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Tikonderoga17

DD population in Randoms?

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After waiting about 1.5 weeks and playing co-op and ranked to avoid issues with unbalanced CVs, I've decided to try random games again. There were 2 hotfixes after all. That's what I saw on in T5-T8 bracket:

  • Game 1: Battle level 6, 9 players per team, 0 dd
  • Game 2: Battle level 7, 12 players per team, 1 dd per team
  • Game 3: Level 7, 12 players, 4 dd per team
  • Game 4: Level 8, 12 players, 0 dd
  • Game 5: Level 7, 12 players, 3 dd per team
  • Game 6: Level 6, 12 players, 1 dd per team
  • Game 7: Level 7, 12 players, 1 dd per team

I totally understand, data set is too small to be representative, so I won't start crying sky is falling, but in 7 games there were 2 cases with no destroyers at all (don't remember ever seeing it in Randoms), and overall distribution by class was:

  • CV - 1.14 per team per game
  • BB - 4.29 per team per game
  • CL/CA - 4.71 per team per game
  • DD - 1.43 per team per game.

I had one game with only 9 players per side, hence the skewed data.

In comparison, 7 last games in Random on the same tier before the CV rework:

  • Game 1: Battle level 8, 12 players per team, 4 dd per team
  • Game 2: Level 6, 12 players, 4 dd per team
  • Game 3: Level 6, 12 players, 3 dd
  • Game 4: Level 7, 12 players, 4 dd
  • Game 5: Level 8, 12 players, 3 dd
  • Game 6: Level 8, 12 players, 3 dd
  • Game 7: Level 6, 12 players, 4 dd

Overall distribution:

  • CV - 0.28 per team per game
  • BB - 4.57
  • CL/CA - 3.57
  • DD - 3.57

I probably could gather more detailed statistics (I'm sure developers have it), but all and all it looks like we have an issue with DD population in random games (and we probably know why).

Questions to WG:

1. Can you please share data about per-class distribution before and after CV rework? I understand my sample size is too small.

2. If there's a shortage of DD in randoms, how do you plan to address it?

Edited by Tikonderoga17

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On 2/12/2019 at 5:39 PM, abyssofthetriffid said:

I just fought 7 enemy dds in my mikasa. 

I specifically mentioned - my observations are on t5-t8 brackets. T9-10 games could be different, as well as pre-CV tiers, like Mikasa would have.

 

Edited by Tikonderoga17

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Just now, Tikonderoga17 said:

I specifically mentioned - my observations are on t5-t8 brackets. T9-10 games could be different, as well as pre-CV tiers, like Mikasa would have.

Ive seen no issues with dds in any and every tier.

The only missing ships have been cvs.

Im guessing you are unhappy.

Chin up.

Stiff upper lip olde chap.

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The higher the tier the fewer DD are likely going to be playing due to:

Radar cruiser proliferation (most radar cruisers have brutal AA)

Carriers

Ball up meta means capping usually doesnt get support or even happen at all.

High tier DDs are screwed right now. It's not a friendly meta toward them right now. Consider they are also buffing radar ranges, durations, and nerfing flooding in the next patch.

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7 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

The higher the tier the fewer DD are likely going to be playing due to:

Radar cruiser proliferation (most radar cruisers have brutal AA)

Carriers

Ball up meta means capping usually doesnt get support or even happen at all.

High tier DDs are screwed right now. It's not a friendly meta toward them right now. Consider they are also buffing radar ranges, durations, and nerfing flooding in the next patch.

Well said. I concur.

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dCHCIEi.png

UHB8lqL.png

Some of them are definitely still playing.

Notice the kitakaze div in particular in the second image. One technique is to have heavy AA DDs wolfpack together and combine that heavy AA.

Of course overall, only WG knows the exact statistics on how many are playing, or not...

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Its really too early to tell how the population will be effected. CVs are new and there could be a sizeable amount of people who mostly play DD players trying them out or taking a break until things settle down.

 

A good site to monitor this is: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

He pulls the population and performance numbers every week and it can be copy and pasted right into excel for analysis. Unfortunately I dont think you will see anything statistically significant for at least a couple more weeks.

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12 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Its really too early to tell how the population will be effected. CVs are new and there could be a sizeable amount of people who mostly play DD players trying them out or taking a break until things settle down.

 

A good site to monitor this is: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

He pulls the population and performance numbers every week and it can be copy and pasted right into excel for analysis. Unfortunately I dont think you will see anything statistically significant for at least a couple more weeks.

Thanks for sharing this site. Even if the data is unstable now, it's still interesting to look at.

So DDs right now are being played less than cruisers and BBs. It will be interesting to see how the numbers change when the radar nerf goes live.

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28 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

and nerfing flooding in the next patch.

Actually their theory is with shorter flooding time that people will be more likely to just let it go and there will be more flooding damage overall even if the damage to individual ships is less.

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26 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Actually their theory is with shorter flooding time that people will be more likely to just let it go and there will be more flooding damage overall even if the damage to individual ships is less.

The value in a flood was never the damage.

I crunched the numbers on it back when it was first announced. A flood will do 1% more damage than a fire when a battleship uses BoS, FP, and all flags and modules for tank.

A flood punished bad DCP usage or forced one, meaning fires could follow up and allow cruisers or DDs to effectively whittle down their target that is otherwise completely invulnerable.

Flooding change is going to further devalue DD torp his, imo.

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1 hour ago, abyssofthetriffid said:

I just fought 7 enemy dds in my mikasa.

I call [edited].. considering there is a hard cap of 4 DDs per side..

 

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1 minute ago, soko99 said:

I call [edited].. considering there is a hard cap of 4 DDs per side

Its not a hard cap, the only hard cap that has ever existed was on CV. It's a "soft cap".

Ive played a few low tier games with 7 DD. I dont blame them since CV rework is especially hard on DDs.

However, I have played FAR MORE high tier games with 8 bb per side. Pre rework and post rework.

A bb soft cap of 4 was needed before a DD soft cap.

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middle tiers the AA ratings on DDs suck, so CVs at those tiers will go after them first every time.

Until wargaming hard limits CVs to 1 per match at all tiers dds will be less seen the higher tier you go.

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3 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Its not a hard cap, the only hard cap that has ever existed was on CV. It's a "soft cap".

Ive played a few low tier games with 7 DD. I dont blame them since CV rework is especially hard on DDs.

However, I have played FAR MORE high tier games with 8 bb per side. Pre rework and post rework.

A bb soft cap of 4 was needed before a DD soft cap.

 

5 minutes ago, abyssofthetriffid said:

14 dds.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Update_0.7.10

Matchmaker In response to numerous requests from players, the forthcoming Update will introduce a "soft" limit on the number of destroyers in Random Battles to a maximum of four per team. The rule will be triggered if matchmaking for a battle takes less than three minutes for the first player in the queue for that battle. If the timer passes that point, the "old" matchmaking rules will apply.

 

I stand corrected.. it was a SOFT cap.. not a hard cap.

Edited by soko99

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1 hour ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

dCHCIEi.png

 

Some of them are definitely still playing.

Notice the kitakaze div in particular in the second image. One technique is to have heavy AA DDs wolfpack together and combine that heavy AA.

Of course overall, only WG knows the exact statistics on how many are playing, or not...

It's an interesting outlier, considering soft cap introduced on DD per team few months ago. AFAIK, in normal circumstances you can only get 4 DD per team.

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56 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

It will be interesting to see how the numbers change when the radar nerf goes live.

What nerf? They are increasing range and duration for the ship using it and putting a 6 sec delay in for other ships (they usually took that time to aim their guns anyway). 

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3 minutes ago, Camo68 said:

What nerf? They are increasing range and duration for the ship using it and putting a 6 sec delay in for other ships (they usually took that time to aim their guns anyway). 

That delay stacks.

Now it will be 6 seconds to see the target

And then you have to spend 6 seconds or whatever aiming your guns.

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Just now, Carrier_Ikoma said:

That delay stacks.

Now it will be 6 seconds to see the target

And then you have to spend 6 seconds or whatever aiming your guns.

nope.. cause you get the ping that radar is active and the minimap location so you can start aiming before it becomes visible.

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2 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

Well, we'll see. One way or another, it will be interesting to see how the update affects population stats.

more BBs..  like most other changes.. 

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54 minutes ago, soko99 said:

I call [edited].. considering there is a hard cap of 4 DDs per side..

 

There is no hard cap of 4 DDs per side.

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