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Excuse_Maker

How to Saipan?

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I am experiencing anger related issues concerning this ship right now that borders on wishing I could help friends move furniture up three flights of stairs rather than play this thing.

I only get tier ten games. Before I nerd rage and start another thread screaming for a refund, I thought I would ask for help.

So, …..please help.....

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Ah yes I feel ur pain. I finally got the Haka and now all is well until they nerf it’s stupid torps with long range and quad drop. I’m not sure what features set apart the Saipan from the other T8 CVs but the first part of any strike is flak dodging. Yes at T10 flak and the DoT can eat planes. For now, flak is what melts whole squadrons. If you’re planes are red, don’t bother because the DoT will kill them. I also take armor, HP for my planes and speed, all skills necessary to strike and survive and repeat. Now, depending on Saipans gimmick, it’ll be about picking targets. T10 cruisers will melt you. Some aren’t so bad but until you get familiar with which ones are meat grinders, stick to BBs and DDs. Recall planes if they start getting munched. Having an empty carrier is like having your [edited] in your hand. 

It often will be rough slogging but understand that beyond the Haka, the T10 CVs aren’t super noticeably different. Planes are a little faster with more HP and planes per squadron. Haka gets the dumb area denial torpedoes as an option but I don’t use those. I learned how to really dodge flak well in my T8 vs T10 AA. Now in my T10 Haka I get Worcesters mad that they can only shoot down a couple planes while I strike repeatedly. That’s due to most AA damage coming from flak and not the DoT aura. Good luck! 

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Where I am really struggling is, I can't do anything with this or the Kaga, yet the Shokaku I can do 50-60k at tier ten games and 100k at 6-8tiers. Just this Saipan and Kaga, just isn't happinin for me.

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Kaga I did okay in, Saipan is about to earn itself a handicapped placard. So I'll be watching this thread; simply because I'd really like to know how to make it work worth a damn as well.

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I made another post about giving the Saipan a choice between the Tiny Tim's and the HVAR 127mm rockets.  I am having not much luck hitting things with the TT's, and in one game I got 3 Pens on a light cruiser (can't remember the exact boat) and it did 6000 damage total.  The listed damage on the TT's is 5400 each, so....Had way more misses than hits with the TT's.

Also, the torp bomber aiming and spread is really wonky and I think needs work.

I am averaging 60k in my Kaga and 46k in the Saipan since the re-work, the torps work much better in the Kaga than the Saipan, IMO as well as the Rockets.

This is from the Hotfix notes (going in tomorrow morning) and should help the Bombers.

  • To increase the effectiveness of attacks, we added resistance to AA damage for bombers at the time of readiness to attack (when the aiming indicator turns green). In this phase of the attack, all bombers will receive 30% less damage.
Edited by digitaljustice
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You're not alone, many are having issues with the Saipan, best way to play her now, is leave her in port! :Smile_hiding:

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My suggestion is ignore the fact you have torpedo planes.  The V pattern sucks on them, they take wayyyyyyyyyyy to long to aim compared to just about any other CV.  The rockets are fantastic i did a 10k dmg run on a BB with them, i believe they are Tiny Tim rockets.   Dive bombers can also do nice damage problem with them is they tend to take losses.   Do everything you can to prevent your planes from dying in the saipan its plane regen is HORRIBLE.   If you can get your CV in as close to the battle behind an island or something and exploit fast returning air groups.

Saipans planes are hella fast make use of the turn around speed.  I still say saipan is garbage atm, her torp bombers are really bad, she doesnt regen planes worth crap, her planes are not that tough and will die to the insane dmg of some AA very quickly.  AA atm is all over the place in damage so some things that shouldnt do much obliterate you while a DM is weak to moderate AA.

Kaga is in much better place but its planes are still to weak for T10 games, squadron size means crap all when all of your squadron take damage even when they arent dropping.   Whole patchs balance is a flaming dumpster fire.  I like the CV game play but so much of the balance is just wrong for both the cv and surface ships.

Edited by JToney3449

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35 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

My suggestion is ignore the fact you have torpedo planes.  The V pattern sucks on them, they take wayyyyyyyyyyy to long to aim compared to just about any other CV.  The rockets are fantastic i did a 10k dmg run on a BB with them, i believe they are Tiny Tim rockets.   Dive bombers can also do nice damage problem with them is they tend to take losses.   Do everything you can to prevent your planes from dying in the saipan its plane regen is HORRIBLE.   If you can get your CV in as close to the battle behind an island or something and exploit fast returning air groups.

Saipans planes are hella fast make use of the turn around speed.  I still say saipan is garbage atm, her torp bombers are really bad, she doesnt regen planes worth crap, her planes are not that tough and will die to the insane dmg of some AA very quickly.  AA atm is all over the place in damage so some things that shouldnt do much obliterate you while a DM is weak to moderate AA.

Kaga is in much better place but its planes are still to weak for T10 games, squadron size means crap all when all of your squadron take damage even when they arent dropping.   Whole patchs balance is a flaming dumpster fire.  I like the CV game play but so much of the balance is just wrong for both the cv and surface ships.

I'll revisit her, but my rocket planes feel like I am throwing jellybeans at 5000 feet.

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I almost wanted to sell her but my friend talked me out of it and told me to wait.

My suggestion, play other CV. She really is that bad at the moment.

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39 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

My suggestion is ignore the fact you have torpedo planes.  The V pattern sucks on them, they take wayyyyyyyyyyy to long to aim compared to just about any other CV.  The rockets are fantastic i did a 10k dmg run on a BB with them, i believe they are Tiny Tim rockets.   Dive bombers can also do nice damage problem with them is they tend to take losses.   Do everything you can to prevent your planes from dying in the saipan its plane regen is HORRIBLE.   If you can get your CV in as close to the battle behind an island or something and exploit fast returning air groups.

Saipans planes are hella fast make use of the turn around speed.  I still say saipan is garbage atm, her torp bombers are really bad, she doesnt regen planes worth crap, her planes are not that tough and will die to the insane dmg of some AA very quickly.  AA atm is all over the place in damage so some things that shouldnt do much obliterate you while a DM is weak to moderate AA.

Kaga is in much better place but its planes are still to weak for T10 games, squadron size means crap all when all of your squadron take damage even when they arent dropping.   Whole patchs balance is a flaming dumpster fire.  I like the CV game play but so much of the balance is just wrong for both the cv and surface ships.

Don’t buff the torp planes...buff the bombers.  It makes a huge difference.  You have a heal on torp planes and without the buff on bombers they just get incinerated. The regen rates plus available planes makes it mandatory to use all squads with the Saipan.

As long as you buff the bombers and rarely employ the third attack squad (unless you are full strength) then you should see a big performance increase from the perceived torp only meta.  Buff fire starting abilities...not flood.  This is the ship’s strength.  It took me awhile to figure this out.  Rockets, bombs, then torps.  Do not forget to use your rockets as they have more pen than bombs and can allow some regen time on everyone else.  You have to rotate all three.

The Saipan is a firebug.  Play it that way and you won’t regret it.  And, once the flood changes take effect, it will become even more obvious.

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Saipan is 2/3 of a Midway, and Midway itself is pretty crap right now. So, 2/3 of crap is what, again?

In the hotfix, you'll get a pretty significant buff to your ability to do damage and survive the initial approach, thanks to the passive 30% damage reduction during the obscenely long aiming period on USN ordnance. Of course, this may be totally offset by the fact that F-key evac is taking a hard nerf, and Saipan has such tiny plane reserves to begin with.

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saipan and enterprise got the short end of the stick,with the update that i call "lexington's revenge".

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5 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

saipan and enterprise got the short end of the stick,with the update that i call "lexington's revenge".

pretty soon lexington is gonna get hit with "Make way for Yorktown"

basically going to introduce the free player's Enterprise

Edited by Ace6steel

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7 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Saipan is 2/3 of a Midway, and Midway itself is pretty crap right now. So, 2/3 of crap is what, again?

 

I hate when math is involved, but, pretty sure crap is part of the answer....

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18 minutes ago, OppressorUnion said:

I almost wanted to sell her but my friend talked me out of it and told me to wait.

My suggestion, play other CV. She really is that bad at the moment.

I appreciate that, I am not a CV guy but have them. I wanted to make a full effort on all of them so I could at least talk the talk and walk the walk.

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I'll explain best I can how I'm having success in it, it's just kinda hard cause well, I just do, don't think. 

 

Basically - regardless of team makeup, rockets first. They are typically better than DB's (cover them later) and a bit easier to aim than TB's. The one downside is that DD's have to usually wither be dumb enough to have long range AA on, or need another group/ship spotting them for best effect. You actually wanna start your attack run at around normal speed roughly 5.5 to 6 km out, and have the stuff that increases the rate at which they aim in. Try to limit maneuvering too much to get that nice tight aim point, open the throttle up to throw AA off a bit and depending on ship type once it's on the ship or the super structure - fire away and break off to pull range for your next attack run or head to next target. For DD's it also helps if you can memorize where they are and what speed/direction before they vanish to make runs on them, especially when they smoke up, think they are safe - and eat 3 tiny tim's (on a lucky strike in terms of number).

Her TB's are a tad tricky - but they can be devastating. This may sound stupid, but don't be afraid to attack head on or directly from the stern. Both can force the ship to either stay straight, or in to a turn - which, just like a proper cross drop (not the point blank manual drop overloads) in RTS - drop the next set that ram right into them because of their turn/inability to. Which can even setup the third strike to hit as they try and turn. It's also best to NOT use the old 90 degree tactic all the manual drop players used, you want to ideally come angled from the stern or bow depending on what way the ship is moving (stern forward, bow reverse), with these torps in particularly as much as you want them to run at the the enemy, you also need them to run WITH them. Same as when players had to aim longer range attacks in RTS with or without manual drop. Which, even if they turn with them and dodge - they are now pinned for the follow up attack. The key, usually, is trying to maneuver as little as possible. Again, the speed and acceleration can help you dodge not insane flak.

DB's USUALLY are more the "other 2 need time to regen" weapon. They need a proper "run starts here" point, but I've found that somewhere between just about where the oval hits and about halfway in usually works. If it's off a bit, don't be afraid to wait till the last second to drop bombs or if green ad the mark is right on the ship, drop when level still. You want to start slightly in front of the ship show it's under you as you start the dive. You can actually use a side approach as if you use A/D the DB's are surprisingly able to turn to come parallel with the ship, putting more of the aim point on it, and likely scoring more hits. These things will seriously hurt DD's when they hit, and even cruisers (actually detonated a Hindenburg yesterday I think it was - some higher tier German cruiser). My best successes have been releasing almost at the last second. That said, they can also cause havoc for BB's between hits and fires. 

 

Pretty much every CV is screwed in some way at the moment - this rework was half baked, but they wanted it now. So, it's going to take time to fix things. Saipan does need some tweaks, no doubt. But matches where they don't end early and/or I load late I'm usually getting 80-100k damage. Even a couple with late loads I've pulled 100k - against tier 10. But I had to steer clear of every Des, Mino and Salem I saw because F me those things are more OP than in RTS at downing planes.

 

I would say hang on to it and see if it gets fixed a bit but yeah - that's the best I can try and describe how I'm having success with it. 

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4 minutes ago, Ace6steel said:

pretty soon lexington is gonna get hit with "Make way for Yorktown"

basically going to introduce the free player's Enterprise

the "support" carrier? we don't even know what they gonna look like. gameplay wise.

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12 minutes ago, Uber_Ghost said:

Don’t buff the torp planes...buff the bombers.  It makes a huge difference.  You have a heal on torp planes and without the buff on bombers they just get incinerated. The regen rates plus available planes makes it mandatory to use all squads with the Saipan.

As long as you buff the bombers and rarely employ the third attack squad (unless you are full strength) then you should see a big performance increase from the perceived torp only meta.  Buff fire starting abilities...not flood.  This is the ship’s strength.  It took me awhile to figure this out.  Rockets, bombs, then torps.  Do not forget to use your rockets as they have more pen than bombs and can allow some regen time on everyone else.  You have to rotate all three.

The Saipan is a firebug.  Play it that way and you won’t regret it.  And, once the flood changes take effect, it will become even more obvious.

Ty as well, I'll try it.

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

the "support" carrier? we don't even know what they gonna look like. gameplay wise.

I would assume slightly less DPM and more fighter consumables

basically a better CV for air cover and defense

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4 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

I'll explain best I can how I'm having success in it, it's just kinda hard cause well, I just do, don't think. 

 

Basically - regardless of team makeup, rockets first. They are typically better than DB's (cover them later) and a bit easier to aim than TB's. The one downside is that DD's have to usually wither be dumb enough to have long range AA on, or need another group/ship spotting them for best effect. You actually wanna start your attack run at around normal speed roughly 5.5 to 6 km out, and have the stuff that increases the rate at which they aim in. Try to limit maneuvering too much to get that nice tight aim point, open the throttle up to throw AA off a bit and depending on ship type once it's on the ship or the super structure - fire away and break off to pull range for your next attack run or head to next target. For DD's it also helps if you can memorize where they are and what speed/direction before they vanish to make runs on them, especially when they smoke up, think they are safe - and eat 3 tiny tim's (on a lucky strike in terms of number).

Her TB's are a tad tricky - but they can be devastating. This may sound stupid, but don't be afraid to attack head on or directly from the stern. Both can force the ship to either stay straight, or in to a turn - which, just like a proper cross drop (not the point blank manual drop overloads) in RTS - drop the next set that ram right into them because of their turn/inability to. Which can even setup the third strike to hit as they try and turn. It's also best to NOT use the old 90 degree tactic all the manual drop players used, you want to ideally come angled from the stern or bow depending on what way the ship is moving (stern forward, bow reverse), with these torps in particularly as much as you want them to run at the the enemy, you also need them to run WITH them. Same as when players had to aim longer range attacks in RTS with or without manual drop. Which, even if they turn with them and dodge - they are now pinned for the follow up attack. The key, usually, is trying to maneuver as little as possible. Again, the speed and acceleration can help you dodge not insane flak.

DB's USUALLY are more the "other 2 need time to regen" weapon. They need a proper "run starts here" point, but I've found that somewhere between just about where the oval hits and about halfway in usually works. If it's off a bit, don't be afraid to wait till the last second to drop bombs or if green ad the mark is right on the ship, drop when level still. You want to start slightly in front of the ship show it's under you as you start the dive. You can actually use a side approach as if you use A/D the DB's are surprisingly able to turn to come parallel with the ship, putting more of the aim point on it, and likely scoring more hits. These things will seriously hurt DD's when they hit, and even cruisers (actually detonated a Hindenburg yesterday I think it was - some higher tier German cruiser). My best successes have been releasing almost at the last second. That said, they can also cause havoc for BB's between hits and fires. 

 

Pretty much every CV is screwed in some way at the moment - this rework was half baked, but they wanted it now. So, it's going to take time to fix things. Saipan does need some tweaks, no doubt. But matches where they don't end early and/or I load late I'm usually getting 80-100k damage. Even a couple with late loads I've pulled 100k - against tier 10. But I had to steer clear of every Des, Mino and Salem I saw because F me those things are more OP than in RTS at downing planes.

 

I would say hang on to it and see if it gets fixed a bit but yeah - that's the best I can try and describe how I'm having success with it. 

See the source image

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