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Prkl8r

Wait, so RU BBs barely have a gimmick?

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So the RU BBs, none of which actually existed, gimmicks are limited damage control and meh range. Aside from the damage control that's barely a gimmick.

 

Meanwhile RN BBs, a navy that actually was, is the most gimmicked line in the game. Paper armor, good HE, AP that only does damage to unarmored areas, extra heal, stealth, super low HP, and a T10 without aircraft.

 

Cool.

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4 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

So the RU BBs, none of which actually existed, gimmicks are limited damage control and meh range. Aside from the damage control that's barely a gimmick.

 

Meanwhile RN BBs, a navy that actually was, is the most gimmicked line in the game. Paper armor, good HE, AP that only does damage to unarmored areas, extra heal, stealth, super low HP, and a T10 without aircraft.

 

Cool.

You forgot LRR! Low resolution radar.....

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1 minute ago, awiggin said:

You forgot LRR! Low resolution radar.....

Deep Water Radar

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Russian BB no need gimmick.  Russian BB has Stalinium armor.  Russian BB has railguns.

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Gimmicks include very strong deck plating, laser accuracy at close range, a rapid re-use damage control consumable, and anti-BB radar at higher tiers. They’re gimmicky as hell.

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They might be omega chonkers when it comes to the armor department (edit: at least in side plating) and the guns (at least at closer ranges), but as Notser showed in his video the citadels seem to be...questionable in some of them.

Some of them literally have their citadels sides completely exposed outside of the ship disguised as some of the hull plating. The plating itself might be chunky but it being that exposed will most likely make them extremely vulnerable if they give broadside, and considering how they seem to be designed with "quick" rudder shift but massive turning circles it seems to me that they're going to be masters at angling but if they show any side whatsoever they are going to get punished hard.

 

The way i see it, good armor made for angling and good guns made for close range but they have very vulnerable sides if they go broadside to an enemy ship in a close range situation.

They also seem to be, at least for now, rather vulnerable to long range shots, and considering their lower than average gun range you could probably out range once pretty easily (in most cases).

Well this is just how i see it, frankly i can't see that magic radar being that useful, we already have CVs spotting everything within the first 40 seconds of a match so... 

Edited by Saidalphon
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14 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

gimmicks are limited damage control and meh range

HA! So the real reason behind the flooding changes aren't because of the CV rework, but because RU BBs will have a high chance of having no DCP later in a match to counter the current 60% of HP DoT from flooding.

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They have the gaydar and they have Oktobers DCP. Plenty gimmicky for me. 

 

I'm expecting quite a bit. Like the cruisers, they can be played exceptionally well but are punishable

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They have special DCP consumables, very tough (unusually un-historic) armor, and some weird acuracy change within a certain range.  I don’t know what you mean by “gimmick” as in consumables or physical character.

While they do have some Asashio-by-guideline style Radar, I much rather prefer having DFAA for ease-of-use/understanding, relativeness after 8.0, experimentation on a line known to have strange AA platforms (Example: Molotov) and what driving a BB would feel like without the need for Cruisers or Destroyers to act as AA defense.

Edited by Airglide2

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Im quite happy with the armor scheme so far. They have good armor but exposed citadel. We should have more BBs like this. 

 

Also that DCP is really nice. 

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25 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

HA! So the real reason behind the flooding changes aren't because of the CV rework, but because RU BBs will have a high chance of having no DCP later in a match to counter the current 60% of HP DoT from flooding.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. 

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For those currently complaining about the CV rework making CVs too powerful - don't worry.  Russian BBs will either have Ticonderoga class AA (in which case you can either play one or division with one), or they will be just as vulnerable to planes as other ships (in which case planes will be nerfed).:Smile-_tongue:

Edit:  Nerfing of planes will last until Soviet CV line is introduced.

Edited by zubalkabir

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I have a long history with Wargaming... If I was a guessing man, I'd say they will need no gimmicks.    

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53 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

So the RU BBs, none of which actually existed, gimmicks are limited damage control and meh range. Aside from the damage control that's barely a gimmick.

 

Meanwhile RN BBs, a navy that actually was, is the most gimmicked line in the game. Paper armor, good HE, AP that only does damage to unarmored areas, extra heal, stealth, super low HP, and a T10 without aircraft.

 

Cool.

The Monarch did not exist. It's some kind of small version of the Lion.

 The Lion did not exist. It's class was planned and then scrapped. Vanguard was built instead and was the last waste of steel of the war.

The Conqueror did not exist.

You were saying?

After the King George V the "navy that actually was" actually wasn't. Need I remind you that:

Montana, Izumo, F Der Grosse, Kurfurst, Alsace, Republique, Bourgogne, Zao, Ibuki, Azuma, Yoshino, Hindenberg, Roon, Minotaur, Stalingrad, Kronshtadt, Henri, Saint Louis (the french one), Charles Martel, Grozovoi, Khabarovsk, Harugumo, Kitakaze, and Z52 never existed either.

If you're looking for a real navy that existed to complain about. Compare Gearing to Harugumo. Gearing is almost worthless in the current meta.

Or Daring to Harugumo. Daring is even more worthless.

Just "my navy I like somewhat existed" is not really a valid criticism of a ship line, especially one like the RU BB where it feels like WG is going out of their way to make a BB line that are rewarding skilled play.

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55 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

HA! So the real reason behind the flooding changes aren't because of the CV rework, but because RU BBs will have a high chance of having no DCP later in a match to counter the current 60% of HP DoT from flooding.

 

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1 hour ago, Prkl8r said:

So the RU BBs, none of which actually existed,

This is false. Every BB in the Russian Tree, Premium and Tech Tree, is a legitimate design. Unlike, you know, Monarch, Conqueror, Turenne, Republique or Großer Kurfürst.

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21 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Montana, Izumo, F Der Grosse, Kurfurst, Alsace, Republique, Bourgogne, Zao, Ibuki, Azuma, Yoshino, Hindenberg, Roon, Minotaur, Stalingrad, Kronshtadt, Henri, Saint Louis (the french one), Charles Martel, Grozovoi, Khabarovsk, Harugumo, Kitakaze, and Z52 never existed either.

Behold, HMCS Ontario C32 - Minotaur-class light cruiser. Granted she's an "improved design" in game but the class did exist. 

HMCS_Ontario_SLV_AllanGreen.jpg

Edited by RicketyEdge

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I watched the Notser vid about them and I was astonished how he complained about the citadels. Geez people, the IJN still has citadels like that you know and I haven't seen any 'IJN BBs are underpowered' threads recently. Heck, I actually brawl with the things in co-op and manage to keep my citadels safe fairly often (though not all of the time, I do make mistakes). Quite a few of the Russian designs a real enough, just never built or fully completed. Oh, and for the guy talking about HMS Monarch, she's a 15 in. gun version of the KGV that was proposed and well liked by the brass, but the changes would have led to construction delays that were deemed unacceptable, so the 14 in. gun version stayed. The only weirdness with her is the use of Nelson style turrets, which were outdated by that point, if it were built, they'd likely have been more angular like the final KGV design had. Not WG's only such mistake. Kii and Izumo have turret roof mounted sighting hoods, these were already deemed obsolete by the time Nagato and Mutsu were under construction, but their original turrets were built with them anyways. The Tosa class (or Kaga class depending on who you ask) and Amagi class had improved turrets with side mounted sighting ports, more armor, and more interior space. These ended up being modernized and fitted to Nagato and Mutsu later on. Kii and Izumo should have sighting ports as well and honestly should have larger roof mounted rangefinders. WG, for whatever reason, decided not to do this.

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23 minutes ago, RicketyEdge said:

Behold, HMCS Ontario C32 - Minotaur-class light cruiser. Granted she's an "improved design" in game but the class did exist. 

There are 3 Minotaur classes in RN history (only 2 actually built), this is just a mis-understanding of them:

1.  Minotaur in game was also known as Design Z, planned for 1947.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1947)

2.  The Minotaur you are referring to (also known as the Swiftsure class of 1943) was a modified Crown Colony Class.  

3.  An armored cruiser class built in 1906.

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1 hour ago, SkaerKrow said:

Gimmicks include very strong deck plating, laser accuracy at close range, a rapid re-use damage control consumable, and anti-BB radar at higher tiers. They’re gimmicky as hell.

Their decks are weak based on what I have seen. The hull is what's armored.

I did forget the radar though.

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57 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

The Monarch did not exist. It's some kind of small version of the Lion.

 The Lion did not exist. It's class was planned and then scrapped. Vanguard was built instead and was the last waste of steel of the war.

The Conqueror did not exist.

You were saying?

After the King George V the "navy that actually was" actually wasn't. Need I remind you that:

Montana, Izumo, F Der Grosse, Kurfurst, Alsace, Republique, Bourgogne, Zao, Ibuki, Azuma, Yoshino, Hindenberg, Roon, Minotaur, Stalingrad, Kronshtadt, Henri, Saint Louis (the french one), Charles Martel, Grozovoi, Khabarovsk, Harugumo, Kitakaze, and Z52 never existed either.

If you're looking for a real navy that existed to complain about. Compare Gearing to Harugumo. Gearing is almost worthless in the current meta.

Or Daring to Harugumo. Daring is even more worthless.

Just "my navy I like somewhat existed" is not really a valid criticism of a ship line, especially one like the RU BB where it feels like WG is going out of their way to make a BB line that are rewarding skilled play.

I'm not disputing that every nation has paper ships. My problem is that the RU line is set to be a better, in terms of power, fun, and general regard by players, than a line that has some of the most famous ships in history. 

In the end, I'm not really criticizing the RU line, it looks fun. I'm really just criticizing how bad the RN line ended up. Sure the RN line puts up good numbers but, people hate playing against and with them, they aren't fun, and they don't help you win in the same way other lines do.

The RU line look to be good for the game for the same reasons that the RN line was bad for the game.

At least the gimmicks that it does have, amplify what you want/expect a BB to be. The RU BB line is basically turning the primary aspects of a BB to 11.

I just don't see why they couldn't have done that for a line that at least mostly existed.

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46 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

I'm not disputing that every nation has paper ships. My problem is that the RU line is set to be a better, in terms of power, fun, and general regard by players, than a line that has some of the most famous ships in history. 

In the end, I'm not really criticizing the RU line, it looks fun. I'm really just criticizing how bad the RN line ended up. Sure the RN line puts up good numbers but, people hate playing against and with them, they aren't fun, and they don't help you win in the same way other lines do.

The RU line look to be good for the game for the same reasons that the RN line was bad for the game.

At least the gimmicks that it does have, amplify what you want/expect a BB to be. The RU BB line is basically turning the primary aspects of a BB to 11.

I just don't see why they couldn't have done that for a line that at least mostly existed.

What in the RN BB line is included in "the most famous ships of history"?

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From what I understand they basically are immune to overmatch, and have super laser like guns. The trade off is  that they sigma is worse than most other BBs, but they still have good accuracy.

Their DCP is also different. It doesn't have unlimited charges, but it lasts a long time, making the ships immune to flooding or fire while it's active.

Right now I'm really skeptical about how they'll work balance wise. Right now they seem like they'll be fairy OP simply because of how great their survival will be. Their poor sigma isn't all that bad since their dispersion is so good. Combine that with super velocity shells and you're going to get much better hit rates than say a USN BB that has to deal with piss poor velocity in exchange for it's gunnery.

The Russian BB line really brings into question the reason for the Germans poor accuracy IMO.

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1000 rubles says they'll be the only BBs with depth charges if subs are introduced.  They'll have 10km aim-able hedgehogs. 

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