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Ramsalot

Hotfix feedback from premium CV perspective

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First, let me tell you that I am not a CV player, so if your goal is to drive people away from playing CVs it's totally fine by me!  In fact CV-less top tier matches were the norm for the most part, and I did enjoy those.

Second, latest hotfix made playing premium CVs ineffective in T10 matches.  I am doing my part, trying to stay away from the likes of Minotaur, Worcester, Des Moines, and trying to focus on stand alone ships to minimize my losses.  Still, by mid game I am literally deplaned, and forced to fly 2 plane squadrons that don't even get to targets before melting away.  You either need to find a way to move Saipan and Kaga away from T10 AA (tier 7 would be nice, oh wait...), or substantially increase plane regeneration cool-down.  If you want people to want those premiums that is.

Edited by Ramsalot
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3 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

First, let me tell you that I am not a CV player, so if your goal is to drive people away from playing CVs it's totally fine by me!  In fact CV-less top tier matches were the norm for the most part, and I did enjoy those.

Second, latest hotfix made playing premium CVs ineffective in T10 matches.  I am doing my part, trying to stay away from the likes of Minotaur, Worcester, Des Moines, and trying to focus on stand alone ships to minimize my losses.  Still, by mid game I am literally deplaned, and forced to fly 2 plane squadrons that don't even get to targets before melting away.  You either need to find a way to move Saipan and Kaga away from T10 AA (tier 7 would be nice, oh wait...), or substantially increase plane regeneration cool-down.  If you want people to want those premiums that is.

Deplaned? I thought there were infinite planes, you just needed to wait longer for them to load up once shot down?

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11 minutes ago, custer_14 said:

Deplaned? I thought there were infinite planes, you just needed to wait longer for them to load up once shot down?

I saw a red 0 on my planes more than once.  Game example: mid game, I am back the carrier, I am seeing 1 attack plane, 0 torpedo bombers, 2 dive bombers.  So, this means I am essentially deplaned.  I can sit there and wait a long, long, long time to get one of my squadrons to full strength, or keep taking out tiny squadrons of 1-2 planes and keep losing them.  Either way, you are sitting there useless, hence "deplaned".

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16 minutes ago, custer_14 said:

...I thought there were infinite planes...

There's "Aircraft Restoration Time" cool down in game, so it takes 135 seconds to "Restore" a single TB on Saipan.  It will take 13.5 minutes to restore full strength squadron.  How long does the game last?  How's that for "infinite"?

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10 minutes ago, custer_14 said:

Deplaned? I thought there were infinite planes, you just needed to wait longer for them to load up once shot down?

Effectively deplaned is still a thing.  It takes about 70 seconds on average to replace one plane for the IJN.  If you somehow manage to lose for example, ALL your torpedo bombers, you'll need to wait 15 minutes before you can launch a full squad of them.  You can launch partial squads of course, but with less planes to absorb damage you'll lose your few planes even faster.

On the other hand, I disagree with the OP's assessment, at least in regards to the Kaga.  It might be because I've always had a conservative play style, but I've been doing fine in Kaga and Shokaku after the hotfix in T10.  You definitely need to manually evade the AA on the way out and recall once you're out of flak range though.  My damage numbers have gone down a good amount to around 50k on a medium length game, but it is possible to avoid being deplaned.  It might be my personal opinion, but I'm fine with low CV damage since that damage tends to be applied where and when it's needed.  Plus, you bring a lot of utility.

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Just keep in mind that just about everyone is AA spec'ed out, right now, and they are sacrificing Surface to Surface Buffs to do it.

As for deplaning... I guess it's a thing, now. I won't be able to play until I get off work to see for myself... in about 6 hours.

I suspected the F key hotfix would have a major effect in plane losses, which in turn would finally trigger the wait time for respawning planes. That additional transference of damage from flak clouds to guns was likely a step too far, by the sounds of it.

The CV's XP gains need a look at, though... I'm not seeing a whole lot of XP gains at T4, anyways. Think it'll take 70 battles or so before I earn enough for a T6, at the rate I'm going; probably going to end up being closer to 90 due to the Hotfix.... (done 21 in random, so far, and 13 in coop.)

Edited by Hydra_360ci

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I have been a proponent of a 2 tier match maker for a long time and it seems that it would once again be a good Idea. Balancing the game would be so much easier and now that CVs are every other tier it makes even more sense. This is not WOT after all.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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12 minutes ago, custer_14 said:

Deplaned? I thought there were infinite planes, you just needed to wait longer for them to load up once shot down?

'infinite' has always been a misnomer. Assuming you start generating planes right from the battle start, your total at the end of 20 minutes would be pretty similar to pre-rework carrier hangar capacity, perhaps a touch less.

The timer system just means you can't lose all your planes in the first 8 minutes and be sitting on your thumbs for the next 12. noob-proofing if you will. But at the end of that 20 minutes, you'll have had potential to have about the same number of planes pre-rework.

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12 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

On the other hand, I disagree with the OP's assessment, at least in regards to the Kaga.  It might be because I've always had a conservative play style, but I've been doing fine in Kaga and Shokaku after the hotfix in T10.  You definitely need to manually evade the AA on the way out and recall once you're out of flak range though.  My damage numbers have gone down a good amount to around 50k on a medium length game, but it is possible to avoid being deplaned.  It might be my personal opinion, but I'm fine with low CV damage since that damage tends to be applied where and when it's needed.  Plus, you bring a lot of utility.

I respect your opinion, and I completely agree that doing 50k is within the grasp.  Having said that, this is a tier 8 premium ship that is less rewarding to play than pretty much any other solid tier 8 premium ship.  This is what I meant when I said "ineffective".  Why would I bring Kaga when I can load up Alabama and easily get twice the reward on consistent basis?

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This CV up-grade with the mini-patch is just screwing everything up-side down,  IT's time for my CVs to collect dust again this mess is just not working

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I have also played both the Kaga and Saipan today, both were tier ten matches. I did 50k'ish in both and was middle of the xp board. (basically a new CV player as well)

I had good players under me so we won, but I do feel like I contributed. I think at tier ten these bottom tier cv's need to play a support role above and beyond what most come here to do. Spotting, spotting and more spotting, drop fighters and hope they help. There weren't many real opportunities for damage but when there is...make it count.

At the end of the game I was also nearly deplaned but would send them off to spot bad guys as each game was close. Even though I lost them quickly, spotting their Mino still protected everyone even if it was every 25 seconds. I do feel each of the tech tree tier 8 cv's out damaged me as they were a smidge higher on their side of the board. 

Plus side, maybe more ways to play it based on MM, downside, hard to hit big numbers with these CV's in tier 10.

 

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Well something needs to change as my Lexington is a huge money loss every game ( 80-90K credits in the hole). Planes get wiped out almost every sortie and I manage to get maybe a couple of hits, that's it. I cant keep playing it ill be broke AGAIN in no time

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hmm no balance will ever happen  . Historically Carriers dominated everything  and dictated the terms and conditions  and the place of engagements. No surface ships ever had a chance against Carriers and this game is trying to force this. Wont work....ever

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2 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

I respect your opinion, and I completely agree that doing 50k is within the grasp.  Having said that, this is a tier 8 premium ship that is less rewarding to play than pretty much any other solid tier 8 premium ship.  This is what I meant when I said "ineffective".  Why would I bring Kaga when I can load up Alabama and easily get twice the reward on consistent basis?

That is also true!  It's important that a ship feels rewarding to play and Kaga does seem to feel a bit bland.  The question is, how to do it?  Right now I think it's a bit too early to say whether Kaga is OP or UP right now, and since I'm not a fan of having premiums be attractive to play because they're "strong". Her gimmick list right now is pretty long, but in an odd way nothing stands out because she's such a generalist.  Having 4 torps/drop is nice, but they do less damage than Ranger torps.  They're also only detected at 6.2km.  Her Dive Bombers are faster than Lex's, and drop for 4x8800 instead of 6x9200.  Solid, but nothing insane.  Finally her Rockets avoided the recent hotfix change, and have a 2x4 configuration.  All her planes are squishy but have more numbers.

I think Kaga would feel a lot more rewarding if she had some sort of offensive standout trait.  Right now all her major strengths are passive and revolve around not being hard to shut out completely.

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26 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

'infinite' has always been a misnomer. Assuming you start generating planes right from the battle start, your total at the end of 20 minutes would be pretty similar to pre-rework carrier hangar capacity, perhaps a touch less.

The timer system just means you can't lose all your planes in the first 8 minutes and be sitting on your thumbs for the next 12. noob-proofing if you will. But at the end of that 20 minutes, you'll have had potential to have about the same number of planes pre-rework.

Maybe we should have called it “trust fund planes”. You only get $20,000 per month from Daddy and if you blow it all by the middle of the month you have to stay at home playing video games until next month. 

For the record I’m not a trust fund baby. 

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Let me ask you this. Why do some CV players think they should have a constant stream of planes crapping out of their ship all match?

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46 minutes ago, Excuse_Maker said:

I think at tier ten these bottom tier cv's need to play a support role above and beyond what most come here to do. Spotting, spotting and more spotting, drop fighters and hope they help. There weren't many real opportunities for damage but when there is...make it count.

This seems like a good general description of T8 ships in a T10 match.  That said some ships up-tier very well, for example IMO Massachusetts does fine in T10 matches.  Other ships need to hang back, watch the minimap and manage their positioning very carefully to stay alive.  Saipan's gimmick (TX planes in small squadrons) should make it a very good ship for uptiered games, while it seems cruelly unfair to send Kaga's large squadrons of T6 planes against T10 AA.  The trade-off is that Kaga's large squadrons make it a beast when top tier. 

Edited by Eugenie_101

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20 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

Let me ask you this. Why do some CV players think they should have a constant stream of planes crapping out of their ship all match?

CV player uses plane squadrons to play the game.  You take away his planes, he has nothing to play with.

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11 minutes ago, Eugenie_101 said:

Saipan's (TX planes in small squadrons) should uptier very well

It does not.  Not only it has small squadrons that accumulate losses to a much larger degree than regular sized squadrons (you will easily lose over half of your squadrons strength in the strike now), it also has very limited reserves on flight deck with very long aircraft restoration timers.  If anything, it feels even more susceptible to deplaning than Kaga.

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1 hour ago, custer_14 said:

Deplaned? I thought there were infinite planes, you just needed to wait longer for them to load up once shot down?

Enterprise generally didn't have plane issues outside of TX matches before they got 'infinite' planes as well.

 

The real issue now is it gets stock planes with either a gimmick that you can barely use as Divebombers are trash, or you just get an extra attack run with attackers.

 

But all of your planes are the stock models of the Lexs, so outright inferior the entire time. Which was a hold-over from what it used to be, but the Gimmick is difficult to do anything with now that you are down 300 hp per plane.....annnnd 15 knots slower.

 

As for MM, it should have been +/-1 MM before, during and after rework, it would have fixed a lot of the issues.

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39 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

Let me ask you this. Why do some CV players think they should have a constant stream of planes crapping out of their ship all match?

"Why some bb players think they should be able to use his cannons all match"?

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1 hour ago, Kenjister said:

Effectively deplaned is still a thing.  It takes about 70 seconds on average to replace one plane for the IJN.  If you somehow manage to lose for example, ALL your torpedo bombers, you'll need to wait 15 minutes before you can launch a full squad of them.  You can launch partial squads of course, but with less planes to absorb damage you'll lose your few planes even faster.

On the other hand, I disagree with the OP's assessment, at least in regards to the Kaga.  It might be because I've always had a conservative play style, but I've been doing fine in Kaga and Shokaku after the hotfix in T10.  You definitely need to manually evade the AA on the way out and recall once you're out of flak range though.  My damage numbers have gone down a good amount to around 50k on a medium length game, but it is possible to avoid being deplaned.  It might be my personal opinion, but I'm fine with low CV damage since that damage tends to be applied where and when it's needed.  Plus, you bring a lot of utility.

Yeah, nothing like spending twenty minutes to do what a BB can do every 30-60 seconds. Enthralling. If only BBs could apply that damage where needed, I mean for sure only the enemy ships need to be killed and they are hitting non enemy ships apparently.

Edited by _Caliph_
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