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jags_domain

The real reason DD dont like the CV rework

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For years the DD has not really had an effective counter. They could sit in smoke and target what ever was spotted and farm for free. Yes you could blind fire but that is iffy at best.

Next came radar. Its short dereration and shot range. Once radar is down your stealth is restored and you can go back to not being seen.

Fun for DD but not for anyone else. When a CV did show up and spotted the DD it was off to the forums to complain about CV being OP.

They werent OP but DD did bot have to be worried about being spotted before and were not use to it.

CV were always suppose to be in the game as a counter to DD. Now they are.

The new CV is far better for DD than the RTS because its one plane only.

To illustrate. Just had a game were a DD was going around an island to a CO sitting the cap.

Old days: DD comes around torps the CO takes the cap.

New days: I saw that he was probably going to do that, I sent planes spotted him and CO took him out. Not planes but the BB.

DD and CV lost alot with the patch. CV lost there entire play stile. Everything they liked about it. DD cant just sail around not be spotted and do what they want.

This is a good thing. Every one complains about campers and non team play. Well not alot less camping and more team play. More games are going to the wire than before.

This is a great thing for WOW. 

Embarrass the change like many DD have and doing well or don't.

Adapt and over come!

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20 hours ago, jags_domain said:

DD cant just sail around not be spotted and do what they want.

So, the lowest HP ships in the game, being spotted and focused fire within 45 seconds of the match starting,,,,,, before they can arm torps,,,,, before they're in range to spot, shoot or torp anything,,,,,, being rocketed and focus fired to death is an 'adapt' moment for you.   As we say in the south, bless your heart.

Update: Some idiot was stupid enough to downvote this.  LOL  Must've been jags_domain.  LOL

Edited by SeaborneSumo
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1 minute ago, Vaitmana said:

Spoken like you have the stats to back it up... oh wait

Stat shaming.   Not cool.

Not surprising, but not cool.

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Just now, JCC45 said:

 

Stat shaming.   Not cool.

Not surprising, but not cool.

I just find it funny, that most radical statements are made by people who got little clue. All I can sayis, its the internet, adapt and overcome!

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4 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

 

Stat shaming.   Not cool.

Not surprising, but not cool.

it's actually pretty cool because the OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

Edited by HorrorRoach
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8 minutes ago, HorrorRoach said:

it's actually pretty cool because the OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

So DD have not had it all. DD havw not had to deal with being spotted. How is that not true?

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16 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

Spoken like you have the stats to back it up... oh wait

The only person that cares about stats is you. Amd you had something to say ot would have been nice. But you live in your stat shaming world.

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10 minutes ago, HorrorRoach said:

it's actually pretty cool because the OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

No it isn't.  But he didn't attach a Meme or .gif, so he probably gets a pass.

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23 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

> snip <

Adapt and over come!

This, coming from someone who:

  • Has only played DDs no more than 10% of his total matches
  • Is terrible in the few DDs matches he's played
  • Is terrible in everything else he plays

Almost invariably, it's the guy who is the least capable who comes here to tell others how things are and how they should play.

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5 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

The only person that cares about stats is you. Amd you had something to say ot would have been nice. But you live in your stat shaming world.

No, in this world no opinion is equal. Do you pit what a 5yo says on the same scale as what a PHD says? Might not be the best analogy, but if for example, Flamu said and showed that dds are completely fine and majority just suck, I would accept that. But then there is you, and anything I know about you are your stats...

Should I take your word as absolute truth?

Edited by Vaitmana
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28 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

For years the DD has not really had an effective counter. They could sit in smoke and target what ever was spotted and farm for free. Yes you could blind fire but that is iffy at best.

The counter was other DDs. I still get DD kills by torping smoke. If I have friendlies nearby, I charge smoke and dodge the torps. And DDs have limited numbers of smoke.

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The old days:

DD's could OWSF.

CV's could permanently spot destroyers.

Once smoke lifted, destroyers were dead meat.

......

Now, with a few exceptions, a destroyer has to play around his smoke.

Rockets and manual dropped torps can guarantee a destroyer has no safety net.

I have noticed a severe drop in damage output and survival. 

Play the caps mid to late game and you can influence the match. Rush caps early, die early.

.....

The team that pushes together will take caps and win.

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If you stay in groups of three or four the planes can't really muck you up as badly.  Sure, I'm a lowly cruiser player - but it works.  We've even had DD's grouping instead of just running off alone to die.  It's a team game - more so now than before (or so it feels).  If you're in a group of three or four CV's will have a really hard time getting to you.

I can understand people might be upset because they have to change how they play - but that's just how it is, we all to have to learn and change it up.  Instead of groups of two with a bunch of solo DD's... there's now more mini squadron based play for covering each other with Anti Air to negate the CV's.

As for scouting and spotting, yes - i understand that was a DD thing to poke out a bit.  But now, it's to dangerous.  Let your CV's spot, stick to your team, work together, win more matches.

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Jags never could play well with DDs

Do we expect anything else?

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What you're all failing to understand is that in a "blob up and sail together" meta there is no point to taking a stealthy DD short of being a smoke mule for your team. Your guns can't reach the enemy and are weak compared to cruisers and BBs anyway, your torps generally can't reach the enemy and aren't going to be very effective regardless if fired at long ranges and from the direction the enemy team is already angling against. 

And honestly if you really wanted to be a smoke mule just bring a British cruiser or a Kutuzov and actually be useful while smoking up your team. You can try to adapt a hammer into being a wrench all you want but at a certain point if there is no use for the hammer why keep using it? 

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55 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

For years the DD has not really had an effective counter. They could sit in smoke and target what ever was spotted and farm for free. Yes you could blind fire but that is iffy at best.

If it was so easy to play DDs why your stats with them are terrible?

55 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

This is a good thing. Every one complains about campers and non team play. Well not alot less camping and more team play. More games are going to the wire than before.

Wut? I had more games ending by time this last week than i had in months before. The game is much more passive now.

 

And what team play? A lemming train is not team work. Sitting in spawn the entire game is not team work. Most players dont have a clue of what team work is. 

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Since these claims or ones very similar have appears many, many times in the forum I would think the OP is attempting to troll.

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48 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

 

Stat shaming.   Not cool.

Not surprising, but not cool.

When you're going to speak like you're an authority on the issue, you'd better have the resume to back it up.  Would you take medical advice from janitor?  Would a MLB hitter take hitting advice from fisherman?    Stats are your resume in a game like this.  So if your stats stink, your "authoritative" opinions will be far less respected.  And that's why stats matter in a situation like this.

Want to talk about what maps you like or dislike?  Knock yourself out.  Stats don't matter when it comes to likes and dislikes such as that.  But if you're going to try to sound like a voice of authority, you'd better have the credentials to back it up.

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28 minutes ago, Sarnith said:

If you stay in groups of three or four the planes can't really muck you up as badly.  Sure, I'm a lowly cruiser player - but it works.  We've even had DD's grouping instead of just running off alone to die.  It's a team game - more so now than before (or so it feels).  If you're in a group of three or four CV's will have a really hard time getting to you.

I can understand people might be upset because they have to change how they play - but that's just how it is, we all to have to learn and change it up.  Instead of groups of two with a bunch of solo DD's... there's now more mini squadron based play for covering each other with Anti Air to negate the CV's.

As for scouting and spotting, yes - i understand that was a DD thing to poke out a bit.  But now, it's to dangerous.  Let your CV's spot, stick to your team, work together, win more matches.

 

This argument irritates me because games are significantly determined by map control, something you give up when you cluster up. Additionally, clustered ships are vulnerable to long range torpedo soup. This is especially true at Tier X right now. If you stay in groups of three or four you're giving the enemy team the initiative in hopes of fighting off planes. Sure, you may survive the air attacks a bit longer, but you'll be less capable of catching enemy ships out of position, catching battleship and cruiser broadsides, and you'll usually lose the game against any team with an average W/R higher than the OP's.

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Breaking news, another "I know everything about destroyers" player commenting on something he knows nothing about. 

In other news, water is wet! 

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Before 8.0 DD typically had the lowest survival rates, and did the least damage. I imagine that hasn't changed.

 

Destroyers did and do have several counters, one of the big problems with the class is that it counters itself too well. Two DD can rip each other to bits in 30s. Two moderately intelligent and angled Montana's bump into each other? That's going to be a fun 5 minutes of occasional chunk damage.

 

This CV rework can effortlessly reduce overall engagement in the game. If you doubled CV numbers from last year at the expense of reducing destroyers by just 10%, then you've had a net reduction in battles.

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10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

When you're going to speak like you're an authority on the issue, you'd better have the resume to back it up. 

I tend to agree, but I look at the number of battles. The OP doesn't have a lot in mid-upper tier DDs. Win rate can be deceptive with so few battles played.

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OP is not incorrect in that the DD was king and now is relegated to a more traditional role. CVs now spot more efficiently than DDs which changes the dynamic of DD play since DDs are now spotted by something that most can’t strike back. There’s smoke and AA from smoke no longer spots but most DDs don’t do much. So now the DD that caps usually dies the first unless supported by a friendly CV as any cruiser on cap at the same time would melt. So basically DDs that play as they used to before 8.0 get violated. 

They should. Not for being DDs but for not adapting. The best DDs I see now are patient. The team that usually wins now is the one that doesn’t rush caps and utilizes the CV and DD spotting to soften a team. The move in battle groups with cruisers on the flanks, BBs down the mid, and DDs out front scouting while still inside the AA bubble. Overlapping flak patterns and auras melt planes of any tier. People still haven’t picked up on how this update promotes team play and less solo warriors. I don’t feel bad for DDs since I do still see good/smart DDs dominate games with smart play instead of trying to rush caps as if there aren’t a bunch of flying machines with rockets trying to kill them. I feel bad for the BBs that can’t defend themselves at all. OP is not incorrect about a simple observation that can be made by anyone of any skill level. I find stat shamers and elitist to be far more toxic to the game than any ship or update.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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2 hours ago, jags_domain said:

This is a good thing. Every one complains about campers and non team play. Well not alot less camping and more team play. More games are going to the wire than before.

This is a great thing for WOW. 

I'm glad we have people like you who understand DDs and are able to speak on their behalf … 

I'm just a bit confused by your reasoning - you want DDs to disappear right?

 

Why is it you're talking?

What if I come back as a CV and nuke your BBaby Butt - is that ok?

Edited by Commander_367

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