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Gunga_Dinner

I have to admit

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Love or hate what has been going on since 0.8.0 it has done one thing:

You don't see nearly as many, if ever, five minute steam roll battles.  I could see how this is balance, just not the balance you might be looking for.

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That's...actually a really good point. People are afraid to be decisive in a lot of situations, but that could also be keeping them from making stupid mistakes.

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14 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

That's...actually a really good point. People are afraid to be decisive in a lot of situations, but that could also be keeping them from making stupid mistakes.

There is obviously a lot more going on, but I was thinking about my battles today and it dawned on me that all my battles had gone over 15 minutes and were seldom more than one or two ships difference between the two sides.  I think there is not just more caution, but more thought being put into actions taken.  People are getting mad, ships are getting deleted, planes melted, salty tears flowing, but stepping away from the CV good/bad debate and looking at the battles I have been in, they have actually been good, well fought, protracted affairs with people paying attention to what they are doing and where they are doing it. (Mostly playing Tier VIII ships, so Tier VIII-X battles)

Perhaps some of it is fear and caution, but I like to think that perhaps it might have to do with the fact that the CVs are giving EVERYONE a much clearer picture of the battle space and no one is blindly rushing around now.  Now, even from the start, within a minute or so, you know the red fleet disposition and you deploy accordingly.  It feels much more strategic and tactical then the blind rushing around we were doing that would often lead to one team getting annihilated because they chose poorly or had bad luck.

There are many moving parts to this game right now, but I think this might be a positive for us all. I've never heard the ticking countdown clock so much and I like that.

 

two cents 2.jpg

Edited by Gunga_Dinner
Fixed typo
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I noticed that for the  last several months - basically since they made the last tweak to MM

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13 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

I noticed that for the  last several months - basically since they made the last tweak to MM

Even with the MM tweaks, there were still frequent lopsided battles that were over in a jiffy.  It just seems they have become very rare since 0.8.0 and subsequent changes.

0.8.0 has also distracted everyone from the MM needs fixing, Tier VIII is unplayable posts too, lol.

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I actually had two of them today, so it does still happen.

However, Skaer is right - tentativeness is the rule of the day overall. This isn't just due to people being timid, but the overall general lack of destroyers, as well as reduced concealment in general. People no longer feel like they can operate independently - especially in the lower and middle tiers. And with no destroyers to push flanks (or to necessarily be supported), people tend to hover in the background and just 'expect things to happen.'

I'd say it's a wholesale negative change.

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50 minutes ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

I actually had two of them today, so it does still happen.

However, Skaer is right - tentativeness is the rule of the day overall. This isn't just due to people being timid, but the overall general lack of destroyers, as well as reduced concealment in general. People no longer feel like they can operate independently - especially in the lower and middle tiers. And with no destroyers to push flanks (or to necessarily be supported), people tend to hover in the background and just 'expect things to happen.'

I'd say it's a wholesale negative change.

Yes, they do still happen.  I don't know that it is all positive or negative, but it has addressed an issue people were vocal about.

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I think it's a good thing, people will eventually adapt.  Hopefully this will kill the camping meta, and also prevent folks from charging in immediately.

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59 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

I think it's a good thing, people will eventually adapt.  Hopefully this will kill the camping meta, and also prevent folks from charging in immediately.

I stopped playing after 0.8.0 and only just came back with the hot fix.  I know people throw the word balance around a lot, but it can mean many things.  I think balance of fleets may have come about if not balance of ship class, we shall see.  No doubt some of the lengthening of battles is down to people constantly dodging plane attacks, but I like to think there is more to it.  I like to think that people are using the wealth of information planes are providing on the minimap and making better choices, preparing their ships and themselves better for the fights they ARE choosing to be in, and it isn't just people hanging back at spawn.

In a small way, perhaps just a little, the constant planes spotting everything has mad all the maps a little more like the ocean map and we all fight better because of it.

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1 hour ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

I stopped playing after 0.8.0 and only just came back with the hot fix.  I know people throw the word balance around a lot, but it can mean many things.  I think balance of fleets may have come about if not balance of ship class, we shall see.  No doubt some of the lengthening of battles is down to people constantly dodging plane attacks, but I like to think there is more to it.  I like to think that people are using the wealth of information planes are providing on the minimap and making better choices, preparing their ships and themselves better for the fights they ARE choosing to be in, and it isn't just people hanging back at spawn.

In a small way, perhaps just a little, the constant planes spotting everything has mad all the maps a little more like the ocean map and we all fight better because of it.

I think in the end it will work out.  There may be tears and screams before we get there, but we'll get there.

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May be because all the unicums went to play ranked?

Steam roll is just a result of snowball effect of unicums stomping over newbies.

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4 hours ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

tentativeness is the rule of the day overall. This isn't just due to people being timid, but the overall general lack of destroyers, as well as reduced concealment in general. People no longer feel like they can operate independently - especially in the lower and middle tiers. And with no destroyers to push flanks (or to necessarily be supported), people tend to hover in the background and just 'expect things to happen.'

Some people just aren't getting the idea that, if their DDs are timid and permaspotted, so are the enemy's.

Even had a T6 game with no DDs, and people were still afraid to push up lol. 

People think that DDs are the best ships to spot, simply because they are DDs. Really, it's because they have the best relative spotting. If a CL has 10km concealment or less, it's going to be pretty much just as effective at capping as a DD, if no DDs are present.

And because CVs can spot areas pretty quickly, it's not hard to figure out if a DD is around or not.

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The games do tend to last longer because capping is more difficult which slows the point gain. I've seen no difference in the number of steamrolls. They just take longer to resolve. 

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3 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

The games do tend to last longer because capping is more difficult which slows the point gain. I've seen no difference in the number of steamrolls. They just take longer to resolve. 

Lol, 'take longer to resolve', to me, means it isn't a steam roll.  Part of being a steam roll is that the match is over quickly, <7 minutes or so.  If the battle takes awhile to resolve, 15 minutes or more, even if one-sided in the end, it isn't a steam roll.  That's just me though.

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This is a good point, I do enjoy the generally slower pace of games now - especially now that I can play any surface ship in a fun way again.

 

However, I think that is the exact OPPOSITE of what WG wanted to achieve.

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11 hours ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Even with the MM tweaks, there were still frequent lopsided battles that were over in a jiffy.  It just seems they have become very rare since 0.8.0 and subsequent changes.

0.8.0 has also distracted everyone from the MM needs fixing, Tier VIII is unplayable posts too, lol.

After the last teak a few months ago it was noticeable difference for me and a lot of folks remember more than what there really were.   They still happened but I had far more games went to the last 5 minutes with multiple people alive on both teams than before the tweak.  Not to mention many people take phrases like "this will improve game play and help prevent blowouts" as - "there will be no blowouts".   Kinda like when the soft limits for MM were added and people take them to be hard limits.  Just had a thread yesterday wondering why there were too many "limited ships".

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1 minute ago, CylonRed said:

After the last teak a few months ago it was noticeable difference for me and a lot of folks remember more than what there really were.   They still happened but I had far more games went to the last 5 minutes with multiple people alive on both teams than before the tweak.  Not to mention many people take phrases like "this will improve game play and help prevent blowouts" as - "there will be no blowouts".   Kinda like when the soft limits for MM were added and people take them to be hard limits.  Just had a thread yesterday wondering why there were too many "limited ships".

Yes, the fiddling with MM did help, with more than just blow outs.  But to me, the MM tweaks seemed to make the occurances more extreme.  When there was a blowout, it was a BLOWOUT and they would come in spurts.  Grinding the PEF, for example, was almost a string of <5 minutes battles, both on the winning and losing side.  Since 0.8.0, for numerous reasons, I am sure, they feel much less frequent, but maybe I am concentrating on other things.

Perspectives may be different on the matter as well.  The ship(s) you generally tend to play will greatly influence the outcomes.  I play mostly Tier VIII followed by Tier VI and both of these Tiers have MM issues that lend themselves to the blowout scenario more than say Tier VII or Tier IX ships.  That is my perspective anyway.

For example the only battle I had today that I would call a blowout was one of the two battles (out of about 15 or so battles) I had without a CV in it.  The rest were protracted and had good opportunities for everyone in the fleet to excel.  Yes, some were focused by the red CVs.  Yes, some CVs had a rough slog (especially when bottom tiered, but who doesn't have a rough slog when bottom tiered?).  Yes, there was salt and acrimony in the chat box.  But I had many more battles go to the ticking clock than sent me to port wondering how a whole fleet just evaporated.

I take your point though and was just voicing my own observation about what I had witnessed since 0.8.0 and how it felt to me.  Back to battle!!!!

:etc_red_button:

 

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as a cv player and several T10's  of all sorts i have seen a great more  team play and people together working together   the lopsided battle ive seen are the  lone wolves suicide over and over

I hate the new patch with a passion i dont think it was made intellectually but more out of haste to appease.

but i will say battle are much more fun as people are just playing better

 

I actually think 8,0 was  fine but needed a little tweaking for dds, in the last couple day i saw great team effort and play and player were actually learning how to deal with cvs

now it  flipped and cvs are learning how to deal with aa and team play i think i hope the next pacth is  small on changes and look forward to it

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