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CaptainTeddybear

Opinions about the Gulio Cesare

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What is your favorite thing about it?

 

What do you think is OP about it?

 

What would be a tolerable nerf?

 

 

If there is no tolerable nerf for you just put None, no rants please.

  • Boring 1

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1. The maneuverability

2. The guns seem strangely accurate given the sigma and maximum dispersion

3. Increase the reload 2 seconds

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Not sure I have not played it enough to really form an opinion about it. 7 battles is all and I have had it for some time. I rather like the Roma because it hits hard when it does hit.

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1. Turret traverse speed

2. Speed, maneuverability and accuracy

3. Increase the turret traverse to 41 seconds and MB reload to 32 seconds

 

8 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

2. The guns seem strangely accurate given the sigma and maximum dispersion

This seems to be because of a very compact placement of turrets, here they are very close to each other, hence the tighter grouping of shells.

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+Good guns

+good speed 

+good frontal armour 

 

-weak side armour, easily citadeled side on 

-dispersion is frustrating sometimes even at close range 

-useless AA (not always though) 

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Leave it where it is, it is usually uptiered anyway, so changes are not necessary. 

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The ability the citadel any cruiser at any tier she played. That is what made the GC the must feared ninja pasta BB in its tier.  That is why she is always a priority target.

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5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The ability the citadel any cruiser at any tier she played. That is what made the GC the must feared ninja pasta BB in its tier.  That is why she is always a priority target.

I don't quite understand this ^. Any battleship can citadel any cruiser withing their MM if a cruiser shows broadside. And if it's not broadside then GC lacks shell caliber to overmatch most T5 cruisers' bow/stern armor which makes it no different to any other BB in her MM range. It also doesn't have any special normalization gimmicks or lower autobounce angle that some USN cruisers enjoy.

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

What is your favorite thing about it?

 

What do you think is OP about it?

 

What would be a tolerable nerf?

 

 

If there is no tolerable nerf for you just put None, no rants please.

  • The guns. I love excellent, reliable guns - they're what matter to me, more than anything, about the ship.
  • At her tier? Probably the speed. 
  • There is no tolerable nerf to a premium. Period. End of story. 

I have to add something else, too: has anyone else been playing Giulio since 8.0? Myself and a friend took two out last night and... it was ugly. The ship has no AA; virtually none. And she has no aircraft to pick up the slack, either. So in the current meta, this is a boat that gets dumped on a TON more than your average battleship. I don't believe Wargaming is even considering that as a mitigating factor.

Edited by Battleship_AndreaDoria

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2 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

What is your favorite thing about it?

 

What do you think is OP about it?

I think these two things are the same - it is simply a very comfortable battleship to play.  The GC has the handling and speed more akin to a cruiser than a battleship, particularly one at that tier.  This is the key advantage it has.  

 

Quote

What would be a tolerable nerf?

I think nerfs to the GC's concealment, agility and turret traverse should be tried first, particularly given this is what distinguishes it from other battleships at that tier like the NY.  It is also the key thing that distinguished good and experienced players from newbies at this tier - understanding concealment mechanics and making use of it, as well as timing 'swinging out' to get all guns on target then 'swinging back' to mitgate incoming damage.  Take that away, and you might pare back the overperformance at the top end...

Only if that isnt sufficient - then main battery reload should drop a second or two, to reduce DPM.  But tbh, I often find myself holding fire until the enemy has committed to a turn...

Edited by UltimateNewbie

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5 minutes ago, geser98 said:

I don't quite understand this ^. Any battleship can citadel any cruiser withing their MM if a cruiser shows broadside.

um no.... GC compared to other regular BBs in tier 5. Had the best AP to citadel  any cruiser no matter what tier she was played.

German BBs whom should be the best AP at close range, but can;t get close to the ninja pasta BB GC.  I would avg more citadels per game with the GC then any other BB in the tier.

Stats is one thing, in game performance is  another. Angled, GC is close to unsinkable.  Very fun BB to play.

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14 minutes ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

I have to add something else, too: has anyone else been playing Giulio since 8.0? Myself and a friend took two out last night and... it was ugly. The ship has no AA; virtually none. And she has no aircraft to pick up the slack, either. So in the current meta, this is a boat that gets dumped on a TON more than your average battleship. I don't believe Wargaming is even considering that as a mitigating factor.

 

I did make this point in an earlier thread. Any nerf is redundant at this point because Guilio Cesare has a total of 200 continuous DPS. For comparison the Texas has 800.

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I have the GC, not sure when or how I got it, probably bought it from the tech tree for doubloons when I was bored. I tend to buy stuff when bored....

Don't really have a dog in the fight though as it isn't a ship I use very much and probably couldn't have told you what tier it was before the move was announced. My opinion on the move is do it. Seriously I have no issue with them "fixing" ships that are considered by most, OP. I want them to be available to all the players, not just for people gambling their buttocks off buying crates, hoping for a "rare" ship. What I would like to see is getting the ships right in the first place before releasing them. Get them on the PTS for everyone to play, not just the CCs, and see how they perform and make adjustments before they are released. For the love of God, listen to LWM people (and I mean you Wargaming). That lady does freaking science and IMHO, hers is the only real opinion that matters. Give her a stipend that isn't based on generating anything but honest and fair reviews and listen to everything she says as if it comes from the mouth of God.

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If they do nerf Gulio Cesare, it should be on March 15. No sooner, no later.

Though, why nerf it at all? why not just take it off the market like every other OP premium? What is so special about GC? I have one, and she is fantastic to play and I admit is OP, but no more than the likes of Belfast and Nikolai.

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Just now, Navalpride33 said:

um no.... GC compared to other regular BBs in tier 5. Had the best AP to citadel  any cruiser no matter what tier she was played.

German BBs whom should be the best AP at close range, but can;t get close to the ninja pasta BB GC.  I would avg more citadels per game with the GC then any other BB in the tier.

Stats is one thing, in game performance is  another. Angled, GC is close to unsinkable.  Very fun BB to play.

I'm sorry but I'm still failing to understand your point. What about GC's AP is so good to citadel cruisers? Velocity? No. GC's AP shells are only marginally faster than Kongo's and significantly slower than Konig's. Caliber? Kongo has larger caliber and so does NY and Texas. Sigma? No again. Konig has higher sigma and so does Texas IIRC. 

There's literally nothing special about GC's AP shells. It simply just fires 10 shells which is awesome and grouping is often very neat, but shells themselves? Meh...

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22 minutes ago, geser98 said:

I'm sorry but I'm still failing to understand your point. What about GC's AP is so good to citadel cruisers? Velocity? No. GC's AP shells are only marginally faster than Kongo's and significantly slower than Konig's. Caliber? Kongo has larger caliber and so does NY and Texas. Sigma? No again. Konig has higher sigma and so does Texas IIRC. 

There's literally nothing special about GC's AP shells. It simply just fires 10 shells which is awesome and grouping is often very neat, but shells themselves? Meh...

Giulio has good accuracy, but in my experience, no, there's nothing special about her with regards to blapping cruisers compared to, say, a New York. At that tier, it's about people playing like fools and broadsiding you and such, and then you eviscerating them for their mistake. ANY battleship at tier 5 can do that. 

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GC is flexible, reliable and very punishing in the right hands. But, IMO, she isn't in the same league as the Belfast or Nikolai. She's still OP, don't get me wrong, but her strength mostly comes from the fact that she is a really good boat that is up against some pretty bad players in distinctly mediocre boats. The tier 5 cruisers are notorious for how often they get citadeled, and new players are always more interested in getting all of their guns on target than actually angling. Meanwhile, her counterparts in the tier 5 BBs can't really compete with her. The Kongo is still the best of them, but it can't flex as well as the GC can, and only has 8 guns (Which makes a big difference at a tier where accuracy is not up to par yet). The NY, TX and Konig all have a better broadside, but are gimped by awkward firing angles and mediocre speed. Haven't touched the British or French yet, but they seem to have similar issues. 

Wouldn't be hard to nerf her in a way that makes sense. 32 second reload would be a good start, as recompense for have a easily achievable 10 gun broadside at tier 5. Either nerf the concealment to 14.5km+, or decrease the range to ~14km. Bottom line is that the GC shouldn't be able to abuse stealth this easily while still have very competitive gun range. Especially considering most will put a CE captain on her. If that still isn't enough, maybe some mild nerfs to her turret rotation and rudder shift, but bumping her up a whole tier and expecting her to still be competitive is misguided, IMO. 

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I dont have it.

I'd like to have it

I cant wait for it to be at T6 so i can use one if i do get it in the Ops

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Leave it where it is, it is usually uptiered anyway, so changes are not necessary. 

This.  My favorite thing about GC is that it’s a tier 5 ship.  I already have both Warspite and Arizona at T6 (among with other “free” premiums like PEF and Spee), I really don’t need another T6.  GC is my T5 go to ship when I need one for division.

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53 minutes ago, CV_3_Sister_Sara said:

If they do nerf Gulio Cesare, it should be on March 15. No sooner, no later.

Though, why nerf it at all? why not just take it off the market like every other OP premium? What is so special about GC? I have one, and she is fantastic to play and I admit is OP, but no more than the likes of Belfast and Nikolai.

For starters, GC is a real historical ship. Maybe that aspect means nothing to you but it does for me and it really irks me that WG condemned several real ships to that damnation they call supercontainers. Every single ship that was on the santa crate advert banner were all built in steel. If they want rare OP ships to dangle in loot boxes like santa crates then I'm perfectly fine with that, so long as they're paper/fake ships they pulled out of their rear ends. Doesn't make sense that iconic museum ships like Belfast and Missouri are almost impossible to get while paper/fake ships like aSHITaka, Okhotnik and Hang Meh continue to be on sale.

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2 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

What is your favorite thing about it?

It doesn't matter if you face T7 or T5, the ship will still be stupidly powerful.

2 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

What do you think is OP about it?

A rather simple matter. When playing Ranked Sprint with her I never, not even once, felt like "damn, I wish I was in X or Y right now, that would make me stronger". There is no T5 BB which reaches her powerlevel as of now. Also her trollish bow, which practically prevents bow-citadels, is worth a note. Especially her concealment stands out. 

2 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

What would be a tolerable nerf?

One or several of the following, depending on what is desired:

a) reduction of sigma by 0.1

b) increase in reload by 2s

c) reduction of concealment by 500m

d) nerf to the HE fire chance and Alpha damage by 5% and 200 respectively

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What is your favorite thing about it?

What do you think is OP about it?

Same answer for each of these really (well, besides the fact that she's a BEAUTIFUL ship): She's got the total package of speed, agility, firepower, defense, and refigerator. The only thing about GC that can be said to be lacking is her AA defense, and that's not that big of a weakness even post-rework. She's like the KV-1S in World of Tanks before it got hit with the nerfbat so hard that it dropped a tier: There are ships at tier 5 that beat her in A category or two, but none that beats her in more than one consistently.

What would be a tolerable nerf?

Make the gunnery a bit more Roma-like and wonky, add some detection range, maybe tweak the reload a bit. She'd still be strong then, but not necessarily OP.

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39 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

I dont have it.

I'd like to have it

I cant wait for it to be at T6 so i can use one if i do get it in the Ops

 

GC does about the same damage as a T6 BB but her armor is closer to Cruiser levels than Tier 6 BB levels. I suspect it would literally be the worst Premium BB you could buy at Tier 6. Arizona, West Virginia, Mutsu and Warspite would be far superior choices at Tier 6.

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3 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

GC does about the same damage as a T6 BB but her armor is closer to Cruiser levels than Tier 6 BB levels. I suspect it would literally be the worst Premium BB you could buy at Tier 6. Arizona, West Virginia, Mutsu and Warspite would be far superior choices at Tier 6.

iDunno. When you put it like that GC is seeming very much like the lovechild of a Kongo and a Dunkerque; another tier 6 battleship that with excellent maneuverability and great guns, but armor that's "eh" at best (unless bow-tanking). I'm intrigued, this may not be even half as bad as the nay-sayers think.

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GC is how Italian BBs should be, not like that bastardization called the Roma. Accurate gunnery optimized for long range with extremely high penetration values and shell velocity. NOT a high concealment close range "brawler" with Innacurate guns while still having the long range optimized shells that at short range score nothing but overpens on cruiser citadels. I want the fuse arming time increased back to where it was before as this was sort of an unneeded buff for the ship. I don't think that is enough of a nerf though, it would need some more reload time on the guns as well to keep its DPM in line with the other T5 BBs. 

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