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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

Testing gunboat IJN torp boat builds

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In my last video I pondered an alternate play style for the IJN torp boats.  I decided to use Yugumo as the test bed for the experiment, and decided to go full damage spec with max guns, and TRB.  The results are pretty decent, its a build I would run more in ranked than randoms or a CB setting.  I do believe smoke is the better option though.  You are investing a lot into your guns you might want to have that concealment to really allow them to go to work.  The build is in the comments of the video.  There is some flexibility in the build.  I weighed TAE or DE with AR and EM.  I decided to run AR and EM for the max gun DPM effect, and use the last two points in SSE since the others have little value and bigger smokes never hurt, well unless you are [edeted] like me and run TRB on this captain.

To note this was some painful MMing too with a CV and 5 radar CAs, two DDs able to "out gun" me and one DD able to out spot me.

Any one else testing gun builds on them?

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I don’t see the point, why not just play another DD? No matter how many captain points you put into guns you’re never going to outgun a kitakaze. The only significant advantage a yugumo would have is its stealth, which is irrelevant if you’re actually using your guns.

I get that torps are pretty irrelevant now, and I see how a gunboat yugumo might do better than a torpedo yugumo, but I still don’t think it’s competitive, not when there are so many better tier IX Dds.

 

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15 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

I don’t see the point, why not just play another DD? No matter how many captain points you put into guns you’re never going to outgun a kitakaze. The only significant advantage a yugumo would have is its stealth, which is irrelevant if you’re actually using your guns.

I get that torps are pretty irrelevant now, and I see how a gunboat yugumo might do better than a torpedo yugumo, but I still don’t think it’s competitive, not when there are so many better tier IX Dds.

 

Hey

But in all fairness; it never hurts to try new things and given todays meta of CV everywhere and radar, especially when not everybody's play style is the same.  If it doesn't work, then go back to doing the usual IJN torp thing.

 

Pete

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24 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

I don’t see the point, why not just play another DD? No matter how many captain points you put into guns you’re never going to outgun a kitakaze. The only significant advantage a yugumo would have is its stealth, which is irrelevant if you’re actually using your guns.

I get that torps are pretty irrelevant now, and I see how a gunboat yugumo might do better than a torpedo yugumo, but I still don’t think it’s competitive, not when there are so many better tier IX Dds.

 

First torps are hardly irrelevant.  I still win a ton of games off my torp tubes.

Second this is about exploring different play style options.  A max gun spec Udaloi has a DPM of 173,280.  Max gun Yugumo is 171,570 with much better torps, the option of TRB, and is a hell of a lot more flexible around the map due to her concealment.  If you can see potential utility in that I dont know what to tell you.

Competitive is in the eye of the beholder.  CUTER has finished in the CB top 10 a few times largely based off my Shima when every other team was running Gearing, Grozovoy, and Yue Yang. 

 

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Have actually considered using Akatsuki with Gunboat build since even in torp boat buil Akatsuki gun’s have been surprisingly good, although the turret traverse is a little slow. Tier 9 and 10 DDs being gun boats in that line is an interesting idea as well.

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From Akatsuki on up, I always build a 'hybrid' type of build with captain points and modules. My goal with it is to strengthen the torps and survivabiltly of the ship as much as possible, while also making the guns as comfortable as possible to use.

Usually, the gun reload has the lowest gain, but overall it's an improvement to the baseline stats of the ship.

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2 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Have actually considered using Akatsuki with Gunboat build since even in torp boat buil Akatsuki gun’s have been surprisingly good, although the turret traverse is a little slow. Tier 9 and 10 DDs being gun boats in that line is an interesting idea as well.

I have videos of her on my channel.  I actually run an AFT build with BFT.  TAE is crap on low and most mid tier IJN DDs.  It knocks like 7 seconds off Akats torp reload, but almost 3/4 second off the gun reload.  She is the closest thing to Shima in the game.

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2 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

From Akatsuki on up, I always build a 'hybrid' type of build with captain points and modules. My goal with it is to strengthen the torps and survivabiltly of the ship as much as possible, while also making the guns as comfortable as possible to use.

Usually, the gun reload has the lowest gain, but overall it's an improvement to the baseline stats of the ship.

My experience is the opposite particularly at mid tier.  Losing 7-10 seconds off the torp reload is not much difference when you can knock off 3/4 second off the guns when you have alpha like that.

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3 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

My experience is the opposite particularly at mid tier.  Losing 7-10 seconds off the torp reload is not much difference when you can knock off 3/4 second off the guns when you have alpha like that.

I tend to take BFT before TAE. Guns are more consistent and reliable, so I'd rather have their performance improved first.

My usual build is PM, LS, EM, BFT, SE, TAE, CE.

It leaves one point unallocated, but that can go into PT to help know when to stop shooting. I don't take AR because I've seen no real benefit from using it. The gains to me are negligable at best, and because I prefer to keep as much HP as possible for as long as possible, my personal gains from it are almost non-existent. Now, this isn't me recommending against using AR, if you can make it work, go for it. It's just that the playstyle that I've found that works for me doesn't need AR and the benefits it may provide.

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3 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I tend to take BFT before TAE. Guns are more consistent and reliable, so I'd rather have their performance improved first.

My usual build is PM, LS, EM, BFT, SE, TAE, CE.

It leaves one point unallocated, but that can go into PT to help know when to stop shooting. I don't take AR because I've seen no real benefit from using it. The gains to me are negligable at best, and because I prefer to keep as much HP as possible for as long as possible, my personal gains from it are almost non-existent. Now, this isn't me recommending against using AR, if you can make it work, go for it. It's just that the playstyle that I've found that works for me doesn't need AR and the benefits it may provide.

I usually drop EM for AR.  I usually take a bit of damage killing DDs early in the game.  AR helps out on the torp reload, but it shaves a lot of time off your reload because there is more to shave compared to other DDs.

I get around the slow turrets by using that to dodge damage, only pausing evading to bring the guns back on target to shoot.  The effect has me taking a lot less damage than my opponent, especially from supporting fires.

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai

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I've tried something similar with Shiratsuyu (trying to recreate Yūdachi's KanColle FP trait) and it's been surprisingly fun. I had a glass cannon build focused on both gunnery and torping, and it's definitely interesting.

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15 minutes ago, WuYixiang said:

I've tried something similar with Shiratsuyu (trying to recreate Yūdachi's KanColle FP trait) and it's been surprisingly fun. I had a glass cannon build focused on both gunnery and torping, and it's definitely interesting.

You just reminded me, I respeced my Shira captain for my Fujin for a ranked sprint.  I can include her in the testing.

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31 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

First torps are hardly irrelevant.  I still win a ton of games off my torp tubes.

Second this is about exploring different play style options.  A max gun spec Udaloi has a DPM of 173,280.  Max gun Yugumo is 171,570 with much better torps, the option of TRB, and is a hell of a lot more flexible around the map due to her concealment.  If you can see potential utility in that I dont know what to tell you.

Competitive is in the eye of the beholder.  CUTER has finished in the CB top 10 a few times largely based off my Shima when every other team was running Gearing, Grozovoy, and Yue Yang. 

 

I have to admit I've never tried a gunboat yugumo and that DPM does impress me. It just seems that if you want a stealthy gunboat destroyer the kitakaze seems like a much better choice, it's not quite as stealthy or maneuverable, but you get smoke + TRB, a higher hitpoint pool, a much larger DPM, 32mm HE pen w/ IFHE, a longer base range, faster turret traverse...

There are so many exceptional DDs at tier IX, is it really worth it to play a yugumo?

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50 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

I have to admit I've never tried a gunboat yugumo and that DPM does impress me. It just seems that if you want a stealthy gunboat destroyer the kitakaze seems like a much better choice, it's not quite as stealthy or maneuverable, but you get smoke + TRB, a higher hitpoint pool, a much larger DPM, 32mm HE pen w/ IFHE, a longer base range, faster turret traverse...

There are so many exceptional DDs at tier IX, is it really worth it to play a yugumo?

You are using the number one DD in line for a nerf as an example.

The reality is you don’t really want to play Kitakaze as a first line DD.  She’s too prone to eating torps, sluggish when radar detected, etc.  You can do it in a pinch, but I’d rather focus on dealing damage in her, not other DD things like scouting, capping etc.

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8 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I tend to take BFT before TAE. Guns are more consistent and reliable, so I'd rather have their performance improved first.

My usual build is PM, LS, EM, BFT, SE, TAE, CE.

It leaves one point unallocated, but that can go into PT to help know when to stop shooting. I don't take AR because I've seen no real benefit from using it. The gains to me are negligable at best, and because I prefer to keep as much HP as possible for as long as possible, my personal gains from it are almost non-existent. Now, this isn't me recommending against using AR, if you can make it work, go for it. It's just that the playstyle that I've found that works for me doesn't need AR and the benefits it may provide.

With tier 5-8 in Royal Navy DDs only had 10 point captains to start out with for each of them, so I went with PM, LS, TAE, and CE since the guns are already good, but the torp reload was a little on the slow side for my taste. The guns on the RN DDs are already quite good allowing the ship to take down other DDs as well as setting fires on larger ships. However gun power alone will not bring down larger ships fast enough, and at least with my play style I require massive destructive power far more often as I work through enemy ships.

The faster torpedo reload has proven highly successful allowing me to carry battles that would  have been otherwise lost and even getting Kraken Unleashed. Other skills added beyond the fist 10 points are AR and SE to enhance survivability and weapons reload since after all those are gunboats, but flexible enough to surve as torpedo boats at the same time.

So point is really it’s all a matter of knowing the DD's abilities and what can bring out the best in them. And saying that only using gun related is best for all DDs could result in falling short on some ships just as going totally torpedo focused on all DDs could be bad idea.

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