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Grflrgl

From a DD main playing CVs

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So, I'm a DD main, and I've spent 50 games playing CVs. I wanted to get a feel for how they work, and sort out how to combat them as a DD. Here's what I've learned. (Some of this may be intuitive to some of you, and you may already have figured this out, but I hope that some will find it at least a bit of a help.) I'm in T4 and T6 CVs right now. I haven't tried anything higher. But some of this should apply to higher tier play as well.

 

1. When you first see the planes, don't panic, and if you're not spotted immediately, turn away from the planes when you first see them. Remember, you can see the planes before they can see you. Spotting a DD from the air is actually more of accidentally flying over them than anything else. If you see one in your area, try to turn away. 

2. Make sure your AA is turned off. I've noticed that there are a lot of times when my AA turns itself on - without permission! I've noticed from the CV side that a lot of my spotting at range comes from DDs that have their AA on too early.

3. Don't pop the AA till you're spotted, but turn it on as soon as you get spotted.

4. Turn toward the planes as soon as you see them - if you can do it without the other surface ships splattering you.  There's an interesting dynamic in that moment when the plane spots the DD. They're oftentimes almost directly under me, so there's no hope of my getting rockets or anything else on them immediately. If you keep your bow toward the planes, they will have a bit more work to get their weapons on you. 

5. The edge of the map is your friend. There's an interesting effect caused by flying into the edge of the map. The planes can't fly over the edge. So when they hit the edge, it slows the planes down and they turn to one side or another automatically. When that happens, it has two effects. First, it gives your AA a few extra seconds of blasting planes. Second, it causes some discombobulation on the part of the pilots. You can't just come around for another pass. You have to basically fly away for a bit, realign your shot, and come in again. It's all a matter of seconds, but over the course of a game it adds up. I played one game with a Shiratsuyu running the edge of the map and I couldn't do more than scratch his boat. Another interesting thing is that there's an element of motion sickness that comes up when you have to fly into the edge of the board. If the CV player is sensitive to this, the edge of the map is the point of exploitation.

6. Radio Location is a bigger deal late in the game. Early in the game, yes, I can often find the DD. But the stuff above still applies. By the time the game renders the DD on my screen, it's right below the nose of my lead plane and I can't get weapons on it fast. The same dynamics above still apply. So it might be wise to sail with an AA CA behind you early in the game. I actually don't feel that the CV gets 4 points of value from the RL skill at the lower tiers, but I suspect it may be a lot more useful in the upper tiers. 

7. Don't screen for globs of ships. I've seen plenty of games with heavies hiding behind rocks trying to cover each other with the various AA bubbles. I can't get near them with planes. But I will fly around them to let the other ships blast away. If you're screening in front of them, the planes will see you and then the dance begins. If that happens, run back to the safety of the others till the planes move on. But this kind of formation might be a good way to get on a flank and torn the glob of ships on the other team.

8. Torps have to be stable to be accurate. Torping a nimble ship like a DD is a waste of time, and I've quit even trying (again, this might be different at higher tiers). But if you want to throw off their aim, make them turn the planes when they're on approach. Turn into the planes and slow down a bit, then speed up again. If the nose of the planes start to move, then their aim is going to hell. 

9. Dive bombers are the hardest things to hit with. Don't weave back and forth. Pick a direction, and start turning a bit as they approach. Then turn hard as they get closer. Pick a direction and stick with it. Just before they drop, slam it into reverse if you won't get shot by other surface ships. Don't lose your forward momentum, and accelerate after the drop. The damage is lessened this way. I've actually hit a couple of DDs and gotten no damage because it was a glancing blow.

 

Now, here's the bad part. All of this will change over time. As the CV drivers learn their craft, they will likely get better and better. As they do, these ideas may not work so well. But they work for now.

 

I'm firmly convinced that the age of the DD is NOT come to an end. This is not the apocalypse for DD mains. And I'm an IJN main myself. I've had some fine games  with Shiratsuyu, Kagero and Musuki. It's going to take some time to sort it all out, but in the end, I don't think that DDs are dead, and I don't think their fundamental mission will change. Will an Unicum CV driver kill you at their leisure? Yes. Can an Unicum CV driver make your life miserable? Yes. But that's not any  different than what we had before. But if you look at the averages, we're all going to have our jobs back in a couple of months. And no, I do NOT think we are going to relegated to the role of fleet escort. We'll be doing that for a bit, and we'll have to get a bit craftier to make this work in the long run, but I do think we have fine days ahead of us.

 

 

Edited by Grflrgl
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While I will agree with your main points there are some caveats that I would add. 

1) While it's true that its hard to spot a DD on the first pass, I use Last Known Location on my minimap.  Thus once I know a DD is in a position as an experienced player I can predict where they will be and start my attack run before even spotting them and typically still have enough time to make some adjustments before dropping on the first pass.  It does mean aim might not be perfect, but with rockets it doesn't even matter that much and HE DBs which you start the run on top of the DD anyways its basically irrelevant unless you have the AA to kill planes which at t4/6, the only CVs I have, most DDs just don't (maybe patch changed that didn't play any today).  So there is value in being unpredictable.

2) The Map edge thing is true and frankly it feels like a bug that needs fixed (you should be able to choose which way you turn, but right now you could be in a bank to the left and hit the map edge and the game decides you should exit to the right).  However, if you are doing the map edge running you are most likely CV hunting which means you are not useful to your team against a good CV (you will die) or wasting your time killing a useless CV.  Since many CV games end up with all the surface ships dead (again prior to the patch) it is more important to have the cap point advantage than do whatever you might be doing on the edge of the map.

Another thing I should note is that you can reinforce your AA, turn off the AA, and when you turn it back on it is still reinforced.  So reinforce the side you expect to show to the CV while running back to the team before turning off your AA.

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Fairly accurate.

Some other things to consider,

1. Sitting and shooting in smoke: Against dive bombers, sure, they are awkward enough to use. Against torpedo bombers, it can be done in the short term, before you get cross dropped. CV's can cross drop the smoke just by the very nature of having to make several passes, and will have to fly a figure 8 to get the runs in as quickly as possible. Against Rocket planes, it's not hard to hit a DD in smoke, especially at the higher tiers.

2. Radio location: probably not that useful in random, maybe in a competitive environment it could be. CV's are skill point hungry, and that's 4 points that could be used to make the aircraft survive better. I doubt it's worth it to setup a CV for DD hunting, but I can see a CV working with a DD and cruiser as a hunter-killer group in a competitive environment.

3. CV's targeting DD's, makes sense with the damage poor nature of CV's. DD's have the highest XP per hit point ratio for any given tier, and the team that gets DD superiority first tends to win. Both are good for a CV's paycheck. DD's also have the worst AA in general, so lower risk, higher reward.

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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1 hour ago, Grflrgl said:

I'm firmly convinced that the age of the DD is NOT come to an end. This is not the apocalypse for DD mains. And I'm an IJN main myself. I've had some fine games  with Shiratsuyu, Kagero and Musuki. It's going to take some time to sort it all out, but in the end, I don't think that DDs are dead, and I don't think their fundamental mission will change. Will an Unicum CV driver kill you at their leisure? Yes. Can an Unicum CV driver make your life miserable? Yes. But that's not any  different than what we had before. But if you look at the averages, we're all going to have our jobs back in a couple of months. And no, I do NOT think we are going to relegated to the role of fleet escort. We'll be doing that for a bit, and we'll have to get a bit craftier to make this work in the long run, but I do think we have fine days ahead of us.

For all I think the rework is a cruel joke on long time RTS carrier players, I have to say I agree with you about destroyers. If anything I’m doing better in them now than before the rework.

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Thanks for the research and share it with us.

I tried the CVs (had one researched in the EU account) and found them not fun and quite difficult to use.

As you say, we can live with them and do our job.

Planes can be dodged, but if a CV spots all her attention on the DD, later or sooner you`re done.

As normally DDs have weak AAA, and little damage pool, damage pays its price and can put you out or condition your rest of game.

 

another effect I have noticed is that the AAA capabe ships that should cover you as DD, do the mussel behind the rocks a lot (more even than before) and are of little use, specially in first stages of the battle. What I do is sprinting towards them when planes come to me, at least they have to do something.

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