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SteelClaw

This is why players are no longer playing CV

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Pretty much. When bottom tiered, AA will swat your planes like flies. When top tiered, AA is too weak - until people blob up, and then your planes are dropping like flies again.

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Looks good to me! Do carry on. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by So_lt_Goes
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Playing CV can be very frustrating the way AA is. I many times just find open waters and use bombs or torps just to send a squad back so I do not lose them all on an attack. 

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Meh... Three days ago it looked like players were quitting DDs. Yesterday they were back. Players quit playing everyday, until tomorrow. 

Edited by MrKilmister
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1 minute ago, MrKilmister said:

Three days ago it looked players were quitting DDs. Yesterday they were back. Players quit playing everyday, until tomorrow.

Replace "quitting" with "Migrating." People still play, just not CV.

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So this is a CV's are too week thread?

Just trying to keep track.

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3 minutes ago, paradat said:

So this is a CV's are too week thread?

Just trying to keep track.

I do not think he is saying CV are too weak just that AA is too strong. 

Edited by Venac

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1 minute ago, Venac said:

I do not think he is saying CV are too weak just that AA is too strong. 

Of course I am just referring to overall impact. CV impact is underpowered... because of AA? OK sure. 

We have so many CV to week threads and so many CV to strong threads …. I am getting dizzy. lol

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2 minutes ago, Venac said:

he is saying CV are too weak just that AA is too strong. 

Its both... Strong AA and nerfed DMG of patch 0.8.0.1

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this is why many of us in the TS said even tiers only was stupid. but WG didn't listen and now we're having so many problems finding the sweet spot that is balance.:cap_old:

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So AA is too strong and planes can't make attacks.

But, if they reduce AA then planes can do damage at will and surface ships are just targets to be farmed.

Which side gets to have fun? Pilots do damage or everyone else is protected from planes? Because there is no middle ground. 

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1 minute ago, ruar said:

So AA is too strong and planes can't make attacks.

But, if they reduce AA then planes can do damage at will and surface ships are just targets to be farmed.

Which side gets to have fun? Pilots do damage or everyone else is protected from planes? Because there is no middle ground. 

That's why some people have been arguing against the existence of CV from the start. It looks impossible to balance. At the same time a lot of people dislike having to blob up only because of CV.

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Yet another example of why CVs are nigh impossible to balance in this game.  As if none of us knew this already.

Face it, WG.  It's never going to work.

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16 minutes ago, Tentakkel said:

That's why some people have been arguing against the existence of CV from the start. It looks impossible to balance. At the same time a lot of people dislike having to blob up only because of CV.

I think the answer is plane vs plane with limited surface attack capability. Then PVE for those who need to attack ships.

WG can't please everyone on this so play to the trends. Trend is surface ships fight surface ships is bulk of population. Minor number flies planes. Have planes present and contribute but not the driving force of the match. Then provide a place for the pilots to dominate ships without impacting other players.

Yeah, some pilots won't be happy but thousands of ship captains will, so cater to ship group. 

Alternately, make co-op rewarding for ship captains and simply concede that random is for pilots and everyone else just fights bots. Which I'm fine with, and all I've played lately,  I'm just tired of losing credits for having a decent match but playing a support ship.

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AA interaction with planes is over simplified and its not working out AT ALL, for either CV's or their targets.

Tier differentiation is another problem, partially caused by a lack of odd tiers (WG maybe got lazy and did this to make the UK CV's easier to do), and from the huge dps jump between t8 and t10.

 

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17 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Yet another example of why CVs are nigh impossible to balance in this game.  As if none of us knew this already.

Face it, WG.  It's never going to work.

I do believe you've called it 100% correctly. 

How in the heck can you balance a class that can 1) scout the whole map quickly and not risk being sunk (unless the captain is totally stupid),  2) make it so that the skill gap between a good CV captain and and not so good captain isn't so great as to almost determine the match outcome (like it used to), and 3) balance the damage a CV can do vs AA protection from it's targets?  Even if number 3 is actually figured out I don't see how the other two points are able to be balanced.

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3 minutes ago, Merc85 said:

I do believe you've called it 100% correctly. 

How in the heck can you balance a class that can 1) scout the whole map quickly and not risk being sunk (unless the captain is totally stupid),  2) make it so that the skill gap between a good CV captain and and not so good captain isn't so great as to almost determine the match outcome (like it used to), and 3) balance the damage a CV can do vs AA protection from it's targets?  Even if number 3 is actually figured out I don't see how the other two points are able to be balanced.

Like this.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/183517-how-to-implement-cvs-in-pvp/

 

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The strength of the AA?  Depends.

 

The Unicum CV drivers are doing great.

 

Anyone not like them are doing far less so.  I've seen these CVs in Co-op amount to very little as they struggle to do anything.  I watch Midways and Hakuryus consistently place around the bottom in XPs.  CVs have been so bad that I consider 1 Bot Tier X BB = 2-3 Player CVs.  You guys ever seen a Tier X CV getting chased around the map by 2-3 Bot BBs and lose the entire map?  There's literally nothing they can do to stop it.  It's hilarious a.f.

 

All this is funny.  Because one of the primary aims of the CV Rework was to lessen the gap between the Elite and Captain Average Joes from the Pre-Rework days.  If anything, the gap has only grown :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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And CVs are never going to be balanced, not with the current game mechanics. 

 

- If AA is too strong, CVs cant reliable strike and deal damage, CVs become too weak. 

- If AA is too weak, CVs can reliable strike and deal damage, they become too strong. 

 

There is no way to achieve balance with the current mechanics. This should be very clear by now. The old RTS system had similar issues.  The only way to balance CVs would be a rework of several game mechanics/aspects. 

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2 minutes ago, Xlap said:

And CVs are never going to be balanced, not with the current game mechanics. 

 

- If AA is too strong, CVs cant reliable strike and deal damage, CVs become too weak. 

- If AA is too weak, CVs can reliable strike and deal damage, they become too strong. 

 

There is no way to achieve balance with the current mechanics. This should be very clear by now. The old RTS system had similar issues.  The only way to balance CVs would be a rework of several game mechanics/aspects. 

Agreed, which is what I think ruar is also suggesting.  @ruar

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T8+ AA is absolutely stupid. Got my first t8 CV, and it's nearly unplayable. You get 1 drop per squad and spend half the match trying to regen new planes. 

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One thing that would help is send less squads per run. That way the CV would not lose so many planes per attack. Keep the squad size the same just less squads each run. 

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