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Anij

CV Rework poll

CV rework poll  

124 members have voted

  1. 1. Pull the rework temporarily but dont go back to RTS

    • YES
      42
    • NO
      82
  2. 2. Fighter Squadrons

    • Give CV players the ability to provide air cover
      68
    • Give CV players fighter squadrons but no fighter combat
      25
    • Give CV players fighter squadrons with fighter combat
      31
  3. 3. CV Airstrikes

    • Reduce attack runs from 3 to 2 with a small alpha buff
      27
    • Reduce attack runs from 3 to 1 with a slightly higher alpha buff
      34
    • Keep As is
      63
  4. 4. F-KEY

    • Remove it out right-CV players shouldnt have it
      41
    • Modify it-CV players fly out of harms way then hit Fkey
      49
    • Keep as is
      34
  5. 5. Unlimited planes

    • Unlimited planes are cool but increase cool down time
      27
    • Unlimited planes are cool as is
      53
    • Unlimited planes are not cool
      44
  6. 6. AA Gun Sounds

    • AA sounds cooler in pre 8.0
      33
    • AA sounds cooler in 8.0
      91

76 comments in this topic

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If WG wants to balance 8.0 and AA lets have a vote

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3 minutes ago, Anij said:

f WG wants to balance 8.0

Misleading, we're at 0.8.0.1 not 0.8.0...

0.8.0 was fine...

0.8.0.1 nerfed CVs to krespy kream status

BTW

you quit the game 3 days ago... You still here ?

 

Edited by Navalpride33
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1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

Misleading, we're at 0.8.0.1 not 0.8.0...

0.8.0 was fine...

0.8.0.1 nerfed CVs to krespy kream status

BTW

you quit the game 3 days ago... You still here ?

 

I usually play 10-20 games a night but I have played under 20 this week. I never said I wouldn't be back I just want them to move there butt and fix the bloody thing so I can go play. They don't need data to fix some basic mechanics in the rework but they really seem to be hell bent on making CVs popular and pleasing the console crowd while they forget that most of their players are on laptop/pc

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8 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

0.8.0 was fine...

400k+ damage averages over 20 games in a haku is not fine... for anyone...

10 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

0.8.0.1 nerfed CVs to krespy kream status

True. AA needs dialing back 25-33% and some f key recall adjustments made.

Also your poll options are too limited and failed to include bacon.

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13 minutes ago, Xanshin said:

400k+ damage averages over 20 games in a haku is not fine... for anyone...

28 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

how about 380k in a BB? So a BB can have high consistent DMG totals..  That is good for everyone

How about 350k in a cruiser ??? So a Cruiser can have high consistent DMG totals.. . THAT is good for everyone

Or How about 320k in a gun DD??? Is that tolerable consistent DMG totals. Is that tolerable?

But if a torp DD or a CV does the same totals... THAT is not acceptable? Nerf it down o Krespy kream status... Are you serious ?

Its because of that mindset. The CV rework just got reduced to Kreyspy kream status in 0.8.0.1

When Mr. Conway states to fix the "F  key", lower/mid tier CVs are the "unintended consequences" of fixing it.

IMO. LEaving the F-key was less then a headache then the failed fix of O.8.0.1.

But hey, I am having fun watching this drama. I may not agree with it bu it is what it is.

Edited by Navalpride33

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20 minutes ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

I don't understand how any of the options under #2 would work

I would like to see squadrons have a defense value when attacked by fighters with the attack fighters being the most capable and the bombers being the least but the fighters would be liable for losses for attacking armed planes.

Otherwise the basic systems are good but the one thing that desperately needs adjustment is how planes of higher or lower tier interact with AA, the old plane scaling problem. I want the AA to treat a tier 6 attacking a tier 8 as the same tier. This would need a modifier to adjust AA to account for the level of the attacking planes. However I would not apply this to fail division, no buffs and no debuffs to discourage that.

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19 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

how about 380k in a BB? So a BB can have high consistent DMG totals..  That is good for everyone

How about 350k in a cruiser ??? So a Cruiser can have high consistent DMG totals.. . THAT is good for everyone

Or How about 320k in a gun DD??? Is that tolerable consistent DMG totals. Is that tolerable?

But if a torp DD or a CV does the same totals... THAT is not acceptable? Nerf it down o Krespy kream status... Are you serious ?

The problem is not that CVs can get one good high damage game. The problem was how often that happened, and how quickly things escalated regarding damage dealt. Below are the stats of someone who mastered the art of Hakuryu:

74651F4A-D31C-44D8-A5BB-A93A48436D4A.thumb.jpeg.103e58215dd50bce8deeb4241265156c.jpeg

Over 220k average damage after 170 games. I have yet to see anyone getting even close to such an average damage with any other ship over such a sample size. Not to mention the top score, which is beyond the 500k mark, a number the majority of players, me included, will never achieve.

 

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I was more mildly so before, but now I'm firmly in the remove CV entirely camp.

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2 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

The problem is not that CVs can get one good high damage game. The problem was how often that happened, and how quickly things escalated regarding damage dealt. Below are the stats of someone who mastered the art of Hakuryu:

74651F4A-D31C-44D8-A5BB-A93A48436D4A.thumb.jpeg.103e58215dd50bce8deeb4241265156c.jpeg

Over 220k average damage after 170 games. I have yet to see anyone getting even close to such an average damage with any other ship over such a sample size. Not to mention the top score, which is beyond the 500k mark, a number the majority of players, me included, will never achieve.

 

But the Haku is an outlier. None of the other CVs over performed like that. And yes, it needed fixing. 

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3 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

But the Haku is an outlier. None of the other CVs over performed like that. And yes, it needed fixing. 

An outlier which desperately needed fixing, and makes statements that 0.8.0 was fine rather... questionable if you ask me.

Also Graf Zeppelin performed well beyond the other T8 CVs, but that should be nothing unusual :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Over 220k average damage after 170 games. I have yet to see anyone getting even close to such an average damage with any other ship over such a sample size. Not to mention the top score, which is beyond the 500k mark, a number the majority of players, me included, will never achieve.

 then why nerf it if it was not achievable in a continues basis ?

What I understand is...

IF a BB does 200k, he is successful game.

If a cruiser makes 200k match, its a successful game.

But if you do it with torps or worse a CV with torps. No one can be that successful or get the same recognition of helping out the fleet the same way as a cruiser or BB. Nerf the CV to Krespy kream status.

That is why WOWS needs to change.

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3 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

An outlier which desperately needed fixing, and makes statements that 0.8.0 was fine rather... questionable if you ask me.

Also Graf Zeppelin performed well beyond the other T8 CVs, but that should be nothing unusual :Smile_teethhappy:

Hakuryu did need fixing, not arguing that. 

But the Hosho and Langley were under performing in 8.0, and got the same nerf bat. And CVs were bad at -2 before, now they don't compete period.

And the patch doesn't help DDs because now the only ships CVs can reliably hit with acceptable losses are DDs so they will get focused even more.

 

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

IF a BB does 200k, he is successful game.

If a cruiser makes 200k match, its a successful game.

I think your perception of how common 200k damage matches occur needs adjusting. 

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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I think your perception of how common 200k damage matches occur needs adjusting. 

I'd agree consistent 200k damage games from average players would be too much.

I am a below average CV player and was not able to do that in the Hak, AT ALL.

However, I did have two 200k games back to back in ranked in the Musashi. Nobody was in here yelling about it. Nobody was [edited] about how I was a chicken crapBB player in the game chat.  This is the problem here in this game. Most classes can have good games except for CV, because as soon as they do, the sky is falling and 'it's not fair' .

 

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8 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

 then why nerf it if it was not achievable in a continues basis ?

What I understand is...

IF a BB does 200k, he is successful game.

If a cruiser makes 200k match, its a successful game.

But if you do it with torps or worse a CV with torps. No one can be that successful or get the same recognition of helping out the fleet the same way as a cruiser or BB. Nerf the CV to Krespy kream status.

That is why WOWS needs to change.

Again, the problem is not that a CV can, and by nature will at times get 200k damage games. Been there, done that. Monster games are something worth of praise, regardless of class.

The problem is when a CV, or any other ship if you want, can pull off 200+k damage games in basically every match played, over a large sample size.

8 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

And the patch doesn't help DDs because now the only ships CVs can reliably hit with acceptable losses are DDs so they will get focused even more.

The issues of DDs at the moment are mostly due to the popularity of CVs. Of course life of a DD is difficult when matches with two or three CVs are common. I assume, obviously can‘t guarantee, that once the CV hype dies down DDs will be able to breathe up again.

 

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1 minute ago, TurboT said:

However, I dd have two 200k games back to back in ranked in the Musashi. Nobody was in here yelling about it. Nobody was [edited] about how I was a chicken crapBB player in the game chat.  This is the problem here in this game. Most classes can have good games except for CV, because as soon as they do, the sky is falling and 'it's not fair' . 

This touches base upon a larger issue:  What is a CV's role? 

Are they meant to be sledgehammers doling out massive amounts of damage?  Are they meant to be a clean-up hitter, picking on damaged ships and finishing them off?  Are they a support-class, meant to provide vision and help control cap circles?  Are they more specific than that and are, by design, meant to counter another given ship type like destroyers?

People are getting upset at each other about the damage carriers are doing (with each side screaming they're doing either too much or too little) without a point of reference.  We simply do not know how much damage they should be doing.  Anyone telling you that their value is correct while your value is wrong doesn't have a leg to stand on.  The only thing we do know is that the 500 to 600k ceiling (with 100k average damage being commonplace) at tier 10 was considered too high, hence the changes that were implemented.

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...and would also like to point out that 170 games in one ship in a week is certainly 'commitment to the cause'  ... you literally would become ACE just from the damn practice.  I thought I was playing a lot and probably haven't done half of those battles.

 

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My choice is to revert to the RTS system then fix it.  It's not happening but I don't care, that is my opinion on the matter.

I was an average player at best, a below average at worst with the RTS system.  Yet I had Way more fun with it than the new rework.
As far as the other surface ships are concerned, AGAIN, I liked the old system more... It sucked when a carrier had a hard-on for you, but with a cruiser escort if you could ask for one, or after a strike or 2 you'd usually be okay.  Also carriers where pretty rare (33% or so of my games, at most, and almost never 2 in same match) that it was a nice change of pace.

I guess if we absolutely have to keep the new rework (yuk!) :

  • Only one strike (but more powerful) would be my choice and keep the AA buffed... So the CV might land 4-6 torps on you, but if they close to point blank, you kill-off half of their planes with a AA-focused cruiser like Cleveland.
  • Re-add hangar plane reserve and kill the plane regeneration
  • Remove the AA sectors and bring back the shift+click on a squad to focus on it.
  • Remove repairs on planes.
  • Bring back fighter squadrons, but give the ability to attach to a specific friendly ship, and an engagement radius large enough to cover maybe 7.2km.  Also make the fighters fast and QUICK TO INTERCEPT.  Also they should always priorise attacking squads and only attack retreating ones if no attacking ones are coming.  They should last at least 3 minutes, and return to carrier either on call-back, or if defending ship is sunk.  Maybe have 3 squadrons, and you split them the way you want, but you do not take direct control of them once they are set on someone, it is done automatically.  [EDIT] You can also fly them close to enemy fighters and they fight each other automatically like before.

RTS > 8.0.x > Remove the class
That's my opinion.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I think your perception of how common 200k damage matches occur needs adjusting. 

My lady in context it was sarcasm.... At tier 10 according to Ship comrade web site its very common. Especially with 5 BBs at 95k - 105k HP with heal (that is not even half the fleet ). Its doable its more then possible.

In context... All I was saying was, Cruisers/BB can do high score totals and the narrative is positive... a DD/CV with torps scores high... Please NErf or any other negative narrative...

THat is the current problem.

That is he must frustrating part of this process.

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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

This touches base upon a larger issue:  What is a CV's role? 

Are they meant to be sledgehammers doling out massive amounts of damage?  Are they meant to be a clean-up hitter, picking on damaged ships and finishing them off?  Are they a support-class, meant to provide vision and help control cap circles?  Are they more specific than that and are, by design, meant to counter another given ship type like destroyers?

People are getting upset at each other about the damage carriers are doing (with each side screaming they're doing either too much or too little) without a point of reference.  We simply do not know how much damage they should be doing.  Anyone telling you that their value is correct while your value is wrong doesn't have a leg to stand on.  The only thing we do know is that the 500 to 600k ceiling (with 100k average damage being commonplace) at tier 10 was considered too high, hence the changes that were implemented.

I'd agree. I'd love for wargaming to come out and say, "We want CVs to do this to support the battle and this is our focus to get them there"

The constant rant about DD's and damage since the beginning of this game's life has never really been cleared up either.  I for one don't believe a ship with 22k HP should be dealing equal damage to a ship that brings in 100k HP... but again we have this unclear picture of what each class should be doing.

If a good game in a CV is a mix of spotting and 50k damage at it's given tier, it should be rewarded in XP for that, and should be stated by WG that this is their expectation on how we balance it.  Instead we get nothing but complaining, screaming and salt.

 

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

how about 380k in a BB? So a BB can have high consistent DMG totals..  That is good for everyone

How about 350k in a cruiser ??? So a Cruiser can have high consistent DMG totals.. . THAT is good for everyone

Or How about 320k in a gun DD??? Is that tolerable consistent DMG totals. Is that tolerable?

But if a torp DD or a CV does the same totals... THAT is not acceptable? Nerf it down o Krespy kream status... Are you serious ?

Its because of that mindset. The CV rework just got reduced to Kreyspy kream status in 0.8.0.1

When Mr. Conway states to fix the "F  key", lower/mid tier CVs are the "unintended consequences" of fixing it.

IMO. LEaving the F-key was less then a headache then the failed fix of O.8.0.1.

But hey, I am having fun watching this drama. I may not agree with it bu it is what it is.

The damage difference was because of easily a CV could exploit a bad player or bad team. I see 2 BBs without air support, I make both use damage control, staying out of their AA and dropping from a distance. I repeat again to have a flooding on both because they did not try to avoid the torpedoes and had no AA cover. I come back with another squad, flood them both again. guaranteed 300k damage game. You get 300k damage games in Conqueror the same way, set 2 BBs on fire and let them burn and repair themselves for more damage. Yet people don't cry about Conqueror being OP when people get 300k+ damage games in it.

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