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Ducky_shot

WG expects the player base to accept premium ship nerfs because players never raged about premium ship buffs

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So according to a translated summary of an interview s_o had with a Russian streamer that was posted on reddit, (so take with a grain of salt) it was mentioned that WG expects the players to accept premium ship nerfs without rage because it is done for game balance and buffs were performed to premium ships in the past for game balance reasons. 

Not getting into whether or not nerfs and game balance regarding premium ships are acceptable or not with this post. But WG's expectation seems like a bit of a disconnect for them to expect no reaction from their player base simply based on the fact that they have buffed premiums in the past and the community liked that.

Here is the difference, WG: people bought low end or under performing premium ships, knowing what they were buying. If there were shortcomings, they bought it knowing those shortcomings. Players did not buy it expecting it to be buffed in the future. While the player base appreciates buffs, they were never expected at time of purchase and did not factor into the buying decision. Nerfing premium ships is different because the player expectation is no different on overpowered ships. Just like they do with underpowered ships, they give WG money on the expectation that nothing will change. In fact WG implication for years told the player base that they would not consider direct nerfs to premium ships. How WG expects that players should accept that without any backlash, I have no idea. If true, that seems pretty shortsighted and condescending to me. 

Edited by Ducky_shot
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Messing with premium content is ............................. my greatest hate in the world.

If you cant balance it dont release it.

You can point fingers but in reality you only need the one.

And its also not just wg who does this to premium content bought with very hard earned cash.

 

Take giulio 1 week before release it was obviously broken despite huge nerfs and released as broken.

You want to sell something broken thats simply illogical as spock would say.

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If a premium ship is OP, pull it from the shop, and through player attrition, they will slowly leave the ecosystem. This was done quickly with the Nikoli, and eventually with Belfast and Kutuzov.

If the GC was really that OP, why did it take over a year to figure it out? It obviously wasn't really disrupting the game in a meaningful way.

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Just now, abyssofthetriffid said:

Messing with premium content is ............................. my greatest hate in the world.

If you cant balance it dont release it.

You can point fingers but in reality you only need the one.

And its also not just wg who does this to premium content bought with very hard earned cash.

 

Take giulio 1 week before release it was obviously broken despite huge nerfs and released as broken.

You want to sell something broken thats simply illogical as spock would say.

It isn't even the issue that they sold The GC as broken. They sold it for 50% off in December 2017 (when I bought mine) and even gave it away as an incentive to inactive players to come back. Why flood the market with a broken OP ship?

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1 minute ago, abyssofthetriffid said:

Messing with premium content is ............................. my greatest hate in the world.

If you cant balance it dont release it.

Balance changes. The battleship was once the greatest form of naval power in the world... now its aircraft carriers. 

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11 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

snip.

I think our IQ is simply too low in order to comprehend the logic behind that move.

I would rather have preferred a blunt announcement that "it was all in the EULA, deal with it" than this.

Edited by warheart1992
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Just now, warheart1992 said:

I think our IQ is simply too low in order to comprehend the logic behind that move.

We're too stupid to be able to know how to control 1 squad of planes and cv consumables at the same time. 

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15 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Players did not buy it expecting it to be buffed in the future.

Actually I buy all of the premiums and the bad ones I buy because it's likely that they will get buffed. It happens quite frequently. Not that I would not buy them anyway, I mean, if you want them all you have to buy them all.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

Actually I buy all of the premiums and the bad ones I buy because it's likely that they will get buffed. It happens quite frequently.

Yeah, it's started to become expected and I'm sure you're not the only one to expect buffs on weak premiums. 

I typically only buy what I see on the sticker, then I dont have the opportunity to be disappointed. 

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1 minute ago, Ducky_shot said:

Yeah, it's started to become expected and I'm sure you're not the only one to expect buffs on weak premiums. 

I typically only buy what I see on the sticker, then I dont have the opportunity to be disappointed. 

Not that I would not buy them anyway, I mean, if you want them all you have to buy them all.

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2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Not that I would not buy them anyway, I mean, if you want them all you have to buy them all.

That's what one armed Santa is for

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In a perfect world, WG would have been more aggressive at keeping premiums balanced (both buffs and nerfs) historically.  None of this would likely be an issue if WG had a consistent and timely approach to balance in general either, but they don't.  Things like the YY nerf and the fact that premiums have gone years as OP and have been used as prizes by WG marketing just makes people distrust the intentions.  Not to mention the first we heard of it was it getting slipped into ST under the radar, not from an open discussion or news post.

So when you sell ships like Abruzzi, and that's apparently fine to leave as mostly trash forever, don't come crying after making tons of money shilling slot machine crates with the GC jackpot that there's too many GCs and it's ruining the game and we have to do something!

If WG wanted to have a frank discussion and make specific policy changes and promises with player feedback for the health of the game, they should do that.  The way it's being approached now appears hypocritical and insincere, because there appears to be no self awareness that they not only caused it, but failed to address it timely and specifically and knowingly profited off keeping it OP in the meantime.  Suprise Pikachu meme material.

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3 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

That's what one armed Santa is for

Yeah, I got Roma and Le Tribble this year that way, kind of disappointing, I should have saved some some of the good ones for Santa crates.

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So again, people are upset because WG wants to make the game more balanced and enjoyable for all players.

I'm sure before announcing the planned changes someone calculated the risk of offending the current owners against the money that can be made by releasing current OP premiums again after balancing them.

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Ducky I'm afraid your translation/statement has been taken out of context.  What Sub actually said was we are looking at how to balance this ship and what are you seeing is the early testing we have begun.  We announce such testing because we don't want people's expectations and sometimes imaginations to run wild. 

We are definitely doing this with baby steps.

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I understand the need to have particular ship do well in one or few tools than others, it's about content. If there is no new content, the interest will fade; game over due to tipping the scale towards attrition. 

What I do not understand is why the need to make a Premium ship go live (or anything for that matter). When it needs more testing. What is the measure to know it needs more testing? Inclusion of a major change in the game perhaps could be of one.

Then there is the counter argument. "How would we get the necessary data". Simple.

Have it on loan/rent/accessible in the PTS for all. Not just for the few CC's or the folks in Wargaming offices.

You'd have metric tons of more data instantly. Not having to trouble the live server population with excuses, or blowbacks as we have witnessed. At least this method would put the onus on the players who didn't partake in the PTS, when it was accessible for "free" during it's testing phase. I'd expect the "Subject the to change, bla bla"; that's understandable, why wouldn't I? it's in a "testing" environment. 

 

 

 

Edited by LowSpeed_US
typo as included
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1 minute ago, Radar_X said:

Ducky I'm afraid your translation/statement has been taken out of context.  What Sub actually said was we are looking at how to balance this ship and what are you seeing is the early testing we have begun.  We announce such testing because if we don't people's expectations and sometimes imaginations run wild. 

We are definitely doing this with baby steps.

I don't think that's what was effectively communicated though, Radar.

You guys seem to be aware that this represents a major policy (or at least perceived policy) change to the players, but you are only discussing it as if it is like an aberration or a natural disaster.  This is why it seems duplicitous, it was just advertised as a "special" loot crate prize less than a month ago.

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26 minutes ago, DustRhino said:

If a premium ship is OP, pull it from the shop, and through player attrition, they will slowly leave the ecosystem. This was done quickly with the Nikoli, and eventually with Belfast and Kutuzov.

If the GC was really that OP, why did it take over a year to figure it out? It obviously wasn't really disrupting the game in a meaningful way.

?? WG sells those ships for $100's in Santa crates, they never disappear....:Smile_teethhappy:

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5 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Ducky I'm afraid your translation/statement has been taken out of context.  What Sub actually said was we are looking at how to balance this ship and what are you seeing is the early testing we have begun.  We announce such testing because if we don't want people's expectations and sometimes imaginations to run wild. 

We are definitely doing this with baby steps.

You could solve this by not putting out absurdly OP ships to begin with.....:cap_hmm:

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Deleted.

I am getting too snarky. Apologies. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

So according to a translated summary of an interview s_o had with a Russian streamer that was posted on reddit, it was mentioned that WG expects the players to accept premium ship nerfs without rage because it is done for game balance and buffs were performed to premium ships in the past for game balance reasons. 

Not getting into whether or not nerfs and game balance regarding premium ships are acceptable or not with this post. But WG's expectation seems like a bit of a disconnect for them to expect no reaction from their player base simply based on the fact that they have buffed premiums in the past and the community liked that.

Here is the difference, WG: people bought low end or under performing premium ships, knowing what they were buying. If there were shortcomings, they bought it knowing those shortcomings. Players did not buy it expecting it to be buffed in the future. While the player base appreciates buffs, they were never expected at time of purchase and did not factor into the buying decision. Nerfing premium ships is different because the player expectation is no different on overpowered ships. Just like they do with underpowered ships, they give WG money on the expectation that nothing will change. In fact WG implication for years told the player base that they would not consider direct nerfs to premium ships. How WG expects that players should accept that without any backlash, I have no idea. Seems pretty shortsighted and condescending to me. 

It would have been nice to see the reaction to this as a stand alone, not an add on to the CV rework anger. I don't even own the boat and it made me angry, because I was already angry. 

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11 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Ducky I'm afraid your translation/statement has been taken out of context.  What Sub actually said was we are looking at how to balance this ship and what are you seeing is the early testing we have begun.  We announce such testing because we don't want people's expectations and sometimes imaginations to run wild. 

We are definitely doing this with baby steps.

Yeah, that's why I prefaced my comments in the fact it's a summary of what someone translated in Russian. The exact line from that summary says:

Lots of premium ship up-s have been done and that was OK for the community. Nerfing premium ships, which is out of balance, should be treated the same  - without rage. 

I dont speak Russian, so can only go off of what is provided by those that do. 

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10 minutes ago, awiggin said:

You could solve this by not putting out absurdly OP ships to begin with.....:cap_hmm:

I mean I could stop throwing out food if wouldn't Large size my #8 from McDonald's.

The intention is always to release balanced ships.

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@Ducky_shot is there any chance of getting a list of what premiums if any received buffs after release and what those buffs. I have many premium ships and do not have a clue about any buffs to any of them.

However I do agree that once a premium ship is made available to the live server it should not be changed in any way for the better nor the worse. If it is found to be too weak or too strong then it should be removed from sale and any other means that a player might acquire it. Those who own such a ship should be allowed to keep it as is, offered a full doubloon refund or an exchange of a new premium ship of the same tier, type and nation. 

WG should not release any ship tech tree or premium nor any feature/update to the live server that has not been thoroughly tested on the TST/PTS servers and if they do and problems occur on the live server they need to own it and revert the live server to as it was before the change. 

@Radar_X     and the problems such as this could be eliminated by my above statement.

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