ranging from dd's to BBs from t6 to t10s.  but eventually placed it against all T8 ships against my T6...as in most cases in random or in coop you will get up tiered.  and to my sea trials...it came down to what i though was most effective.  in certain situations.  CVs would work better in Random matches bc it would go on longer than  5 min.  however, in coop i found Fighters and rockets are quick hits...that you will be able to get your 2cents in before that bot dies at the hands of your other teammates.  

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43 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

CVs play so differently than other ships, that there is no cross over in skill, and yet, CVs still matter as to who is going to win.

A CV with 19 matches in that CV, with an average XP of 188 and Damage of 1,385 is more than a hindrance to the game. 

Literally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

:cap_haloween: :cap_cool::Smile_facepalm:

Edited by Herr_Reitz

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I played a bunch of coop with the Hak. The rework was nice, but Im still just not a CV player. Used the option to sell the whole line back for credits and xp, which was a no brainer for me.

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While I have said this myself a few times i have found that playing a few games in co-op is good but bots dont jam on brakes, or use smoke correctly. So really the co-op gives you the basics but that wont do anything for developing the player. I know it sucks being saddled with a sad panada cv but if they dont learn they will always suck and then come to these forums crying about flying into groups of ships rather then hunting for stray sheep.

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Why single out CVs? I'm sure there are plenty of low xp/damage players in every class of ship. For example what if it is the only DD on your tem? Where is the cut off and who gets to decide?

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Disagree with forcing specifically CV players to go into Co-op first.  There is no stopping the worst players to immediately get a Non-CV and be dead weight to their team with no prior experience.

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I think most of you missed the OP's point, he is saying if you are playing and have such crap stats, in your CV, go learn how to play it in co op first, get an understanding,  as there are so many garbage cv players right now, that it is detrimental to the other players, I would rather have an afk that a crap cv player.

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the problem of playing cvs in coop is that bots dont behave like a player would so you will learn nothing but bad habits that will lead you to loose all your planes once you start fighting real people. maybe its a good idea to learn the basics as a test but i say it's better to start learning in randoms so you get a feel of how is to use a CV :fish_book:

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1 hour ago, Xanthro said:

CVs play so differently than other ships, that there is no cross over in skill, and yet, CVs still matter as to who is going to win.

A CV with 19 matches in that CV, with an average XP of 188 and Damage of 1,385 is more than a hindrance to the game. 

Literally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

Not applicable, bots don't behave like humans. A CV driver, reaching or exceeding average damage [average to whome?] in coop will hit a frozen cliff during the real thing. 

It would be better for a struggling CV driver to confine them selves to t4 than practice in coop at any tier for any tier.

 

Crokodone

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1 hour ago, galspanic said:

Playing CVs in co op doesn't  mean anything.

Yes, it does. It gives you the capability to learn how to launch planes and move your CV. Plus, Bots don't change course, so you can learn how to drop bombs, launch torps, and use missiles on your planes.

Instead of being in Random and literally doing zero damage because you literally don't know how to fly planes, much less how to hit enemy ships.

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18 minutes ago, lordkiller14 said:

the problem of playing cvs in coop is that bots dont behave like a player would so you will learn nothing but bad habits that will lead you to loose all your planes once you start fighting real people. maybe its a good idea to learn the basics as a test but i say it's better to start learning in randoms so you get a feel of how is to use a CV :fish_book:

You can't learn BAD HABITS if you can't even move your ship or use your planes.

Numerous, and I mean NUMEROUS CV today have averaged less than 5K damage. Even the worst DDS are better than that.

When you are getting most of your damage because people ram you from fun, it's not good for the game.

Plus, it has to be beyond frustrating to get a new ship, and literally have zero idea how to play it. There should have been a series of missions for CV players to learn the basic mechanics of the class. Since there isn't that, the next best would be COOP so players can learn the basics.

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16 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

Yes, it does. It gives you the capability to learn how to launch planes and move your CV. Plus, Bots don't change course, so you can learn how to drop bombs, launch torps, and use missiles on your planes.

Instead of being in Random and literally doing zero damage because you literally don't know how to fly planes, much less how to hit enemy ships.

I don't know.  When the new CVs launched I played Co Op thinking that I'd save my team the trouble of having an idiot stumbling through the learning process, but after 5-6 games of doing nothing I thought, "Odds are the red CV will be just as lost as me."  So, I started learning in Randoms instead.  What I found after a few weeks of that (with the updates and all that) was that bots train you to play CVs like a batting machine trains you to play baseball... it's ~kinda~ related but striking ships in Random requires more attention to distance and timing than aiming and plane controls.

So, did a few games of Co Op help me figure out how to drive things a little?  Sure.  A little.  But figuring out how to take a Saipan up against 11 tier IXs and Xs (that happened twice today) is not something you will figure out in Co Op no matter how many reps.  Again, I am going back to your initial statement that Co Op should be forced upon people and they need to hit certain damage goals.  Being top tier a fair (as in not once every 12-13 games) number of times in a Lexington in Co Op does nothing to prove that you are ready to be a contributing member of a Random team facing off against almost all tier IX and X USN ships.  If what's happened lately is any indication, the best way to make people give up playing CVs is to leave it alone.  

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14 hours ago, Xanthro said:

iterally, CVS don't know how to move, or launch planes. That should be a requirement before subjecting others to your play.

I’ve never seen a CV that didn’t know how to launch planes.  

CVs can still be sailed the same way as every other ship if not flying planes.  

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14 hours ago, Flashtirade said:

CVs actually do less damage in co-op than in randoms because the enemy bots suicide into the friendly fleet faster than they can get enough strikes in. And if they get a team (of allied bots) that dies faster than the enemy bots do, then they lose because they can't sink them fast enough to recover the point differential from ship loss and not owning any capture points.

Yep.  As a result when there's a CV's in a COOP game it's more difficult to win.  And if there are two CV's, which can be matched to higher tier battleships, well good luck.

The matchmaker should never put two CV's in a COOP game.

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14 hours ago, wildgooseman said:

Why single out CVs? I'm sure there are plenty of low xp/damage players in every class of ship. For example what if it is the only DD on your tem? Where is the cut off and who gets to decide?

They have never played them, YET wants them to go to CO OP until they meet his/her standards lol.

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13 hours ago, Xanthro said:

Yes, it does. It gives you the capability to learn how to launch planes and move your CV. Plus, Bots don't change course, so you can learn how to drop bombs, launch torps, and use missiles on your planes.

Instead of being in Random and literally doing zero damage because you literally don't know how to fly planes, much less how to hit enemy ships.

Then you go into randoms with a bunch of half skills and have to relearn everything.

Worst part is now you're facing much greater AA.

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