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MEANN

Clan melt down 2019-18

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Over the last few months to a year we have seen some of the larger clans at the top of the leader board melt. Mass exodus to form other clans, or to go solo. It has me thinking. I am the Clan leader of HATE. One thing I can say about our clan is that we are pretty drama free. I know quite a few clans that are very healthy and most of them have a few things in common. As I write this I don't want the theme to be about my clan or about the pretty well known clans that are falling apart. I want this to be about how to find a clan and a culture that will make your game play and experience in the game more fun. Fun that is why all of us started to play. As I can only pull on my personal experience, I will offer a few things to consider.  I had started in a clan when it was just beginning of clans. I will not call out where I was but I will say that a lot of clans will have similar ideas of how a clan should be ran. You have a rank structure that is based in either army or navy hierarchy. So that is where in my opinion the problem starts. Consider this, for the most part we are a bunch of voices online in discord or ts3 and we suddenly have 10 people that think they can tell you what to do, what you can and cant do.  By this structure you start a conflict. You don't have dominion over adults. In my clan I recruited by expressing the vision of the clan and the basic standards in which we will treat each other. People follow me by choice not title or rank. They see the same vision and goal for the clan and want to be a part of it. A lot of players will try to join a clan to "be" in the best clan or have the best rank. You have to ask yourself why and what do I want from the clan? Most players want to have fun, laugh, win, improve, and play together. Does your clan promote that? Is the clan you are in working together? Do they come on the voice coms when in the game? Do you division up together? Or is the culture of the clan littered with toxic egos? I need to be worshiped for my silk and all those that are not in the stat range that this person feels if valid are shitters and should uninstall. How many clans have at least 3 or 4 of those players.  When that is the case it is merely time before they poison the rest. What I would recommend you do is consider first what the culture of the clan is? What is the vision of the clan and it's leadership? What are the time requirements to be there? Is this a place that I can be a member and have fun. What is the median age? Not that age should be a factor in the choice, but you have to consider the topics that will be discussed in the voice chat. (must be 18 min for my clan) Below I have the rules as they are for my clan. I can't say that I have it all figured out but i can say I have a lot of long term players. 

  • Have fun and like to win
  • use discord when in the game
  • don't raise your voice improve your argument
  • volume doesn't make your opinion more valid 
  • understand that someone mite know something that you don't
  • everyone wants to win
  • understand first why someone made a choice in the game before you yell at them, with understanding you can offer a better choice and they will be more open to the suggestion
  • Discuss the topic not the person heaving the discussion 
  • establish if the clan is competitive or casual

I hope that in some way we can improve the culture of our beloved game. Yes our game is having some growing pains but we can improve the culture one player at a time. 

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People change.  Sometimes they need a change of scenery.

Time passes.  As goals are accomplished perspective changes.

RL happens.  You get to where you don't have time or energy to lead and want someone else to do so.

 

All of the above are reasonable reasons to leave a clan or to change clans.  It happens.

 

I would love all my old friends to still be in the same clan and fighting together.  But things change, people change, the game changes, RL happens.  So folks scatter about some.

 

 

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Yeah, but why HATE?  Always wondered that when I see one of you guys in game.  Seems like a loaded clan name if you ask me.

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4 minutes ago, Sabene said:

People change.  Sometimes they need a change of scenery.

Time passes.  As goals are accomplished perspective changes.

RL happens.  You get to where you don't have time or energy to lead and want someone else to do so.

 

All of the above are reasonable reasons to leave a clan or to change clans.  It happens.

 

I would love all my old friends to still be in the same clan and fighting together.  But things change, people change, the game changes, RL happens.  So folks scatter about some.

 

 

 

 

 

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The fact that you are posting this, and posting it in GD instead of your own little sub forum, says everything about Clans in this game....:Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

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12 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Yeah, but why HATE?  Always wondered that when I see one of you guys in game.  Seems like a loaded clan name if you ask me.

The official clan name is Misanthrope. 

Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species. 

So it is a fun play on meaning. Hate as a tag. But for you to appreciate us, We hate the human species but the individual has merit and redemption. Look at what is done by people. People as a group are awful.  

 

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Just now, MEANN said:

The official clan name is Misanthrope. 

Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species. 

So it is a fun play on meaning. Hate as a tag. But for you to appreciate us, We hate the human species but the individual has merit and redemption. Look at what is done by people. People as a group are awful.  

 

Huh.  Never woulda thought that was were you were going with that.  Well played.

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12 minutes ago, awiggin said:

The fact that you are posting this, and posting it in GD instead of your own little sub forum, says everything about Clans in this game....:Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

what is a sub forum? it is a topic in which most of the community is affected by or with. 

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6 minutes ago, MEANN said:

The official clan name is Misanthrope. 

Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species. 

So it is a fun play on meaning. Hate as a tag. But for you to appreciate us, We hate the human species but the individual has merit and redemption. Look at what is done by people. People as a group are awful.  

 

I have a sentence in my signature that perfectly sums up the human species:

A Person is smart; people in general are stupid. "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in mass." ~??? <---It is paraphrased

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As far as I can tell the only reason to be in a Clan is the Clan Base Bonuses. Every thing else is pointless or a waste of time. 
For instance the Clan I'm in right now is so laid back I've hardly every conversed with another member. We like to keep things secret. 
But I can tell you that I Did Not enjoy my time in the bigger clans I was apart of. I found that just having certain Clan Tags would open you up for harassment and abuse from other players who didn't like members of your clan. Some of the things I was subject to was so bad that becoming a Solo Player was preferable. 

If I could build my own Clan Base I would probably be a member of a One Player Clan. 

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My clan, QNA, benefits the player. When the player does good, the clan does good. We are a casual clan.

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6 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

If I could build my own Clan Base I would probably be a member of a One Player Clan. 

As someone who inherited a Clan and was the sole active member for 6 months after a while the oil needed for some upgrades became too much. So now I opened to the public as a WOLF ally clan for solo players.

Edited by warheart1992

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I've been on the competitive scene a while, long before clans were a thing in game.  There does seem to be a increase in major clan destruction recently.

Having that perspective here are a few constants I have seen:

1.  Great players rise and fall like wheat.  Right now there is a lot of seriously players leaving or going on an extended break because they are unhappy with the simplification of the game.  This dumbing down admittedly is the biggest risk to me leaving the game.  I cant stand it.  A clan that wants to stand the test of time can not be build around a core of players. 

2.  Drama.  While drama might explode a clan to popularity, they all burn out just as quickly.

3.  Burn out.  Competitive gaming is intense.  To be successful as a clan you need fresh meat for the grinder.  In CUTE we got really serious about this since one of our issues in KNTAI was lack of recruits due to their naming convention that at the time required players to change their name.  I have seen very old clans fold because the core competitive guys just did their thing, and new guys were excluded.  Problem is everyone has an expiration date, old guys die off, there is a huge loss of skill that was never shared with your team.  To keep this brief we did a massive amount of training and reassigned players of good skills to CUTIE and CUTE to help with that knowledge transfer.  The single thing if I had to say that made the best difference for CUTIE and CUTE was breaking CUTER up and mixing all of the teams for clan wide mixed scrims.  This forced players to play against guys with better skills.  Afterwards we broke down mistakes, spent time in the training room teaching people how to shoot, and what ammo when and where.  There is not much difference between CUTE and CUTER these days, and CUTIE for being a "third tier clan" is strong as hell.  want your clan to live long, get serious about recruiting, and serious about getting everyone up to the standard of skill you expect.

4.  Community.  If your clan does not have Discord or something similar where you can admin the clan as well as allow the members to hang out, you really need to.  Developing interests goes a long way.  For example, CUTE is a know Weeb infestation, some us actually are not Weeb like myself, but it gives much of the clan something in common to discuss.  Community is the bedrock of longevity, dont skimp on it.

5.  Leadership.  Have it.  I have seen lots fall to lack of leadership, or absentee leadership.  I have seen friction of leadership that goes against the desire of a large segment of a clan.  The best thing I can say is manage the clan via a Republic and try to keep the Executive only actions to a minimum.  If a leader is going to die or be absent a changing of the guard must occur well prior.  The replacement must be respected in the community.  Dont rely on a single person to run the clan.  For example CUTE has something like 140 members, we have almost a dozen guys help admin all 5 sub clans.  Sure it makes for some red tape, but its not anyone's "job" to run the clan.  Good leadership often means creating that which your members want.

6.  Casual/Competitive.  Decide what you are.  Trying to sit on the fence will eventually shove something up your [edited].  I have experienced this constantly.  My first clan was a casual clan that happened to have a competitive team.  Issues arose quickly when the clan leadership tried to impose its will on what it saw as a clan with in the clan, as many, myself included in this did not communicate with clan mates who were not on the team.  There were many issues that stemmed from this, and eventually the team made the decision as individuals to create CUTE.  Even at CUTE we have struggled with this, though not as much as before since our leadership pretty much lets players do what they want.  We have always tried to keep casual separate from competitive though.  CUTIE was initially the casual side of the clan, until most of them decided they wanted to do clan battles.  So we created 2CUTE for a new casual clan, and helped CUTIE get good. 

I'm going to cut this off before it becomes a novel.  The above I believe are most of the major hurdles to running a clan.

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9 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I've been on the competitive scene a while, long before clans were a thing in game.  There does seem to be a increase in major clan destruction recently.

Right now there is a lot of seriously players leaving or going on an extended break because they are unhappy with the simplification of the game.  This dumbing down admittedly is the biggest risk to me leaving the game.  I cant stand it.  A clan that wants to stand the test of time can not be build around a core of players. 

 

This right there. I hazard some casual players could hit "battle" and then a RNG battle simulation takes place with no input and they'd be happy to just watch. They'd probably be just as happy to feed it like a slot machine to boost the chances they see a winning outcome. The removal of player intrinsic skill by the stupidification is a big turn off for those that enjoy challenges naturally.  The natural progression of this path will only lead to skilled gamers moving to another platform simply because they've been told that skill is no longer welcome.

Edited by SPAPtasticles

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4 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I've been on the competitive scene a while, long before clans were a thing in game.  There does seem to be a increase in major clan destruction recently.

Having that perspective here are a few constants I have seen:

6.  Casual/Competitive.  Decide what you are.  Trying to sit on the fence will eventually shove something up your [edited].  I have experienced this constantly.  My first clan was a casual clan that happened to have a competitive team.  Issues arose quickly when the clan leadership tried to impose its will on what it saw as a clan with in the clan, as many, myself included in this did not communicate with clan mates who were not on the team.  There were many issues that stemmed from this, and eventually the team made the decision as individuals to create CUTE.  Even at CUTE we have struggled with this, though not as much as before since our leadership pretty much lets players do what they want.  We have always tried to keep casual separate from competitive though.  CUTIE was initially the casual side of the clan, until most of them decided they wanted to do clan battles.  So we created 2CUTE for a new casual clan, and helped CUTIE get good. 

I'm going to cut this off before it becomes a novel.  The above I believe are most of the major hurdles to running a clan.

Number 6 is what drove the founding members of our clan to leave our old one (back in the waning days of supremacy, and start our own.  That fence sitting as you say, is a clan trying to have it's cake and eat it too.  All that happens is the weight loss (members leaving) from starvation (lack of ability to be competitive).  Had we been allowed to have tougher stricter standards on recruiting we could have been a real serious threat to both your clan and your old one KNTAI.  Miss those supremacy league games for sure.  Too bad wargaming had to come along and ruin that.

The only reason we aren't in KOTS right now is the burn out you refer to in your 3rd point.  Great post by the way. 

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I'll use baseball as an example, I played competitive ball for several years, in 4 years my team lost 1 game, the team had 15 players that were very good at what they did, guess what? We hated each other. We didn't talk, we didn't hang out together, we practiced, we played and we won, but it was toxic. Finally, after an incredible run at a provincial championship, we said our goodbyes, walked away from each other and went our separate ways. 

Even winning isn't enough to overcome a toxic environment, and sometimes winning makes the environment even more toxic. 

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Some excellent points that I, for one, will digest and contemplate on,  making sure my fellow clan commanders see them as well.    I am a firm believer that a clan has to have players who get along together, enjoy playing with each other, like to win,  only make constructive suggestions to improve (never personal attacks) and binding all that together with strong constant communications between all.

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2 hours ago, MEANN said:

Over the last few months to a year we have seen some of the larger clans at the top of the leader board melt.

Which clans?

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2 hours ago, MEANN said:

The official clan name is Misanthrope. 

Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species. 

So it is a fun play on meaning. Hate as a tag. But for you to appreciate us, We hate the human species but the individual has merit and redemption. Look at what is done by people. People as a group are awful.  

 

I'd join for that alone as I'm in complete agreement.

 

I left my clan because of many of the points you raised, however, it was myself changing that really drove me to leave. I felt I didn't fit in any more. To be fair, it wasn't them that caused me to feel this way, it was something that grew over time, I simply wasn't who I was when I joined them, and since they remained virtually the same, a change had to be made. I'm not attacking them in any way, we change as we need to, or are forced to, and then we have to find ways to adapt to life anew, I just felt I couldn't be who I am now within that clan. I wish them nothing but the best, honestly, there's a lot of really good people in SYN.

 

Part of my adapting is not playing right now. I need to see how much drive I have to play, to compete, in this game now. More, I'm suffering from a case of burnout due to the nature of the way WG drops events and competitions on us, there's virtually no time to breathe or play any other games if you're trying to complete all these things. I decided my mental state was more important than pixel things. For me, for this game to be fun, I have to be able to play my best and have fun. If I can't do both at the same time, then there's an issue. I'm trying to resolve that issue, with the understanding that it could be totally on me for existing in the first place.

 

Good post, my dude.

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What's overlooked:

There is a limited population of players available to clans.  Not every player wants to belong to a clan, some take breaks from clans, others never want to join any, ever.

So, clans just trade members back and forth, sometimes smaller clans get absorbed, sometimes large clans break up.  The pool of unaligned players doesn't really change much.

Smaller or social clans or guilds last because they are casual.  Competitive clans break-up burn out because of stress.  The thing is, clans think they have a bigger footprint in game than they do.  A population collapse in clans means nothing other than teh social dynamics in a given clan fell apart, and so on...

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3 hours ago, MEANN said:

Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species.

Well they had it coming.

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