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Walclt

Matchmaker running wild in co--op

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Noticed today that the "fair play" match maker has failed since the latest patch.  We had no aircraft carriers so they   couldn't insert they extra BB for an edge instead they substituted ships with longer range torps to replace ones that matched up with the human team.  So explain again how fair the matchmaker is.   They replaced a Huanghe with an Aoba,

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I think they got rid of the 100% mirror matchs. Now you see some of the bot ships to be different from the human team counterparts, but still from same tier and ship type.

This is actually good, as it spices things up a bit. I think some Coop players asked for something like this before.

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14 minutes ago, Walclt said:

They replaced a Huanghe with an Aoba,

They replaced a T6 cruiser with a different T6 cruiser.  Nothing wrong with that.

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Mixing up the ships of same tiers is interesting but getting a match with two CVs creates a potential imbalance with two BBs and two new or poor CV players.  One extra BB in place of a single CV seems to be OK.

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32 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I think they got rid of the 100% mirror matchs. Now you see some of the bot ships to be different from the human team counterparts, but still from same tier and ship type.

This is actually good, as it spices things up a bit. I think some Coop players asked for something like this before.

Exactly!!!  If they have done this (as it appears they've sort of done), that's a GREAT THING!

 

44 minutes ago, Walclt said:

Noticed today that the "fair play" match maker has failed since the latest patch.  We had no aircraft carriers so they   couldn't insert they extra BB for an edge instead they substituted ships with longer range torps to replace ones that matched up with the human team.  So explain again how fair the matchmaker is.   They replaced a Huanghe with an Aoba,

Dude, it's a GREAT THING if they've finally removed mirrored MM from coop's MM.  It's boring as hell to fight the exact same ship comp that your own team is fielding.  So what if the bot team's cruiser seems better?  Sometimes it might be worse too.  Ever consider that?    It's more interesting and challenging to not have to face perfectly mirrored team comps in coop!

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27 minutes ago, ClassicLib said:

Mixing up the ships of same tiers is interesting but getting a match with two CVs creates a potential imbalance with two BBs and two new or poor CV players.  One extra BB in place of a single CV seems to be OK.

I agree with this.  At some point in the future, it might not be so bad.  But right now, many CV players are struggling to do significant damage, and allowing 2 CVs on the player team to be replaced by 2 BBs of the same tier on the bot team creates a serious imbalance.

And to be fair, it's not really about "new or poor" CV players.  In a sense, every CV player right now, with the possible exception of those who spent serious time on the test server learning to play the reworked CVs, are going to be sort of new.  And right now, I'm not sure that I could say that any CV I'm playing is the equal of a same tier BB in a coop battle.  Maybe in a couple of weeks, I might be though.

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1 hour ago, Walclt said:

Noticed today that the "fair play" match maker has failed since the latest patch.  We had no aircraft carriers so they   couldn't insert they extra BB for an edge instead they substituted ships with longer range torps to replace ones that matched up with the human team.  So explain again how fair the matchmaker is.   They replaced a Huanghe with an Aoba,

Not easy to do. I recall the Brits and Germans negotiating who could bring what ships to the Dogger Bank meeting to make it a fair match :-)

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This may or may not have taught me that some DDs have longer range torps than the American DD on my team :Smile_hiding:

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I, personally like the non mirrored teams- like others said, it adds some spice to the omelete.   I also agree that in 2 CV matches, giving the bots 2 BB's can be over the top a tad.  Particularly in combination with the new tune-up the bots got- Which I think is sometimes a bit over-tuned.

 And I'm really getting tired of their fetish for ramming.

  Other than seeing a higher percentage of the death squad bots,  the only thing really dragging matches down and sucking the fun out- is other players.   Much of that has to do with a few things:

1)  Another round of the carrier campaign,  do=able in Co-op.   With the current state of pvp, it's easier and faster to do them in pve- and to play for your personal mission, NOT the game.   This brings in a lot of players to the mode.

2) the CV-pocalypse.   Lots of players who are tired of the new meta, are switching to pve, for now- and bringing their pvp habits with them.

3) DD-mageddon.  I've seen a big uptick in DD's in queue, and most matches have 3 or more now.   Among other things, this leads to more 4 minute blowouts due to the stupidity of the bot DD's, and consistent lower damage for everyone else.  (fewer HP in the pool;  torp spam wiping out the bots super fast, etc)  Also, the "KILLLL ZE DD!!!!!!!!" bot programming seems to have been boosted again.  Often causing the bot team to do ridiculous and stupid things in their blind zeal to smash the lolibotes.   When they AREN'T acting like absolute gits,  DD play can be really fun- a fact that hasn't gone unnoticed among the DD players, lol.

4)  all the CV newbs struggling to make them work;  combined with an extra big gun/ high tanky ship on the other team, sometimes leads to the green team being wiped out.

5) general stinky/ poor play.   Everything from lemming trains (to the weak side of the map.  they then stay there) to suicidal yolo tactics, to abandoning teammates to die the instant red is seen.  Even camping is making a big comeback.   You name it, I've likely seen it in the last week.  (including salty hissy fits in chat)   Also on the uptick, are players sooo greedy and desperate for kills, that they will do just about anything to make sure they get them before you do.   Lots of pink warnings are a result of this.    I regularly run out of neg votes...

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The CV thing is just a temporary exception, as the dev's still haven't programmed the bots to properly use the reworked CV's. It's actually got nothing to do with the abolishment of 100% mirror matches.

If you ever get into a Coop match without any CV, you'll still see asymmetrical team setups, now in a post-rework environment. 

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3 hours ago, Walclt said:

Noticed today that the "fair play" match maker has failed since the latest patch.  We had no aircraft carriers so they   couldn't insert they extra BB for an edge instead they substituted ships with longer range torps to replace ones that matched up with the human team.  So explain again how fair the matchmaker is.   They replaced a Huanghe with an Aoba,

100% Mirrored MM is gone for Co-op and I for one say thank god. The MM is still more than fair. Instead of always getting an exact copy you now can get a few different ships in the mix out of the 8. I don't think I have seen more than 3 different ones yet. Usually it is just 1 or 2 (not counting BB for CV swaps). You will always get a same tier/ship class for a match it just won't be the exact same ship. Like your Huanghe matching an Aoba. Still a T6 Cruiser for a T6 Cruiser.

This is a good thing. You get to face different ships, more often, and learn their strengths and weaknesses. It teaches you how to fight against more ships. Unless you have and play every ship in the game this will let you face off vs more of them. I think this provides good player experience as it provides a much broader range of ships to play against. It is also a lot less boring IMO. 

As far as your specific torp range issue. In Co-op I wouldn't worry about a bot ship having longer range torps than you do. They don't long range torp or pre emptive torp the way humans do so it isn't a big deal. Bots torp close. I would worry more about a bot that had more torps than I did and getting too close to it than I would it's range exceeding mine. It really isn't even an issue in PVP honestly. Sometimes you have the ship with better "stuff" and sometimes the reds do. Again, it provides you valuable experience (this time learning to fight a better ship).

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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I've been playing a lot of coop since I got the Flint, using my 19 PT Worcester commander to grind elite captain xp and knock out some of the daily mission chains. The Flint is so OP in coop it's not funny. Extreme daka + smoke + torps + suicidal bots = almost always ending up with 50% more XP than anyone else. 

There has always been a red Flint on the other side, so it appears non-mirrored MM is selective. 

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hmmm...well i think that mixing of other ships in the same tier is good for Coop ...i like that change.

however, it probably be bias to certain ships, i could be wrong but i havent seen it pair my ATL with another ship of the same Tier....  

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7 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

I've been playing a lot of coop since I got the Flint, using my 19 PT Worcester commander to grind elite captain xp and knock out some of the daily mission chains. The Flint is so OP in coop it's not funny. Extreme daka + smoke + torps + suicidal bots = almost always ending up with 50% more XP than anyone else. 

There has always been a red Flint on the other side, so it appears non-mirrored MM is selective. 

 

5 minutes ago, Shinnidan said:

hmmm...well i think that mixing of other ships in the same tier is good for Coop ...i like that change.

however, it probably be bias to certain ships, i could be wrong but i havent seen it pair my ATL with another ship of the same Tier....  

I haven't seen MM match a human tech tree with a bot premium but have seen a human premium matched with a bot tech tree.

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If someone is stressing about max torpedo range in PvE, good luck with that.

Bots are hard enough to hit more than 25% at close range, much less spamming at max range.

Bots are dumb, but they can evade better than a jet ski.

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Just now, So_lt_Goes said:

If someone is stressing about max torpedo range in PvE, good luck with that.

Bots are hard enough to hit more than 25% at close range, much less spamming at max range.

Bots are dumb, but they can evade better than a jet ski.

I find the perfect range is literally point blank, or anything under 6km. That's why T-61, Monaghan, and a few others are pretty sweet at wrecking face of a BB at mid tier. 

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Just now, SpudZero said:

I find the perfect range is literally point blank, or anything under 6km. That's why T-61, Monaghan, and a few others are pretty sweet at wrecking face of a BB at mid tier. 

Agreed. Poor little Sims and Gallant really shine in Co-op too, and I love getting up close to the toasters in my Hindy.

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21 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

 

I haven't seen MM match a human tech tree with a bot premium but have seen a human premium matched with a bot tech tree.

:cap_like:

that would be messed up if they did match a line ship with a bot premium.  :Smile_amazed:

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Yeah, about that CV thing. There are people that have actually gotten the hang of flying the new planes and setting up and making attacks (myself included, I went from non-CV player to pretty decent CV player in the space of two days). The problem is limited striking power combined with the out of control AA. The bots were already able to put up a good AA screen before the hotfix, due to bots traveling in groups of 2-4 most of the time. Then the hotfix came out and AA at tier 8 and above got cranked to 11, apparently by mistake, as they are working on a hotfix for the hotfix and admitted that there was a problem. It seems there was a small matter of a 400% increase in AA power from tier 7 to tier 8 and it snowballed from there. They sure brought out the nerf hammer in full force even if they didn't mean to.

 

On the bright side, Ryujo actually feels a bit better now (when not against tier 8 AA) because below tier 8, AA actually got adjusted properly. I've been doing quite well for myself in operation Aegis with Ryujo, though there are few things that can derail an attempted strike in it. The Myokos are deadly with their AA and a ball of about 4 Aobas can shut you down as well, it all depends on what randomized enemies spawn in the various groups. Interestingly, the ships that are escorting the captured transports always seem to have their AA turned off for some reason. RJ's AP divebombers are deadly to the Ishizuchis and I tend to make them a priority target when possible. I've also finally earned the silly little 'universal seaman' medal and my 'will to win' medal count has doubled in just the last two days (it was only 2 to begin with, though). I'm actually thinking this rework is going to work out just fine, provided the balance gets worked out and that's not going to happen overnight.

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