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CaptainTeddybear

F key hotfix

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Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

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5 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

or give her a cooldown like DCP.

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7 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

Agreed. There should be no invulnerability if you're in a ships' AA bubble. If you don't want your planes shot down, keep 'em on the flight deck.

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F key functionality is basically mandatory for the lower/mid tier CV's to function at an adequate level.

 

The key is going to be making it so that the *cough cough* Hak can't abuse it anymore.

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We are looking forward to seeing everyone's feedback tomorrow on this.  Obviously the team is still iterating and if the 0.8.1 changes don't put the game where it needs to be, there will be more adjustments.  Definitely share your experience with us!

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No, they just need to make the F key not be able to be used if your planes are under AA or Fighter attack. Its that simple. 

It was being abused precisely because people were hitting it when the planes were getting shot at after the attack run. 

That being said, dive bombers need to have their speed boosted for X seconds after their dive attack so they can get away in equivalent time that fighters/torp bombers can...no other plane essentially hovers over a target for 6 or so seconds. 

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It wouldn’t bother me if they kept the current function (instant recall and invulnerability), but tied it to a 90-120 second cooldown. Alternatively, giving it no cooldown but increased vulnerability to AA seems fine, assuming that there’s enough of a damage window for planes that are in heavy AA to continue to take a serious beating before getting to escape.

Edited by SkaerKrow

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2 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

No, they just need to make the F key not be able to be used if your planes are under AA or Fighter attack. Its that simple. 

It was being abused precisely because people were hitting it when the planes were getting shot at after the attack run. 

That being said, dive bombers need to have their speed boosted for X seconds after their dive attack so they can get away in equivalent time that fighters/torp bombers can...no other plane essentially hovers over a target for 6 or so seconds. 

Or fighter attack? Once a fighter has aggro'd your planes, it doesn't quit chasing you. That completely defeats the purpose and functionality of the F key.

 

While some high tier planes can out run the fighters, lower tier planes cannot. That means there's zero counter play. Zero counter play on the surface ship side of things is a current problem. 

 

Let's not solve one problem by creating another problem.

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

It wouldn’t bother me if they kept the current function (instant recall and invulnerability), but tied it to a 90-120 cooldown. Alternatively, giving it no cooldown but increased vulnerability to AA seems fine, assuming that there’s enough of a damage window for planes that are in heavy AA to continue to take a serious beating before getting to escape.

 

They do not currently have instant invunerability. Once the F key is hit, planes climb to a high altitude where the reds can't see them any more. Once out of view, AA can't target them anymore. But they're perfectly target able by AA while climbing. The hotfix notes mention that they're increasing the time in which AA can target planes during the climb in confirmation of this.

 

*edit*

There's also currently no way to land planes outside of hitting the F button. They can't tie it to a cooldown without completely wrecking the entire rework.

Edited by Spartias

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2 minutes ago, Spartias said:

Or fighter attack? Once a fighter has aggro'd your planes, it doesn't quit chasing you. That completely defeats the purpose and functionality of the F key.

 

While some high tier planes can out run the fighters, lower tier planes cannot. That means there's zero counter play. Zero counter play on the surface ship side of things is a current problem. 

 

Let's not solve one problem by creating another problem.

 

This solution makes as much sense as giving high tier Destroyers an F key recall to deal with all the Radar, Hydro, Fighters, Spotters and Attack planes.

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2 minutes ago, Spartias said:

 

They do not currently have instant invunerability. Once the F key is hit, planes climb to a high altitude where the reds can't see them any more. Once out of view, AA can't target them anymore. But they're perfectly target able by AA while climbing. The hotfix notes mention that they're increasing the time in which AA can target planes during the climb in confirmation of this.

 

*edit*

There's also currently no way to land planes outside of hitting the F button. They can't tie it to a cooldown without completely wrecking the entire rework.

 

An even bigger issue is as soon as you hit the F key another squadron starts taking off.

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24 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

We are looking forward to seeing everyone's feedback tomorrow on this.  Obviously the team is still iterating and if the 0.8.1 changes don't put the game where it needs to be, there will be more adjustments.  Definitely share your experience with us!

as a hotfix , sure ok, but i expect more in the future.

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9 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

 

An even bigger issue is as soon as you hit the F key another squadron starts taking off.

Why couldn't another squadron be taking off as the previous squadron returns to the carrier? 

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14 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

 

An even bigger issue is as soon as you hit the F key another squadron starts taking off.

 

What do you expect though? Other than the Hak, damage is generally down across the board for CV's. They've lost the ability to use simultaneous squadrons, something they were historically able to do.

 

If damage is generally down, why would you nerf that? The Hak is insane and needs the nerf bat badly. But the others? I'm not convinced.

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One step at a time, let's see how this works out and go on from there. WG has shown that if there are urgent issues the game will be hotfixed quite often, let alone getting large patches once a month.

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39 minutes ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

Agreed. There should be no invulnerability if you're in a ships' AA bubble. If you don't want your planes shot down, keep 'em on the flight deck.

You mean like a BBs attacks are invulnerable and can’t be shot down? Yes those who want to play other ships don’t want CVs to be able to attack any ships who all have 80+ AA ratings in tier 9/10 matches. 

Ship AA prevents carrier squadrons from attacking 3 times like they’re supposed to, and can only attack once. What’s the typical next complaint?  “So what if they can only attack once with one squadron now: make it so half of the planes wipe out even if they attack once!”

Edited by SeigeTank2010

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47 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

Neither is possible. Carriers don't work without the F key. If I launch a flight, and do all the attacks possible, or  all the planes are shot down, I need the F key to get back to the carrier to launch the next flight. It's not just used to recall a flight, it's how you exit the plane interface and get back to the ship interface 

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Why would they not just change it so that the F key sends the player back to pick a new squadron, BUT any planes still loaded with ordinance stay at low altitude and are subject to AA fire ?  If the idea is to get the player quickly back to the CV to get a new squad,  and stay in the game, then do that but at the cost of likely losing what ever planes didn't attack.  

That would force the cv driver to make an effort to drive the remaining planes out of danger before hitting F to return or accepting the loss of the planes by hitting F to go back to the cv immediately.  

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13 minutes ago, Spartias said:

 

What do you expect though? Other than the Hak, damage is generally down across the board for CV's. They've lost the ability to use simultaneous squadrons, something they were historically able to do.

 

If damage is generally down, why would you nerf that? The Hak is insane and needs the nerf bat badly. But the others? I'm not convinced.

 

Because it's mainly only down at Tier 8 because they are fighting a lot of Tier 10 AA ships, with full AA captains and full AA modules. If people have to play that way from now on they are going to quickly lose interest.

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3 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

Neither is possible. Carriers don't work without the F key. If I launch a flight, and do all the attacks possible, or  all the planes are shot down, I need the F key to get back to the carrier to launch the next flight. It's not just used to recall a flight, it's how you exit the plane interface and get back to the ship interface 

 

That should be 2 separate buttons.

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16 minutes ago, Spartias said:

 

What do you expect though? Other than the Hak, damage is generally down across the board for CV's. They've lost the ability to use simultaneous squadrons, something they were historically able to do.

 

If damage is generally down, why would you nerf that? The Hak is insane and needs the nerf bat badly. But the others? I'm not convinced.

Because some people just hate CVs in general and want to see them completely knee-capped if not removed entirely.

Said types rarely care much for nuance and will pick extreme outliers, such as how OP the Hakuryu is right now, to justify nerfing all CVs instead of going after the outliers.

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56 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

We are looking forward to seeing everyone's feedback tomorrow on this.  Obviously the team is still iterating and if the 0.8.1 changes don't put the game where it needs to be, there will be more adjustments.  Definitely share your experience with us!

PLEASE be careful as this is the only way a midway can get one attack in (when we're supposed to be able to get three attacks in, hence AA was and is already robbing a carrier of what it's supposed to be able to do) without wiping our your planes.  With this delay, now not only are you only allowed to attack once, it will be a guarantee half your planes will wipe out, then you basically will ruin the CV.

And the tier X IJN needs to give range of torpedoes to 4km otherwise that's a HUGE advantage to be able to drop longer ranges: you can avoid AA and get all three attacks every time while USN cannot.  That's too HUGE of an advantage. 

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7 minutes ago, SeigeTank2010 said:

PLEASE be careful as this is the only way a midway can get one attack in (when we're supposed to be able to get three attacks in, hence AA was and is already robbing a carrier of what it's supposed to be able to do) without wiping our your planes.  With this delay, now not only are you only allowed to attack once, it will be a guarantee half your planes will wipe out, then you basically will ruin the CV.

As a CV player myself, I agree it will probably create some pain at first for CVs in general.  But I also think it's a necessary step to achieving balance.

If CVs are found to lose too many planes with a nerfed recall, then they can be buffed in other ways.  Maybe plane HP, maybe regen times, who knows?  But right now, it's annoying for the surface ships because the CV can easily pull out heavily damaged planes that should otherwise be killed, and it having the recall be that good also makes it so the planes can't be buffed in other areas.

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1 hour ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default).

 

I don't even have to see this in action to know it is completely inadequate. F key recall should be removed completely or changed to a consumable with no more than 3 charges.

You do realize that even if you removed manual recall of planes (F key), the planes that have dropped their ordinance would still recall after each attack run, right? You do realize that increasing the altitude planes must reach to be safe affects those, right? You do realize that planes engaged in this recall are no longer under the control of the player, and thus can't play the whole "dodge the flak to not get insta-wrecked" game, right?

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I want an F key for my DD's. When I get radared I can just press F.

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