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CaptainTeddybear

F key hotfix

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I wouldnt say remove, but it should increasse the CD of the plane squad. I fyou use the F key your saqud take longer to recharge.

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3 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

You do realize that even if you removed manual recall of planes (F key), the planes that have dropped their ordinance would still recall after each attack run, right? You do realize that increasing the altitude planes must reach to be safe affects those, right? You do realize that planes engaged in this recall are no longer under the control of the player, and thus can't play the whole "dodge the flak to not get insta-wrecked" game, right?

+1

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1 hour ago, Radar_X said:

We are looking forward to seeing everyone's feedback tomorrow on this.  Obviously the team is still iterating and if the 0.8.1 changes don't put the game where it needs to be, there will be more adjustments.  Definitely share your experience with us!

I'm interested to try it out. It will be a fairly fine line to balance. Too short and you end up with the situation we have now. Too long, and carriers will be unable to avoid losing significant numbers of aircraft even when attacking ships with poor AA.

 

Instead of balancing via the climbing time, I'd rather see the balancing down on the other end: when the planes get back to the CV. Having planes restore a percentage of one plane to the reserve instead of a full plane would penalize cycling squads too quickly. You can even make that restoration % scale with how much health the aircraft had when it got home, such that damaging (but not shooting down) planes has more direct impact.

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

Lul.

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3 minutes ago, JdeMolay said:

I want an F key for my DD's. When I get radared I can just press F.

And what? Just rise out of the water and ascend to a safe altitude? There's a ship that can do something like that, but in the opposite direction: submarines. ;)

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5 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

I'm interested to try it out. It will be a fairly fine line to balance. Too short and you end up with the situation we have now. Too long, and carriers will be unable to avoid losing significant numbers of aircraft even when attacking ships with poor AA.

 

Instead of balancing via the climbing time, I'd rather see the balancing down on the other end: when the planes get back to the CV. Having planes restore a percentage of one plane to the reserve instead of a full plane would penalize cycling squads too quickly. You can even make that restoration % scale with how much health the aircraft had when it got home, such that damaging (but not shooting down) planes has more direct impact.

The problem is there is no skill a CV can acquire to stop the damage AA is going to do particularly short and medium automatic damage. Even dodging flak bursts is a guess as a full squad is too large to fit through the gaps and sharp turns burn through boost. CVs are going to take damage to planes for just attacking. To then set it where they are eventually deplaned for attacking is akin to having barrel wear on ships firing guns. There is no fundamental reason for one class to face punitive punishment for attacking while the rest do not.

Edited by _Caliph_

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9 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

You do realize that even if you removed manual recall of planes (F key), the planes that have dropped their ordinance would still recall after each attack run, right? You do realize that increasing the altitude planes must reach to be safe affects those, right? You do realize that planes engaged in this recall are no longer under the control of the player, and thus can't play the whole "dodge the flak to not get insta-wrecked" game, right?

So what are you trying say ?

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11 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

You do realize that even if you removed manual recall of planes (F key), the planes that have dropped their ordinance would still recall after each attack run, right? You do realize that increasing the altitude planes must reach to be safe affects those, right? You do realize that planes engaged in this recall are no longer under the control of the player, and thus can't play the whole "dodge the flak to not get insta-wrecked" game, right?

You do realize that CVs are the only ship not penalized for getting into a bad position or making an attack they shouldn't have.

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What I'm concerned is the time it takes for the planes to reach the new height in order to be immune from attacks. 

If it only takes like 4 seconds (double the current setting) for planes to rise up and be immune, it isn't enough.

Make the planes rise up for 6-8 seconds before being immune so that AA can still have a chance to decimate them.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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Just now, clammboy said:

So what are you trying say ?

It was in response to someone saying,

"I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate"

Increasing the time it takes planes to reach safe altitude has the potential to have significant impact on a carrier's ability to continue to fight. If that delay is made too long, CVs will hemorrhage planes on every attack, even when targeting isolated ships with fairly poor AA. I don't expect WG to make long enough of a delay for that to be the case of course, but my point was it is potentially a very large change. Saying it will be "completely inadequate" without even seeing how long WG makes the delay is incredibly short-sighted.

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1 minute ago, Frenotx said:

It was in response to someone saying,

"I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate"

Increasing the time it takes planes to reach safe altitude has the potential to have significant impact on a carrier's ability to continue to fight. If that delay is made too long, CVs will hemorrhage planes on every attack, even when targeting isolated ships with fairly poor AA. I don't expect WG to make long enough of a delay for that to be the case of course, but my point was it is potentially a very large change. Saying it will be "completely inadequate" without even seeing how long WG makes the delay is incredibly short-sighted.

I got it now .

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate.

Especially if AA is still mostly in the flak burst damage. As has been shown in multiple vids, the AA targeting is completely unable to account for course or altitude changes. Climbing planes will only have to worry about the continuous damage (which is getting buffed a little) as the burst will always be below them.

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I honestly, do not see the hot fix working much better, F key issue aside. Currently, AA is designed with one thing in mind: "Let the CV planes through on the initial pass." This is why DDs sometimes shoot down 5 at a time. The whole F key thingy was design to return the planes to the CV so that the other team could not see where the CV is. It is all about the CV survival so removing the F will not work. 

Remember, what we have now is a product of much testing by players and WG. In all their testing they did not have the imagination to do what the CV players are doing now. What makes anyone think, they put the needed testing in to make next round so that the game is fair?

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51 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

You do realize that CVs are the only ship not penalized for getting into a bad position or making an attack they shouldn't have.

The opposite. All ships are penalized for getting into a bad position and carriers is no different. As an example you will see a lot in lower tier battles the cv player sailing the carrier into a corner. They are getting penalized in two different manners: first they are too far from the battle and they will lose precious time in flying their planes to the the action , second they aim the carrier bow to the border, this also makes them losing precious time with the planes in turning. I am play very agressive with the carriers and i like to be as close to the battle for not wasting time to reach the action, and with this in mind i have to keep a eye on the minimap all the time to change location if needed however sometimes one dd spot me and i am serious in trouble.

Also "...or making an attack they shouldn't have." again the opposite. Sometimes i make wrong evaluations about the situation and attack where i shouldn't . I will not hit my target and worst i will lose all my planes in the squadron, and this is the worst thing that can happen to a carrier player. Now i will be forced to use another squadron that is not the best for  my objective and i will not help team at my full potential for the next minutes.

So in the end there is no difference.

Edited by _no_one_

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1 hour ago, Swine_007 said:

Why would they not just change it so that the F key sends the player back to pick a new squadron, BUT any planes still loaded with ordinance stay at low altitude and are subject to AA fire ?  If the idea is to get the player quickly back to the CV to get a new squad,  and stay in the game, then do that but at the cost of likely losing what ever planes didn't attack.  

That would force the cv driver to make an effort to drive the remaining planes out of danger before hitting F to return or accepting the loss of the planes by hitting F to go back to the cv immediately.  

Leave it to a lad from Ontario to come up with the most reasonable, level headed solution. +1

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1 hour ago, _Caliph_ said:

The problem is there is no skill a CV can acquire to stop the damage AA is going to do particularly short and medium automatic damage. Even dodging flak bursts is a guess as a full squad is too large to fit through the gaps and sharp turns burn through boost. CVs are going to take damage to planes for just attacking. To then set it where they are eventually deplaned for attacking is akin to having barrel wear on ships firing guns. There is no fundamental reason for one class to face punitive punishment for attacking while the rest do not.

UNLIMITED PLANES

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48 minutes ago, _no_one_ said:

Also "...or making an attack they shouldn't have." again the opposite. Sometimes i make wrong evaluations about the situation and attack where i shouldn't . I will not hit my target and worst i will lose all my planes in the squadron, and this is the worst thing that can happen to a carrier player. Now i will be forced to use another squadron that is not the best for  my objective and i will not help team at my full potential for the next minutes.

 

That is what should happen but instead you can just press the F key and be teleported to safety.

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19 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

That is what should happen but instead you can just press the F key and be teleported to safety.

wrong again. I press the F key after the first wave or second wave when i know is not woth it. The situation i am talking about is as the most common example to try to attack a target with backup near him. Sometimes is so fast and deadly the flak that all squadron dies in 1 second. lol

I invite you to play carriers to have a better picture about them. You have the idea that is too easy to play with them when in reality is not.

Edited by _no_one_

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30 minutes ago, legozer said:

UNLIMITED PLANES

Yeah bro! Unlimited!

Remedial.

Edited by _Caliph_

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21 minutes ago, _no_one_ said:

wrong again. I press the F key after the first wave or second wave when i know is not woth it. The situation i am talking about is as the most common example to try to attack a target with backup near him. Sometimes is so fast and deadly the flak that all squadron dies in 1 second. lol

I invite you to play carriers to have a better picture about them. You have the idea that is too easy to play with them when in reality is not.

Any other ship this situation gets sunk and the player gets sent back to port. Worst case scenario for the CV is losing planes. Unless you are playing the Atlanta you have extremely limited charges on your Defensive Fire. A CV should not be able to just press the F key and completely negate it.

  • Cool 2

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18 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

Yeah bro! Unlimited!

Remedial.

So, the issue you have is that there is no skill a CV can use to limit damage to planes that are unlimited. It's like complaining that other ships have armour, so it's unfair that your shells cant cit them with every shot.

The CV ship type does not face punitive damage for attacking. The squad does, but then you can launch another squad after it's killed off, and then another and another and another. Other ship types take actual damage that affects them directly. If they take too much damage, they are out of the game. If a squadron takes too much damage OOPSIE DAISY ME MAKE BAAAADZ MISTAKE START AGAIN LOLLLZ.

 

  • Cool 2

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4 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

They don't want to eliminate the f key spam because they know the fix IS NOT INADEQUATE..

But they have put themselves in a corner..to fix it properly would require a significant rework of the rework...I just posted on this!!

They need to wake up. Players want a fix not this nonsense and right now the CV rework is doing the opposite of what its suppose to do..attract players to CVs and in that they are failing badly

 

Edited by Anij

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25 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Any other ship this situation gets sunk and the player gets sent back to port. Worst case scenario for the CV is losing planes. Unless you are playing the Atlanta you have extremely limited charges on your Defensive Fire. A CV should not be able to just press the F key and completely negate it.

"Worst case scenario for the CV is losing planes." That is the part you don't understand. The moment the carrier player lose is planes is contribution to help the team won is gone. He could be dead and would not make any difference. That is why is so important for the carrier player to evaluate all the attacks he makes and if can bring the planes back. But why don't you go and try to play with carriers to see with your own eyes how it plays? It would be much better than make false statements in the forum.



 

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3 minutes ago, _no_one_ said:

"Worst case scenario for the CV is losing planes." That is the part you don't understand. The moment the carrier player lose is planes is contribution to help the team won is gone. He could be dead and would not make any difference. That is why is so important for the carrier player to evaluate all the attacks he makes and if can bring the planes back. But why don't you go and try to play with carriers to see with your own eyes how it plays? It would be much better than make false statements in the forum.

 

You are acting like CVs don't regenerate planes and in addition you have other planes you can use while those regenerate. So you are actually in a much better position than a BB that takes a sizable amount of damage and has to avoid combat for a long time so he can use several repairs.

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1 hour ago, legozer said:

So, the issue you have is that there is no skill a CV can use to limit damage to planes that are unlimited. It's like complaining that other ships have armour, so it's unfair that your shells cant cit them with every shot.

The CV ship type does not face punitive damage for attacking. The squad does, but then you can launch another squad after it's killed off, and then another and another and another. Other ship types take actual damage that affects them directly. If they take too much damage, they are out of the game. If a squadron takes too much damage OOPSIE DAISY ME MAKE BAAAADZ MISTAKE START AGAIN LOLLLZ.

 

I've run out of a given type of plane in co-op already. In a Haku. Was then forced to use dive bombers, which got shredded as I wasn't built with modules for DB. Couple that with the snowball effect of not having a full squadron's worth of HP to begin with and yes... they melt. FAST. Unlimited in total for aircraft yes.. but you're up a creek when you're having to rely on using rocket planes against BB's until your 'reload' gets to the point where it won't get insta-killed.

Granted the fight was over by the time this happened, but it does/CAN happen.

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