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Herr_Reitz

Dont worry about Belfast getting buffs...

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Just now, DrHolmes52 said:

I am a little confused.  Are people complaining that a ship that WG is looking at (possibly) nerfing isn't getting any buffs?

Herr_Reitz is always asking for Belfast buffs (nearly always, torps). 

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17 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

You own and use a ship regularly you have only 150 battles in?

I don't play it much in PvP anymore because it is Overpowered. It feels abusive and I don't get kicks from playing abusable ships. For the same reason I rarely, if ever, take my Nikolai into PvP. Likewise my Gremy. Or my Musashi. Or all the Overpowered ships of which I have all of them. These ships, and the Belfast is one of them, cause PROBLEMS by merely existing and need to be reigned in.

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

I've got 890 matches in mine, and I agree it's straight OP.  I'm a lifetime 58% player, but I am rolling with a 65% WR and 61k average damage in Belfast.  For a more reasonably T7, my ARP Nachi, I am pulling a 60% WR, and only 51k average damage.

Seal clubbing is a thing, that's why you do it.

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57 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

I don't play it much in PvP anymore because it is Overpowered. It feels abusive and I don't get kicks from playing abusable ships. For the same reason I rarely, if ever, take my Nikolai into PvP. Likewise my Gremy. Or my Musashi. Or all the Overpowered ships of which I have all of them. These ships, and the Belfast is one of them, cause PROBLEMS by merely existing and need to be reigned in.

You're the same guy that was arguing with me a few months back that radar is not OP cause you NEED it on your DM. You should make up your mind what is OP and what isn't. Belfast is OP cause it can radar but DM isn't?

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4 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Belfast is OP cause it can radar but DM isn't?

Belfast is OP because it *combines* Radar with long lasting smoke. The DM is *not* overpowered because it has to expose itself to make full use of it's own radar (where a Belfast need not, having ~3 km of usable space between it's in-smoke spotting distance and the extent of it's Radar's range). If you gave the DM a Gearing's smoke, there would be a serious problem with that mutant ship, but as it stands it does not, ergo, is not.

Edited by _RC1138

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

Belfast is OP because it *combines* Radar with long lasting smoke. The DM is *not* overpowered because it has to expose itself to make full use of it's own radar (where a Belfast need not, having ~3 km of usable space between it's in-smoke spotting distance and the extent of it's Radar's range). If you gave the DM a Gearing's smoke, there would be a serious problem with that mutant ship, but as it stands it does not, ergo, is not.

Yes because DMs do not hide behind islands while radaring they sit out in the open. Mino has a radar range that far extends past its detectability range, has smoke, torps, and a heal. That is OP not the Belfast with it's mere 25 second radar duration and only 8.5 km range. Like I already pointed out that ship has not been for sale for a long long time and those that have it are experienced players seal  clubbing with it. Naturally they will have good numbers and it has zero to do with the ship. those same players will pull good numbers in any ship they are in.

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49 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Yes because DMs do not hide behind islands while radaring they sit out in the open. Mino has a radar range that far extends past its detectability range, has smoke, torps, and a heal. That is OP not the Belfast with it's mere 25 second radar duration and only 8.5 km range. Like I already pointed out that ship has not been for sale for a long long time and those that have it are experienced players seal  clubbing with it. Naturally they will have good numbers and it has zero to do with the ship. those same players will pull good numbers in any ship they are in.

And when a DM hides behind a mountain of radar it is NOT contributing to damage. You can cry all you want, but the *fact* between the comparison you brought up and the reality is just wrong: A Belfast sitting in smoke and radaring is FAR more influential than a DM hiding behind an island and doing so because BOTH allow teammates to shoot at their target but the DM is unable to add in it's DPS while the Belfast *can*. And as far as the rest of you DD mafia stuff: The Mino has no HE, thus no fires/reduced damage against angled targets (where a Belfast + IFHE can damage EVERY ship's bow in the game regardless of angle), the Mino is about *double* the size of the Belfast and about on par with the DM despite having DD quality armor (but not the free, overpen only damage from BB guns), and the Mino *CAN NOT* mount radar and smoke at the same time. Which is a key thing. A mino mounting radar instead of smoke is playing a SUPER dangerous game and is more than well balanced by the fact it can be devstriked more easily than ANY ship in the game currently.

You are wrong about this, and assuming you own one, your attitude is borne solely of selfishness in not wanting *your* toy nerfed. Well I have that toy too, and I think it needs a good hard nerf to bring it back in line. As do the others.

58 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Seal clubbing is a thing, that's why you do it.

You don't seem to understand that seal clubbing is not what makes a ship overpowered; it's also how well it UP TIERS. That's why the Musashi is overpowered: because it UP TIERS better than it's actual tier mates (specifically, there are fewer advantages a Yamato holds over a Musashi than a Yamato holds over an Izumo). The Belfast up-Tiers BETTER than other T7 Cruisers as it combines what is NOW a T8 gun-layout, performance, and ability (a la the Cleveland at T8), with armor above that of it's at-Tier mate Fiji, with smoke *AND* HE, and Radar which typically starts at T8, AND able to combine radar and smoke *AND* Sonar, all at a tier where that is unheard of. AND as if that wasn't enough, it literally GET"S +1 tier's upgrade slot, cementing just how strong it is at being mid, even bottom, tiered.

The same holds true for other Overpowered Premiums: The KA is just the *tree* T4, slightly nerfed, and placed at T3. The Gremy is a *better* version of most Tier 6 Gnevy class boats then downtiered to T5. The Nikolai has the Krupp values of some of the T*8* BB's. The Kutz has the range, DPM, and Torps that rival some of the T*10* cruisers. That's what makes these all Overpowered: not their ability to punish below tiers; most ships can do that (go take an Iowa, tree ship, against a Colorado), it's their ability to compete on equal or even, at times, BETTER terms with those ships HIGHER in tier.

Edited by _RC1138

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

It doesn't need torps at all.  To be balanced, I think it just needs to have radar removed.  The ability to crush DDs early in the game is what gives Belfast so much influence on a match.  Take her radar away, and she's not the hunter killer she is now, she's just a damage farmer that has some good support capability.

Well that is your assessment, no less valid than mine.

As the removal of radar takes away a consumable then I guess you could say replace that consumable with a similar one that the Tier VII Fiji has could be an option.

However, I went for torps because I thought the actual damage from 10% hit rate torps would be less than a heal that keeps her in the fight longer.

RC idea about removing radar and changing the smoke deployment was another option.

 

Great thing is, if we are finally balancing premium ships considered OP, that is the positive element for me.

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

Herr_Reitz is always asking for Belfast buffs (nearly always, torps). 

Standard or Deepwater?

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2 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

RC idea about removing radar and changing the smoke deployment was another option.

I didn't say remove Radar. I said just change the smoke to RN DD smoke (so 10 second dispersion, 40 second lasting smoke, w/ faster reloading) OR remove the T8 upgrade slot. IMO the radar, even with smoke, is fine, as long as that smoke is EXTREMELY short like the RN DD's. And she is supposed to be a DD hunter (she lacks the smooth arcs and extended range of the KM or RU CA/CL's to be a no-smoke BB harasser), and radar is vital to that ability. It's just it's combination with long lasting smoke that is problematic. Give her the short, 40 second smoke and it's good for break contact when the heat get's turned up, but not long enough to sit like a far and command a whole sector of the battlefield, which is very much what she can do now.

Edited by _RC1138

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1 hour ago, _RC1138 said:

I didn't say remove Radar. I said just change the smoke to RN DD smoke (so 10 second dispersion, 40 second lasting smoke, w/ faster reloading) OR remove the T8 upgrade slot. IMO the radar, even with smoke, is fine, as long as that smoke is EXTREMELY short like the RN DD's. And she is supposed to be a DD hunter, and radar is vital to that ability. It's just it's combination with long lasting smoke that is problematic.

Apologies for misquoting - unintentional. :Smile_honoring:

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23 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

Really? It seems more like a strong ship not getting an unneeded buff to me. But your attempt to stir the pot is a d o r a b l e.

Meanwhile, the unnecessary GC nerf storms forward with universal community support. :Smile_smile:

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5 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

And when a DM hides behind a mountain of radar it is NOT contributing to damage. You can cry all you want, but the *fact* between the comparison you brought up and the reality is just wrong: A Belfast sitting in smoke and radaring is FAR more influential than a DM hiding behind an island and doing so because BOTH allow teammates to shoot at their target but the DM is unable to add in it's DPS while the Belfast *can*. And as far as the rest of you DD mafia stuff: The Mino has no HE, thus no fires/reduced damage against angled targets (where a Belfast + IFHE can damage EVERY ship's bow in the game regardless of angle), the Mino is about *double* the size of the Belfast and about on par with the DM despite having DD quality armor (but not the free, overpen only damage from BB guns), and the Mino *CAN NOT* mount radar and smoke at the same time. Which is a key thing. A mino mounting radar instead of smoke is playing a SUPER dangerous game and is more than well balanced by the fact it can be devstriked more easily than ANY ship in the game currently.

You are wrong about this, and assuming you own one, your attitude is borne solely of selfishness in not wanting *your* toy nerfed. Well I have that toy too, and I think it needs a good hard nerf to bring it back in line. As do the others.

You don't seem to understand that seal clubbing is not what makes a ship overpowered; it's also how well it UP TIERS. That's why the Musashi is overpowered: because it UP TIERS better than it's actual tier mates (specifically, there are fewer advantages a Yamato holds over a Musashi than a Yamato holds over an Izumo). The Belfast up-Tiers BETTER than other T7 Cruisers as it combines what is NOW a T8 gun-layout, performance, and ability (a la the Cleveland at T8), with armor above that of it's at-Tier mate Fiji, with smoke *AND* HE, and Radar which typically starts at T8, AND able to combine radar and smoke *AND* Sonar, all at a tier where that is unheard of. AND as if that wasn't enough, it literally GET"S +1 tier's upgrade slot, cementing just how strong it is at being mid, even bottom, tiered.

The same holds true for other Overpowered Premiums: The KA is just the *tree* T4, slightly nerfed, and placed at T3. The Gremy is a *better* version of most Tier 6 Gnevy class boats then downtiered to T5. The Nikolai has the Krupp values of some of the T*8* BB's. The Kutz has the range, DPM, and Torps that rival some of the T*10* cruisers. That's what makes these all Overpowered: not their ability to punish below tiers; most ships can do that (go take an Iowa, tree ship, against a Colorado), it's their ability to compete on equal or even, at times, BETTER terms with those ships HIGHER in tier.

I do own a Belfast and I have played it less than 10 times in 2 years cause I don't enjoy seal clubbing. A Belfast has to practically be in the cap to radar effectively and it only lasts 25 seconds.. Hardly OP. The Belfast up tiers poorly. It has a very short gun range compared to T8 and T 9 ships. There is no such thing as an OP premium. The players using them are what makes the difference. They can nerf Belfast to the ground for all I care I only play T10. 

Edited by Vaffu

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8 hours ago, Vaffu said:

Seal clubbing is a thing, that's why you do it.

LOL yeah, that's what it is.  Or maybe, just maybe, the ship is overpowered whether you can take advantage of it or not.

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54 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

LOL yeah, that's what it is.  Or maybe, just maybe, the ship is overpowered whether you can take advantage of it or not.

It's not OP and even tho I own it I haven't played it more than 10x in the last few years play it cause seal clubbing is not my thing.

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It is OP.  I win at about 5% more than I do with my other T7 cruisers, and do 5-10k more damage on average.  It's significantly better than any other T7 cruiser.  That's the exact definition of overpowered.  If you don't play it very often, then you are not qualified to comment on whether the ship is overpowered or not.  *I* play it a lot, and I assure you, it's overpowered.

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Belfast is definitely OP, not sure why anybody would be surprised it was not buffed.

Salem on the other hand is one of the worse performing T10 Cruisers so very surprising it did not get buffs when Stalingrad did get buffed.

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15 hours ago, Vaffu said:

There is no such thing as an OP premium.

You have to be a troll. You've never played a Nikolai (I own one), a KA (I own one), or the Kutz (I own one) because if you'd had you'd see how just out of the park that statement is.

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26 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

You have to be a troll. You've never played a Nikolai (I own one), a KA (I own one), or the Kutz (I own one) because if you'd had you'd see how just out of the park that statement is.

I have played against all those ships. I do not need to own one to know there is nothing OP about them.

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Just now, Vaffu said:

I have played against all those ships. I do not need to own one to know there is nothing OP about them.

Just so we're 100% clear, Wargaming, the actual *developer* who made them and can see all in game stats, disagrees with you, that's why they stopped SELLING them. So you can sit there and be confident that because you can sink them, that makes them fair, but you are *empirically* wrong as people who both own them and *created them* know you to be wrong.

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3 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Just so we're 100% clear, Wargaming, the actual *developer* who made them and can see all in game stats, disagrees with you, that's why they stopped SELLING them. So you can sit there and be confident that because you can sink them, that makes them fair, but you are *empirically* wrong as people who both own them and *created them* know you to be wrong.

Or they stopped selling them so whiners would not whine. Cause someone always has something to whine about in WoWs. I give in to my kids many times just so they stop whining.

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10 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Or they stopped selling them so whiners would not whine. Cause someone always has something to whine about in WoWs. I give in to my kids many times just so they stop whining.

You're wrong about that too. Often times those premiums were ceased being sold LONG before the implications of their existence came to a head. Nikolai was sold *once* before it was pulled from sale; not nearly long enough to see the implications. The Kutz was pulled after about 4-5 months, also before the implications were seen (it was considered *under* powered at release). The true damage done but these overpowered premiums is typically felt much later, even if the signs are there early on. No, you are just plain wrong about this on every conceivable level.

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8 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

You're wrong about that too. Often times those premiums were ceased being sold LONG before the implications of their existence came to a head. Nikolai was sold *once* before it was pulled from sale; not nearly long enough to see the implications. The Kutz was pulled after about 4-5 months, also before the implications were seen (it was considered *under* powered at release). The true damage done but these overpowered premiums is typically felt much later, even if the signs are there early on. No, you are just plain wrong about this on every conceivable level.

There's nothing to gain by arguing with him about it.  His mind is made up.

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On 2/13/2019 at 5:56 AM, _RC1138 said:

I don't play it much in PvP anymore because it is Overpowered. It feels abusive and I don't get kicks from playing abusable ships. For the same reason I rarely, if ever, take my Nikolai into PvP. Likewise my Gremy. Or my Musashi. Or all the Overpowered ships of which I have all of them. These ships, and the Belfast is one of them, cause PROBLEMS by merely existing and need to be reigned in.

Then sell yours, problem solved.

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:52 PM, MrDeaf said:

and it got a concealment nerf via no longer getting 12% from CE :Smile_trollface:

And nobody batted an eye.  GC moving up to T6 and everybody loses their minds.

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