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CaptainTeddybear

How to avoid PTS failures

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Don't run it at the same time as a grind intensive Free ship campaign and Steel campaigns.

Don't run it during the Christmas holidays.

Give appropriate rewards.

PTS rewards must be greater than rewards for current campaigns and missions.

Listen to your better players and CCs

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Dragon flags are the hardest resource to come by.  You usually get 5-8 flags per PTS round.  You could have gotten a set of 24 flags if you played all 3 rounds of 8.0.  That's a pretty good reward. 

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6 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Dragon flags are the hardest resource to come by.  You usually get 5-8 flags per PTS round.  You could have gotten a set of 24 flags if you played all 3 rounds of 8.0.  That's a pretty good reward. 

The most experienced players don't need Dragon Flags.

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It has to be some sign up and require some amount of typed feedback.

Otherwise people will just go farm stuff on the PTS and not provide any valuable feedback.

People already probably just go there to gather insider info on how things will operate in the future to use to their advantage (meh this is common on MMORPG PTS servers)

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1 minute ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Otherwise people will just go farm stuff on the PTS and not provide any valuable feedback.

What would be wrong with  this if they fill the requirements for play on the PTS??? The whole point is to get people on the PTS to begin with, and just how much "feedback" do you think WG wants or needs? The failure of this round of PTS was lack of people playing resulting in lack of real pvp.. Seems to be they need to do something significant if they want to change this. If they gain an advantage, good for them, everyone has the chance to gain the same advantage.

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I mean... if they let you progress in the currently running campaigns on the PTS... people could try out new features, different boats.  All while grinding for stuff that they are interested in.  I looked at PTS.  Then Looked at the main server.  I chose the steel and the premium. 

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10 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

The most experienced players don't need Dragon Flags.

That's a crock.  Even experienced players are still grinding ships, which dragon flags accelerate.  And using them in CBs racks up a lot of elite cmdr xp and free xp.  

If you claim you have more free xp and elite cmdr xp to know what to do with, there's probably no rewards the PTS would help you with. They could throw in coal or steel, but they're not going to give those in any meaningful amounts for people to just farm. 

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11 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

What would be wrong with  this if they fill the requirements for play on the PTS??? The whole point is to get people on the PTS to begin with, and just how much "feedback" do you think WG wants or needs? The failure of this round of PTS was lack of people playing resulting in lack of real pvp.. Seems to be they need to do something significant if they want to change this. If they gain an advantage, good for them, everyone has the chance to gain the same advantage.

Requiring a sign up and requiring actual typed feedback is a significant change. (it adds a level of individual accountability for those who participate) Adding those additional benefits may entice more to participate which will also help though. 

Measured # metrics only provide so much. Im not saying the PTS players here took advantage of the situation. My opinion on what happened with the CV rework is different than most. And it doesnt bother me at all cause Ive seen reworked classes in other games, they always come out over tuned. Same thing happens with new classes added. Ive experienced this many times before.

 

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They probably did it purposely, to force the rework to get through without anyone whining about it since most is busy with the rewards on the live server. It’s here permanently so they are fixing as it goes. I like the rework because it made CVs more challenging instead of the low risk, high reward thing that the majority hate. Obviously some exploits flaw can’t be calculated due to most playing against bots due to lack of testers. 

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42 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

That's a crock.  Even experienced players are still grinding ships, which dragon flags accelerate.  And using them in CBs racks up a lot of elite cmdr xp and free xp.  

If you claim you have more free xp and elite cmdr xp to know what to do with, there's probably no rewards the PTS would help you with. They could throw in coal or steel, but they're not going to give those in any meaningful amounts for people to just farm. 

 

I don't need any Dragon flags and there are plenty of people who have been playing longer than me. I wasn't specifically thinking about what would get me to play, just that it was blatantly obvious that the rewards for missions and campaigns were much greater.

Even now you are much better off playing Ranked for rewards than what you would get from a PTS. What would get me to play? A bunch of Sierra Mike and India Delta flags, and I don't mean 10. I'm sure other people are different. You get 200 flags and 500 steel for just the first 2 ranks in Ranked.

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1 hour ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Requiring a sign up and requiring actual typed feedback is a significant change. 

Measured # metrics only provide so much. Im not saying the PTS players here took advantage of the situation. My opinion on what happened with the CV rework is different than most. And it doesnt bother me at all cause Ive seen reworked classes in other games, they always come out over tuned. Same thing happens with new classes added. Ive experienced this many times before.

 

Yep, pretty common. However, I have to say that thousands of games gathered over a few weeks provides a tremendous amount of data. Typed feedback can be very subjective. To be sure the issues would have been found much sooner if more people had just played on PTS. 

Sadly, few do that in any MMO. In fact most MMO's I've played offer no live game rewards for participating in PTS. So WG was better from my perspective.

Bottom line, I do agree that doing this over the Holiday events was a mistake. Who is giving up 200%XP days and gathering Santa crates?

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Appreciate the feedback on PTS.  To clarify on the Christmas holidays, the dev team actually celebrates at a different time so while all of us were drinking egg nog, they were hammering away and grabbing every bit of feedback they could see.

We are definitely discussing some of this internally and for those of you who did do CV testing especially over the holidays?  Thank you. Seriously.  Despite how anyone may feel about the update, you guys helped catch a number of bugs or issues that we wouldn't have wanted going live.  

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4 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

PTS rewards must be greater than rewards for current campaigns and missions.

Replace 1 day premium time and signal flags with steel and doubloons. Problem solved.

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3 hours ago, Radar_X said:

We are definitely discussing some of this internally and for those of you who did do CV testing especially over the holidays?  Thank you. Seriously.  Despite how anyone may feel about the update, you guys helped catch a number of bugs or issues that we wouldn't have wanted going live.  

Well, you guy did it horribly on the last PTS#3 where you push a longass CV missions with the T9 Ranked.

 

You guy could just push the CV mission long enough to finish a part of campaign, then some other class missions to complete the whole campaign, doesnt lengthen much but it contains full course you guys estimated, just make sure people think they're doing 2 at once

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7 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Appreciate the feedback on PTS.  To clarify on the Christmas holidays, the dev team actually celebrates at a different time so while all of us were drinking egg nog, they were hammering away and grabbing every bit of feedback they could see.

We are definitely discussing some of this internally and for those of you who did do CV testing especially over the holidays?  Thank you. Seriously.  Despite how anyone may feel about the update, you guys helped catch a number of bugs or issues that we wouldn't have wanted going live.  

To increase the participation, why not have TPS be a game mode (like scenarios). It would have to be "opt-in" since the download package is probably pretty high. But then players wouldn't need a separate login, separate game, etc. 

If you made the XP earned in PTS available as freeXP in the current game, that would go a long way to increasing the players willing to get involved. 

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I made this point before on a different thread but it bears repeating. To get more participation on the PTS, they need to attract people with rewards and figure out a way that their time there isn't wasted. What I mean is the game is a grind, it is designed to be a grind, and with so many events going on, players who elect to test stuff out on the PTS, lose out on the Live server. You literally are getting boned by helping out. Handing out a handful of signal flags and 24 hours of premium time isn't really going to attract much of anyone. There needs to be a way to play on the test server and collect the rewards on the Live server. An example being the dailies. Get them done on the PTS, you get those rewards on the Live. Also maybe give players a portion of Free XP, ship XP, and Captain XP earned on the PTS and transfer it to their accounts. The details could be hammered out but players won't use the test server as long as they have to grind on the live server. The rewards are crap and they lose out on so much. It is a big ask of players and Wargaming is doing nothing to attract them. Also special vanity flags or camos could be designed for PTS participants. None of this is difficult to gronk, you want players to test, incentivize it. 

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10 hours ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Requiring a sign up and requiring actual typed feedback is a significant change. (it adds a level of individual accountability for those who participate) Adding those additional benefits may entice more to participate which will also help though. 

Measured # metrics only provide so much. Im not saying the PTS players here took advantage of the situation. My opinion on what happened with the CV rework is different than most. And it doesnt bother me at all cause Ive seen reworked classes in other games, they always come out over tuned. Same thing happens with new classes added. Ive experienced this many times before.

 

If they aren't participating now, having them write essays isn't going to help.. the issue is with the lack of compensation that would draw people to the server. Homework is going to make less people participate, not more. *If* WG wants to improve PTS performance, they need to change the compensation system to one where it DOES draw people into the PTS system.    Heck, I am mouthy as heck and give them all sorts of feedback, but they don't want me as a Super... WG has been told directly by the user base exactly why people are not participating in the PTS. It is their own fault it failed... 100%

Metrics... the only metrics that were useful from the PTS were the mechanical things that could be looked at. What they missed entirely is what would happen when it was all PvP  It is precisely because WG failed at getting PTS participation that we are in this situation. It is again 100% their own and they could have avoided it completely if they were not so stubborn .. it almost feels as if regardless of how good a thought might be, if it not their idea, it is rejected offhand.

I am severely critical of WG because I can see paths to better operation and performance that they seem to have blinders on about... 
 

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9 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Appreciate the feedback on PTS.  To clarify on the Christmas holidays, the dev team actually celebrates at a different time so while all of us were drinking egg nog, they were hammering away and grabbing every bit of feedback they could see.

We are definitely discussing some of this internally and for those of you who did do CV testing especially over the holidays?  Thank you. Seriously.  Despite how anyone may feel about the update, you guys helped catch a number of bugs or issues that we wouldn't have wanted going live.  

Thanks for engaging...

You missed the point...  the player base was too busy with all the opportunities on the live server over the holidays... that was the complaint... that the dev team was ready and able is good, but the issue is the lack of players on the PTS, not the lack of devs to study the data....  ???

I am not sure how to structure this comment... but I feel your response ignores points being made in this thread.  I really do appreciate the interaction. please consider how it looks when you do not address the subject of a thread. oOf course you could deem this as a criticism of a Mod and delete this comment...  :( 

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12 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Don't run it at the same time as a grind intensive Free ship campaign and Steel campaigns.

Don't run it during the Christmas holidays.

Give appropriate rewards.

PTS rewards must be greater than rewards for current campaigns and missions.

Listen to your better players and CCs

Run it on live.

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