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S842

"Hot Fix" better be good

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Ok, this is a little bit a rant, but just got out of a battle with my Scharnhorst.  I have AFT, Manual AA, four fighters, also reinforced sides that were attacked.  Over the course of the battle I was constant harassed by two CV's and shot down ZERO planes.  Both CV's were very good at using the F7 key to never lose a plane, and keep me under attack constantly.  After the battle I had a good chat with the tier 8 CV and he completely agreed that the situation needed fixing.

I know that Wargaming is trying to quickly remedy the nightmare they created, and some of the things they are looking at doing can be read in the Developers Corner.  However, it certainly highlights that WarGaming is not properly developing and pre-testing changes to the game, and this was a major revision.  It is bad for the customer experience, and consequently bad for their business if players leave the game through frustration.  I already play tanks about 10% as much as before, and I hope that ships does not meet the same fate.   

 

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Hot fix is far from enough, Haku is still way over powered!!

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Hotfix notes have been posted here.

You can decide for yourself whether they're what you were hoping for.

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now instead of 2 rocket planes attacking,i have 3.

thank you WG.

Edited by Cruxdei
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14 minutes ago, S842 said:

Ok, this is a little bit a rant, but just got out of a battle with my Scharnhorst.  I have AFT, Manual AA, four fighters, also reinforced sides that were attacked.  Over the course of the battle I was constant harassed by two CV's and shot down ZERO planes.  Both CV's were very good at using the F7 key to never lose a plane, and keep me under attack constantly.  After the battle I had a good chat with the tier 8 CV and he completely agreed that the situation needed fixing.

I know that Wargaming is trying to quickly remedy the nightmare they created, and some of the things they are looking at doing can be read in the Developers Corner.  However, it certainly highlights that WarGaming is not properly developing and pre-testing changes to the game, and this was a major revision.  It is bad for the customer experience, and consequently bad for their business if players leave the game through frustration.  I already play tanks about 10% as much as before, and I hope that ships does not meet the same fate.   

 

I've had my Gneisenau out a few times since 8.0. AFT, BFT, but no other AA spec, and I don't bother with sector reinforcement. 

I don't typically shoot many planes down, but they never make a second pass, so I assume I'm banging them up enough to make them recall. 

It probably matters just how good the CV player is at avoiding flak.

From my own CV experience, players that come straight in can take heavy losses before dropping, players who randomly WASD to avoid flak might get through unscathed, but often get smacked by a burst or two, and players that know how to actively dodge don't usually lose any planes.

They are shifting some of the damage from flak to continuous DPS though, so that should help.

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Well, from what I can tell, they've made it so the Haku is MORE likely to just throw out random torp soup because AIMING got worse...if you just throw them out, same as before, but if you wanna AIM...they are harder to use...oooook, so yeah, less aiming more random torpedos, got it.

Also, now try to fly away from ships for a second or two before you hit F.   

Otherwise all they did was massively drop flooding chances, which is where most peoples damage was coming from, so it'll be a major hit to CV damage totals overall I think.    50% reduction in flooding chance is a bit enormous.

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I see they are extending the commander retraining period until Feb.11.  That, at least, is a good move.

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I look forward to reading the various impressions of the hotfix after it goes live. I will be playing scenarios as I never enjoyed being a beta tester. 

Good luck and fair seas.

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The Hot Fix is probably going to be one of many fixes that will be coming to the game in the future.  This CV rework is going to be  a constant thing for awhile.

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Had you been on my team, I would have +1'd you (just like I do with those players that can kite two or three BBs away from the action).

If the two CVs were on you, yeah, it's a game of dodge, but they weren't focused on the rest of your team.    Provided you stayed alive most of the game, that could take a significant impact away from the rest of your team.

I'm sure your DDs were happy with you "taking one for the team".

Not saying this as a jab, or being a smartass.   While it does suck to be the attention of a CV (or both), the bright side is that you freed up your team as they chased you around mercilessly.

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The hotfix will not live up to anyone's expectations.    Remember... you heard it here first.

This is going to be a long process.

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3 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Yavuz said:

The Hot Fix is probably going to be one of many fixes that will be coming to the game in the future.  This CV rework is going to be  a constant thing for awhile.

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner. 

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24 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

Well, from what I can tell, they've made it so the Haku is MORE likely to just throw out random torp soup because AIMING got worse...if you just throw them out, same as before, but if you wanna AIM...they are harder to use...oooook, so yeah, less aiming more random torpedos, got it.

Yeah, but they've lengthened the attack prep, and reduced the number of planes per drop, so as per the "Flying Shimakaze" video, you're not going to be able to drop as many torps as quickly.

Don't know exactly how much difference that will make, but it will make some. And the shifting of damage from flak to DPS will make it somewhat (again dunno how much) harder to get all the drops in.

IOW, it won't stop the tactic, (which I would think preferable) but it should mean fewer torps in the water.

Edit: my bad, it's only attack planes getting attack wing size changed to 3.

Edited by Skpstr

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3 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

The hotfix will not live up to anyone's expectations.    Remember... you heard it here first.

This is going to be a long process.

Depends, if you're expecting a long process.....:Smile_trollface:

But yeah, I don't think they're going to be swinging any sledgehammers.

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36 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

Otherwise all they did was massively drop flooding chances, which is where most peoples damage was coming from, so it'll be a major hit to CV damage totals overall I think.    50% reduction in flooding chance is a bit enormous.

I'm gonna have to agree with this point. I've had plenty of games in Hakuryu (in co-op, where AA is mysteriously effective because the bots sail in groups) where out of 8 torp hits on a single ship, I get exactly 0 floods and I need to land 2 to even get one to stick. I say the 'flying Shimakaze' analogy is wrong, I'm a flying Umikaze or Wakatake. Shima torps are dog gone devastating, even if they don't cause a flood and no Shima can reload like my planes can. Umikaze on the other hand spits out low damage torps every 20-30 seconds and just pecks things to death through volume of fire. I'm a tier 10 ship with torpedoes equivalent to a tier 3 DD except possibly for the flood chance and it looks like that will soon be changing. I can't rely on rockets to set fires, because they have proven to be fairly unreliable at that and destruction expert adds 1% to the fire chance, not even worth it. All that really leaves are my AP bombs which are actually pretty good but require careful aiming and timing to get truly good damage numbers and it's fairly easy to dodge the brunt of them because of how precise the aim has to be. 

Did I mention that I have to drop the torps pretty much right at the arming distance indicator to get hits on bots? Many people don't know that the bots are fiendishly good at dodging torps because they seem to know where your torps are before you do. I tried the 8 km torps on Hakuryu in the training rooms a few times vs. active, armed T10 bots with the strongest AI setting and decided they were going to be utterly useless on anything other than the larger tier 10 BBs due to that arming distance, so I don't really care about what happens to them. This all adds up to me being very concerned about this hotfix as playing in co-op means you need to not only be able to carry your own weight, but possibly that of half or more of you team. So far I can do this in any BB, CL, CA, CC (battlecruiser), or DD that I have, most of the time. The only CV I have that can do this on a regular basis is Hakuryu. Shokaku, Ryujo, and Hosho cannot do enough damage fast enough or reliably enough in some cases due to the flak. I'll see what happens when the hotfix happens, but it feels like a sledgehammer nerf to me, especially considering how flooding is changing in the next major patch.

Edited by CaptHarlock_222
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10 minutes ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

I'm gonna have to agree with this point. I've had plenty of games in Hakuryu (in co-op, where AA is mysteriously effective because the bots sail in groups) where out of 8 torp hits on a single ship, I get exactly 0 floods and I need to land 2 to even get one to stick. I say the 'flying Shimakaze' analogy is wrong, I'm a flying Umikaze or Wakatake. Shima torps are dog gone devastating, even if they don't cause a flood and no Shima can reload like my planes can. Umikaze on the other hand spits out low damage torps every 20-30 seconds and just pecks things to death through volume of fire. I'm a tier 10 ship with torpedoes equivalent to a tier 3 DD except possibly for the flood chance and it looks like that will soon be changing. I can't rely on rockets to set fires, because they have proven to be fairly unreliable at that and destruction expert adds 1% to the fire chance, not even worth it. All that really leaves are my AP bombs which are actually pretty good but require careful aiming and timing to get truly good damage numbers and it's fairly easy to dodge the brunt of them because of how precise the aim has to be. 

Did I mention that I have to drop the torps pretty much right at the arming distance indicator to get hits on bots? Many people don't know that the bots are fiendishly good at dodging torps because they seem to know where your torps are before you do. I tried the 8 km torps on Hakuryu in the training rooms a few times vs. active, armed T10 bots with the strongest AI setting and decided they were going to be utterly useless on anything other than the larger tier 10 BBs due to that arming distance, so I don't really care about what happens to them. This all adds up to me being very concerned about this hotfix as playing in co-op means you need to not only be able to carry your own weight, but possibly that of half or more of you team. So far I can do this in any BB, CL, CA, CC (battlecruiser), or DD that I have, most of the time. The only CV I have that can do this on a regular basis is Hakuryu. Shokaku, Ryujo, and Hosho cannot do enough damage fast enough or reliably enough in some cases due to the flak. I'll see what happens when the hotfix happens, but it feels like a sledgehammer nerf to me, especially considering how flooding is changing in the next major patch.

The bots are why "Flying Shimakaze" doesn't work in PvE. You can't cook a good torpedo soup if the enemy doesn't bunch up, and actually makes you have to aim to hit something. 

Flying Shimakaze is just spamming barely aimed (or not even) torps as fast as you can, into an area with a bunch of ships,  (as opposed to attacking a specific target) and coming back to the same area as quickly as possible, and do it again.

You basically flood the area with enough torps that some will hit, and the enemy is constantly having to dodge torps from before they get out of the spawn, so they don't end up going anywhere.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, S842 said:

Ok, this is a little bit a rant, but just got out of a battle with my Scharnhorst. 

WG really needs to make Scharnhorst a T8 ship.  It's currently way too much fun at T7.  

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I know that, but I've never been much of a fan or randomly spewing torps at distant targets anyways, unless I'm using it to dissuade a pursuer (Kii and Graf Spee are what I do this in the most). I'm saying the flying shimakaze name makes no sense when the torps themselves are nothing like Shimakaze torps or how it fires them. Right now it's more akin to what iChase did back in the day, intentionally fail divving to get an Umikaze into a T10 match and harassing the BBs the whole time without ever being spotted. Normally, I'll run what I'm calling rolling torp scissors, making as many runs as possible on an enemy BB, by zig zagging to try and stack up floods. It took me all of 3 matches to figure out how effective that is. If I fail to get more than 1 flood, I'll try and follow up with rockets for fires, but this is one heck of a roll of the dice and it doesn't pay off most of the time, not in fires anyway. Usually, one half of my damage comes purely from flooding and that is the only thing keeping me at damage levels above tier 3 cruiser levels most of the time (I was going to say tier 4, but then I remembered that I'm a force of nature in Kuma).

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