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TheArc

Conspiracy theory? Maybe 8.0 made DDs easier to spot because...

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Conspiracy theory? Maybe 8.0 made DDs easier to spot because it would give them more room in the meta to introduce subs as a stealthy hunter class, which some DDs were doing very well?

I donno... was just one of those "shower thoughts" things.

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All ships are easier to spot, there's no conspiracy.

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So you are saying that there is going to be a DD rework?  After the disaster of the CV rework, do you think WG would go down that road again with another class, and after how many years development? 

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While DDs are easier to spot with the new CVs rework they are still hard to hit at range (if the DD driver is any good).

CAs &  CLs get spotted even earlier (especially with of the stealth nerf coming in at the same time as the rework) but are a lot easier to hit at range by BBs whose guns have a lot longer reach and hit a lot harder.  They are slower, turn slower, accelerate slower and most do not have smoke to hide in.

 

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25 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

All ships are easier to spot, there's no conspiracy.

4 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

While DDs are easier to spot with the new CVs rework they are still hard to hit at range (if the DD driver is any good).

CAs &  CLs get spotted even earlier (especially with of the stealth nerf coming in at the same time as the rework) but are a lot easier to hit at range by BBs whose guns have a lot longer reach and hit a lot harder.  They are slower, turn slower, accelerate slower and most do not have smoke to hide in.

Yes, but the difference between a 2-3 km spotting range and a 5+ spotting range from the air is significant with the ability to sneak behind lines. As they already demonstrated "proof of concept" with subs in the Halloween... a part of me just got wondering about it as some deeper concept to why WG might do this.

13 minutes ago, Squib_Surefire said:

So you are saying that there is going to be a DD rework?  After the disaster of the CV rework, do you think WG would go down that road again with another class, and after how many years development? 

No, I'm saying that there won't be a DD rework. I am enjoying 8.0, though I definitely think there should tweaking done and was happy to read the notes. I do however think that the timing of the subs last Halloween and the way that everything is so much easier to spot now seemed suspicious. 

--------

Anyway, was just crazy tinfoil hat thoughts... 

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I dohowever think that the timing of the subslast Halloween and the way that everything is so much easier to spot now seemed suspicious. 

 

How do you connect the subs with the stealth/vision nerf brought on with 8.0? Not being a smarta**, just trying to track the shower thinking.

Personally I see no conspiracy. I think it all boils down to WG marketing gurus determining that Console gamers are the hot market for growth (console gamers *generally* spend more than us PC schlubs so I hear), and the new CV gameplay is oriented towards them. Fun and Engaging for controller play. 

Or....maybe thats another conspiracy theory. Who knows?

Edited by BBsquid
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44 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

All ships are easier to spot, there's no conspiracy.

There's always a conspiracy. If you say there isn't, it's because you're part of it. 

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52 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

How do you connect the subs with the stealth/vision nerf brought on with 8.0? Not being a smarta**, just trying to track the shower thinking.

I was thinking about how my Asashio is a shell of what it used to be since there are just so many planes around now it isn't nearly as able to sneak out and strike like it used to. I always considered it similar to the way I imagined that a sub would play in the game. Then it occurred to me about the subs in the H'ween described by WG a few times in their videos as "proof of concept" and then it made me wonder if the long game plans about the game might be to make room for a sub class by turning DDs into more of a supporting player of the fleet and less the solo hunter (which some DDs were better at than others.)

But that's just my brain wandering... nothing I've heard from WG directly says anything about it.

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1 hour ago, Squib_Surefire said:

So you are saying that there is going to be a DD rework?  After the disaster of the CV rework, do you think WG would go down that road again with another class, and after how many years development? 

You can count on it...this isn't WG's first rodeo...:Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, TheArc said:

Conspiracy theory? Maybe 8.0 made DDs easier to spot because it would give them more room in the meta to introduce subs as a stealthy hunter class, which some DDs were doing very well?

I donno... was just one of those "shower thoughts" things.

Everyone is perma-spotted now.

So, yeah...

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4 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Everyone is perma-spotted now. So, yeah...

Double CV fights are definitely worse than the singles, and I know it feels that way for a lot of folks, but that's hardly accurate for high conceal DDs who are smart enough to turn off their AA auto attack.

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2 hours ago, Gasboy said:

All ships are easier to spot, there's no conspiracy.

You're missing the point.  All surface ships are easier to spot. (those sneaky subs go underwater).  With the rework CVs will spot DDs, and both the CV and his team will sink them.  As the DDs go under they'll spot those submerged subs. :Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, TheArc said:

Conspiracy theory? Maybe 8.0 made DDs easier to spot because it would give them more room in the meta to introduce subs as a stealthy hunter class, which some DDs were doing very well?

I donno... was just one of those "shower thoughts" things.

I think the Pen changes to DDs was BECAUSE CVs were going to make it easier for them to be spotted and they wanted the DD pop something to be happy about.....

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14 minutes ago, TheArc said:

Double CV fights are definitely worse than the singles, and I know it feels that way for a lot of folks, but that's hardly accurate for high conceal DDs who are smart enough to turn off their AA auto attack.

Planes have RPF and track down all DDs at will. Doesn't matter if you hit the P key.

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1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

You're missing the point.  All surface ships are easier to spot. (those sneaky subs go underwater).  With the rework CVs will spot DDs, and both the CV and his team will sink them.  As the DDs go under they'll spot those submerged subs. :Smile_trollface:

Ha... well... kinda. DDs back in the day were the sub hunters... of course if the Italian navy comes out with the glass hulls... to see the old Italian navy... 

1 hour ago, jager_geist said:

Planes have RPF and track down all DDs at will. Doesn't matter if you hit the P key.

That would only spot one, plus that not a 1 point skill. Either way, I hope they undo it, I think it is pretty stupid. Though I dislike it for ships too ;)

56 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

as far as tin foil theories go, its not awful

LOL... perfect!

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3 hours ago, Squib_Surefire said:

So you are saying that there is going to be a DD rework?  After the disaster of the CV rework, do you think WG would go down that road again with another class, and after how many years development? 

"how many years of development"? Just how long ago was this game released? You say it as though this was a project which spanned a significant timeline to warrant that phrase. Has it been over 5 years? 10 years? Highly doubt it.

Back on topic. *puts on Gerard Butlers voice on 300*

This Is Wargaming

(with added sarcasm)

They will do what they want, how they want, if they want, with Premium vodka, and pickles and sausages. Terms and conditions don't apply. Thanks for agreeing to the small print. Please select CV's in picture for verification.

 

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     With all this CV excitement I forgot all about the subs.  My brain hurts and then my head will explode like a depth charge detonating.  There is actually an exploding head syndrome, and it's happened to me a few times.  Really wakes you up with a bang.

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14 hours ago, TheArc said:

Conspiracy theory? Maybe 8.0 made DDs easier to spot because it would give them more room in the meta to introduce subs as a stealthy hunter class, which some DDs were doing very well?

I donno... was just one of those "shower thoughts" things.

Thanks for injecting this into the forums, it is something else I have not thought of. +1

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14 hours ago, JCC45 said:

While DDs are easier to spot with the new CVs rework they are still hard to hit at range (if the DD driver is any good).

CAs &  CLs get spotted even earlier (especially with of the stealth nerf coming in at the same time as the rework) but are a lot easier to hit at range by BBs whose guns have a lot longer reach and hit a lot harder.  They are slower, turn slower, accelerate slower and most do not have smoke to hide in.

 

This may be true but will 10+ players shooting at you guess what even the most skilled DD captains can't dodge everything. That is not even the worst of it, DD's now can not fulfil their intended role. Can't spot can't engage the enemy, cant cap. What can a DD do Now? Hide in smoke and wait for the radar cruiser to get there to delete you.

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8 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

     With all this CV excitement I forgot all about the subs.  My brain hurts and then my head will explode like a depth charge detonating.  There is actually an exploding head syndrome, and it's happened to me a few times.  Really wakes you up with a bang.

I really had wished there was PVP back at H'ween with the subs. I would've loved to drop depth charges on em! My old man was on the Dewey in Nam, so I'm a bit biased ;)

8 hours ago, T1mb3rWo1f said:

Thanks for injecting this into the forums, it is something else I have not thought of. +1

Glad you enjoyed the theory crafting! ;)

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BarronRichthofen said:

This may be true but will 10+ players shooting at you guess what even the most skilled DD captains can't dodge everything. That is not even the worst of it, DD's now can not fulfil their intended role. Can't spot can't engage the enemy, cant cap. What can a DD do Now? Hide in smoke and wait for the radar cruiser to get there to delete you.

If you have 10+ ships in position to not only shoot at you but hit you reliably  then you have rushed up far too early and are seriously out of position.  

People seem to forget that the spotting situation regarding DDs works against the other team as well..  As always with this game you should let the other guys make the mistakes first.

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43 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

If you have 10+ ships in position to not only shoot at you but hit you reliably  then you have rushed up far too early and are seriously out of position. 

Riiiiiiiiiiiight? I'm not invulnerable! Things aren't balanced! Lame patch!

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Just now, Arctander2 said:

Riiiiiiiiiiiight? I'm not invulnerable! Things aren't balanced! Lame patch!

Maybe not quite so incendiary.

People need to learn how to adapt to the new meta (no one more so than me) that's all.  And that's is going to be impossible for the next month or two as the meta will shift constantly as the CV vs. Artillery Ship equation gets balanced. 

My biggest problem playing DDs (and why I gave up even trying) is that I cannot seem to control my impulse to rush in and grab that cap... which got me killed early every time.  And this was well before the rework.  I just had to come to the realisation that I am not a good DD player.

The problem now is that the skills that made someone a good DD player are no longer relevant.  New skills have to be learned and some people (like me) are either incapable of that or unwilling to wait for things to settle down and then figure out what they are and learn them.  They want things to go back to where they were and that is  not likely to happen.

 

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2 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

My biggest problem playing DDs (and why I gave up even trying) is that I cannot seem to control my impulse to rush in and grab that cap...The problem now is that the skills that made someone a good DD player are no longer relevant.  New skills have to be learned and some people (like me) are either incapable of that or unwilling to wait for things to settle down and then figure out what they are and learn them. (I agree with all this.)

The problem now is that the skills that made someone a good DD player are no longer relevant.  (I think that is a total exaggeration.)

I think what you've said is both spot on accurate, and totally out of proportion at the same time. Yes, the meta changed. Yes people need to adapt if they want to be good; and your self admitted lack of impulse control and unwillingness to adapt is YOUR own issue. I think the skill set is 95% the same, but that remaining 5% is drastically altered. Folks saying now that "everyone is spotted" are simply incorrect. They're forgetting how it was before if there were 2 CVs in a game (which is what happens about 90% of the time now.) Everyone was always spotted then too. Sure planes didn't often circle around keeping you spotted, but there were a LOT more planes in the air! If/when it gets to the point where one CV is more common, that significantly alters the risk of being spotted.

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