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Herr_Reitz

Dont worry about Belfast getting buffs...

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Not sure I understand the issue.  Is there something wrong with the only RN cruiser that can slot smoke and radar not getting a 1.5km buff to radar?  I guess I'd be upset if the t8-10 ships could do both, but they can't.

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50 minutes ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

It sounds like you really want me to start playing this ship.

Why wouldn't I?

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So what is the reasoning behind raising the radar ranges to 10km? 

Any and all concealment expert is now 10% across the board, no matter the ship type. What is their intent here?

Everyone can dare I say, "agree" (or agree to disagree) that radar has its faults one way or another. 

Is it to appease the players who cannot remember the various numeric ranges of radar ranges per tier/ship? or is it just easier to calculate with rounded numbers with data and extrapolate them.

 

I don't think raising the range of Radar will help anyone. If anything, I'd rather see forum posts about why Radar can see through solid objects, and assured spotting assures your ship being spotted even with a mountain between them. I just see "basic" fundamental game mechanic/design not being addressed. If this was adjusted to disallow such magic radar/spotting. Then I'm quite confident that even Radar goes up to 15km in the next year, people won't object as much.

 

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1 hour ago, ExploratorOne said:

In-game already, that is the Edinburgh.  Belfast swapped torps and heal for Radar and HE...

"The Edinburgh-class light cruisers HMS Belfast and HMS Edinburgh were ordered by the British Admiralty in 1936 and were a development of the Southampton-class light cruiser. "

http://maritime.elettra.co.uk/hmsbelfast/history/

Although my comment was aimed more at removing the combination of the radar and smoke which gave the Belfast its OP status, I appreciate the info (got me reading about the ships again). :Smile_honoring:

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2 hours ago, Skpstr said:

Heh, seems like a big middle finger chucked at the "no changes to premiums" crowd...:Smile_veryhappy:

Nerfs to premiums based on game-wide mechanic changes, or changes to common ship components (e.g. AA mounts) pretty much existed since the start of OBT, when they nerfed smoke into the ground, making Sims much less potent. Then in the first half a year after start of OBT they nerfed AA, which affected Yubari.

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22 minutes ago, LowSpeed_US said:

So what is the reasoning behind raising the radar ranges to 10km? 

Compensation for changing radar spotting mechanics.

That's why Belfast didnt even need a radar range buff, it can pretty much murder DDs solo, no help from teammates required.

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1 hour ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

My Belfast is a Port Queen since the nerfs as far as using her in Randoms is concerned. I was under the mistaken belief that they would reconsider after all the noise the community put up before and after the 1st nerf, but no, they bowed to pressure because a whole bunch of potatoes complained she was still overpowered after the 1st nerf. I found her to be a fragile glass cannon, even with radar and smoke and her original characteristics. She is map situational use-wise and spawn location wise, and does not have the wheels to move behind cover fast enough on most maps to make a difference. I do much better in Edinburgh, her sister ship, at T8 without HE, regardless of which map I am on. I have long held that Belfast should have been a premium T8 with a heal and HE and her North Cape look, not the late 50s refit that she is. My wallet is closed for now

I believe she does more damage than the Fiji (her 'tier' sister - not her real sister the Edinburgh (thanks @ExploratorOne)) and I am inclined to think her WR could be tied to her smoke/radar combo being a great advantage to the team. I haven't looked but I thought her average stats showed her to be a good/strong ship(?)

 

Of course with the new radar mechanics, if a ship is hiding behind an island when it radars, it will not get the free hit and its team may not either (before the DD escapes). For best results the ship with radar, will have to react to the ship it has highlighted so be out in the open and a target for other ships (possibly). Whereas this will not bother the Belfast that carries around its cover with it (smoke), that may be the case why the other ships that have to choose radar or smoke, have had their range increased (especially as the RN ships can be a bit squishy).

It seems fair (to me) that she has not had her range extended.

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ken-jeong-small-list.jpg

But seriously though, Belfast doesn't need a longer radar range.

Feel glad you still get to keep the smoke as well as radar.

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Smoke + HE is too strong for a cruiser as it is - the Flint stays reasonable because it has 127mm guns and short range but the Belfast can basically melt ships to the waterline. The dang thing has smoke, hydro, radar and the tier 8 module - it has no business at tier 7. 

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2 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

Me too. Give it RN DD Smoke while they're at it and it becomes fair/new type of playstyle.

Belfast does not stop fast enough for it to be made that way.

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4 hours ago, Vaffu said:

Belfast does not stop fast enough for it to be made that way.

True that... if you don't go full stop before you want to smoke, or make a hard turn port or starboard, even with extended smoke screen you'll slide out of your own smoke... I think it's like at/below 19 or 21kts is the safe smoke time. 

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7 hours ago, Vaffu said:

They did not change the ship they changed game mechanics so it is not a change to the premium per say. Just like when they changed the smoke mechanic, it was a nerf to Belfast in a way but not a nerf directly to it.

And that is why everyone is more or less cool with the change as it affects a premium ship. It did not change the ship as purchased per-se. The game evolved.

Edited by thebigblue
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13 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

True that... if you don't go full stop before you want to smoke, or make a hard turn port or starboard, even with extended smoke screen you'll slide out of your own smoke... I think it's like at/below 19 or 21kts is the safe smoke time. 

I don’t believe the dd smoke lasts as long as Belfast either... 

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28 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

I don’t believe the dd smoke lasts as long as Belfast either... 

It doesn't. I believe the RN DDs smoke only lasts 40 seconds.

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16 hours ago, Vaffu said:

Belfast does not stop fast enough for it to be made that way.

You'd have to plan and play it smarter. Something I am all for.

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34 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

You'd have to plan and play it smarter. Something I am all for.

You have to plan and play it smart now to use the smokescreen. I never use smoke when playing my Belfast simply because unless you are almost completely stopped you will outrun your smoke anyway. I mostly kite in it.

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2 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

You have to plan and play it smart now to use the smokescreen. I never use smoke when playing my Belfast simply because unless you are almost completely stopped you will outrun your smoke anyway. I mostly kite in it.

Never had that problem in my Belfast and I've got upwards of 150 matches in it. That's why I am all for it getting a nerf, I can speak 100% from experience it is overpowered and it's the length of both the dispersion and deposit of its smoke. Give it RN DD smoke and it becomes balanced.

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2 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Never had that problem in my Belfast and I've got upwards of 150 matches in it. That's why I am all for it getting a nerf, I can speak 100% from experience it is overpowered and it's the length of both the dispersion and deposit of its smoke. Give it RN DD smoke and it becomes balanced.

It is not OP that is nonsense. The players that have them play it well because they are more experienced players that have been around a long time but the ship itself is nothing special.  The guns are not very powerful and the range is limited, the radar is short duration and short range and it has no torps.  People are scared of them because of the radar which is easily defeated by staying 8.5 km from it..  I have  950 matches in and it is in no way OP.

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7 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

It is not OP that is nonsense. The players that have them play it well because they are more experienced players that have been around a long time but the ship itself is nothing special.

I am one of those players: you are wrong, it is straight overpowered. It is basically the old T6 Cleveland, at T7, with smoke and radar. There is very little that can counter even a poorly played Belfast as it can basically be played with total freedom: it can DD hunt thanks to radar, good concealment, fast turns, and Sonar. It can spam/burn down BB's thanks to it's decent range, 12, accurate fast reloading HE slingling Main Battery, with just high enough angles to allow you to use cover but not SO meteoric that they enter low earth orbit. It can cruiser hunt thanks to still having great AP performance and fast turret rotation, and, again, smoke + radar.

If you switch it's smoke from the current to RN DD smoke it can still do SOME of those things, but at the expense of longevity, which is the key advantage the Belfast has; whereas say the Fiji gains some longevity through heal, it can still be dev-striked or severely wounded. The problem with the Belfast is thanks to having HE, it keeps enemies from pressing it, and smoke makes getting hit in the first place a rarity.

The other option is to take away her access to the T8 slot which for some baffling reason she has, but I think the DD smoke replace makes for a more interesting change.

The only ships I give way to in a Belfast are BB's that are willing to charge it, or if I'm bottom tiered, USN CA's/Missouri. But baring those, everything melts to a Belfast and she needs to be reigned in. Again, I own and use it regularly and am 100% comfortable with admitting it is straight overpowered.

Edited by _RC1138
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20 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I have the Belfast and have absolutely no issue with this.

Although I don't really see it as a change as it is remaining the same. Remove the radar and give it Fiji torps - now that is a change and one that addresses the reason it was considered OP.

It doesn't need torps at all.  To be balanced, I think it just needs to have radar removed.  The ability to crush DDs early in the game is what gives Belfast so much influence on a match.  Take her radar away, and she's not the hunter killer she is now, she's just a damage farmer that has some good support capability.

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3 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

I am one of those players: you are wrong, it is straight overpowered. It is basically the old T6 Cleveland, at T7, with smoke and radar. There is very little that can counter even a poorly played Belfast as it can basically be played with total freedom: it can DD hunt thanks to radar, good concealment, fast turns, and Sonar. It can spam/burn down BB's thanks to it's decent range, 12, accurate fast reloading HE slingling Main Battery, with just high enough angles to allow you to use cover but not SO meteoric that they enter low earth orbit. It can cruiser hunt thanks to still having great AP performance and fast turret rotation, and, again, smoke + radar.

If you switch it's smoke from the current to RN DD smoke it can still do SOME of those things, but at the expense of longevity, which is the key advantage the Belfast has; whereas say the Fiji gains some longevity through heal, it can still be dev-striked or severely wounded. The problem with the Belfast is thanks to having HE, it keeps enemies from pressing it, and smoke makes getting hit in the first place a rarity.

The other option is to take away her access to the T8 slot which for some baffling reason she has, but I think the DD smoke replace makes for a more interesting change.

The only ships I give way to in a Belfast are BB's that are willing to charge it, or if I'm bottom tiered, USN CA's/Missouri. But baring those, everything melts to a Belfast and she needs to be reigned in. Again, I own and use it regularly and am 100% comfortable with admitting it is straight overpowered.

You own and use a ship regularly you have only 150 battles in? The same player that has big numbers in a Belfast will have big numbers in any ship they play  while seal clubbing. I disagree with your assessment entirely. They do well in it because they are playing against relatively new players.

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2 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

It doesn't need torps at all.  To be balanced, I think it just needs to have radar removed.  The ability to crush DDs early in the game is what gives Belfast so much influence on a match.  Take her radar away, and she's not the hunter killer she is now, she's just a damage farmer that has some good support capability.

Belfast takes huge risks when using it's radar near caps. 8.5 km radar range with no heal in a LC.  Most people using them hide behind an island spamming HE at BBs and that is why they can rack up damage. Very rarely do you see one near a cap without an island for cover effectively rendering their guns useless.

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6 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

You own and use a ship regularly you have only 150 battles in? The same player that has big numbers in a Belfast will have big numbers in any ship they play  while seal clubbing. I disagree with your assessment entirely. They do well in it because they are playing against relatively new players.

I've got 890 matches in mine, and I agree it's straight OP.  I'm a lifetime 58% player, but I am rolling with a 65% WR and 61k average damage in Belfast.  For a more reasonably T7, my ARP Nachi, I am pulling a 60% WR, and only 51k average damage.

Edited by crzyhawk
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I guess smoke, radar and hydro isn't enough for it.

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I am a little confused.  Are people complaining that a ship that WG is looking at (possibly) nerfing isn't getting any buffs?

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